If, instead, the Grand Maester is Scum, they have the optionality of either (i) sabotaging the Cop if they think the investigation they will perform will be catastrophic (though this outs them), or (ii) letting the Cop make the investigation while arguing that them not being NK’ed isn’t necessarily definitive since like I said, you already have evidence that the Scum won’t necessarily shoot the Doctor. At the end of the day, the Scum know that there’s going to be investigations most nights until such time as the Council has shrunk to the point it needs to be reconstituted - they can only slow the process of investigation it seems to me (and the management of Coin also determines this). But if the execution of the slot holding the Doctor PR feels inevitable, they will certainly sabotage the Cop, who btw is a broadly TR’ed player in Datisi. I don’t think it’s net beneficial for us to do this.
House of the Dragon - Game Over!
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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Well we want the Cop to investigate. If we hand over the role of Doctor to a player that’s Scummy (which, if they’re broadly viewed as Scum, they’re probably decently likely to be Scum, or at least I would give it a > random chance, though I don’t know that this is a > 50% chance), and they’renotScum, they will protect the Cop and we get an investigation. Okay, that’s great. But I’m not convinced the Scum shoot there necessarily, solving the issue of having to sort them. They shot Lukewarm N1 and Luke was Town, and Junko was Grand Maester and was also Town, so you have some evidence that depending on the game circumstances, it will not be as straightforward as letting the Scum do the job for us.
If, instead, the Grand Maester is Scum, they have the optionality of either (i) sabotaging the Cop if they think the investigation they will perform will be catastrophic (though this outs them), or (ii) letting the Cop make the investigation while arguing that them not being NK’ed isn’t necessarily definitive since like I said, you already have evidence that the Scum won’t necessarily shoot the Doctor. At the end of the day, the Scum know that there’s going to be investigations most nights until such time as the Council has shrunk to the point it needs to be reconstituted - they can only slow the process of investigation it seems to me (and the management of Coin also determines this). But if the execution of the slot holding the Doctor PR feels inevitable, they will certainly sabotage the Cop, who btw is a broadly TR’ed player in Datisi. I don’t think it’s net beneficial for us to do this.-
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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On the other hand, if you give Grand Maester to a Towny slot, and they’re Town (which, decently good odds and probably > 50%), if the investigation the Cop will make is catastrophic to the Scum, they can’t do anything to stop it. That’s a lot of upside you’re giving up for not necessarily sorting the Scummy slot.-
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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Like the logic for the PRs in the Council I strongly feel should be: give coin to Cop, protect Cop, get results (and profit). By taking any actions that may derail this, I feel we’re putting ourselves at a disadvantage. The Scum can always outsmart the Town if we give them optionality because they have more information than we do, but they can’t go around investigations.-
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Enchant Survivor
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Okay example:In post 3466, Andresvmb wrote:
Scenario 2: You allocate Grand Maester (to me again), but you allocate Master of Whisperers to Datisi as the Hand. Okay, I get shot. So Lord Commander + Grand Maester up for grabs, and one player (Datisi) holds two PRs. You now have 2 roles to distribute, and everyone in the Council but Datisi can get an additional PR (3 players). How is this not strictly better than the situation above?
You get Grand Maester.
Firebringer get Master of Whisperers.
And for Example Datisi dies.
Now Cop can go only in hands of Johhnny or Andante.
Giving another investigative to already investigative is silly. It depends really ifyou can multitask, but regardless it's silly.
It's also stupid to give Datisi power of Doctor as he can't nurse self.Wizard-Mercenary
You need replacement/players ASAP? PM me! I almost always accept.-
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Enchant Survivor
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maybe she will stop doing it if i keep pointing it out to her.In post 3468, VP Baltar wrote:I don't understand why you're bringing it up unless you think andante is scummy.Show"You are the Joker of mafia players" - Oversoul
"last time I was scum with Firebringer
his first post in the scum PT was "yes I rolled scum!"
I decided to post "haha just don't post that in the main thread", but to get up to date on the main thread first.
His first post in the main thread was "yes I rolled scum!" -popsofctown-
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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If I do my job right, Datisi never dies. Otherwise I’m likely Scum and you should execute me.In post 3479, Enchant wrote:
Okay example:In post 3466, Andresvmb wrote:
Scenario 2: You allocate Grand Maester (to me again), but you allocate Master of Whisperers to Datisi as the Hand. Okay, I get shot. So Lord Commander + Grand Maester up for grabs, and one player (Datisi) holds two PRs. You now have 2 roles to distribute, and everyone in the Council but Datisi can get an additional PR (3 players). How is this not strictly better than the situation above?
You get Grand Maester.
Firebringer get Master of Whisperers.
And for Example Datisi dies.
Now Cop can go only in hands of Johhnny or Andante.
Giving another investigative to already investigative is silly. It depends really ifyou can multitask, but regardless it's silly.
It's also stupid to give Datisi power of Doctor as he can't nurse self.
I honestly do not know and we would need to check if the Town can multi-task, but I’m still not seeing your point. Why is giving an investigative to a player that has an investigative silly? If anything, if the Master of Coin for whatever reason is unable to provide sufficient Coin to activate the Cop, but can activate the Tracker (without damaging the long-term prospects of using the Cop on future Nights too much), then why wouldn’t you want exactly that? Particularly since the Doctor as we know is already very likely to be sitting on that player? And this is even if the Town cannot multi-task.
Yes you never give the Doctor to the Cop but that’s obvious.-
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Andresvmb He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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And you don’t know this, only the Master of Coin truly knows the money and debts of the Crown. You’re speculating, and even if your assumption was true, it still strikes me as well since we’re unlikely to make use of the role, we shouldn’t have it. When, that makes no sense to me. Why not have it, in case we get to a point where we can make use of it + the Cop? That’s very unclear to me.In post 3480, Enchant wrote:If we really need Tracker for some reason some day, always can grant it again.
But why holding this position now? It's unlikely we will give it money instead of Cop.-
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Firebringer Trail Blazer
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mod confirmed people can multitask.In post 3479, Enchant wrote:Giving another investigative to already investigative is silly. It depends really if you can multitask, but regardless it's silly.
giving dats tracker is not a bad idea. they are going to get docced anyways.
Hell give me doc and give dats investigative.
I doubt scum kill me just because im too controversial so i can freely doc dats and he double invests.
Perfect win winShow"You are the Joker of mafia players" - Oversoul
"last time I was scum with Firebringer
his first post in the scum PT was "yes I rolled scum!"
I decided to post "haha just don't post that in the main thread", but to get up to date on the main thread first.
His first post in the main thread was "yes I rolled scum!" -popsofctown-
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Firebringer Trail Blazer
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enough mechanic shenanigans.
johnny where u at and whats going onShow"You are the Joker of mafia players" - Oversoul
"last time I was scum with Firebringer
his first post in the scum PT was "yes I rolled scum!"
I decided to post "haha just don't post that in the main thread", but to get up to date on the main thread first.
His first post in the main thread was "yes I rolled scum!" -popsofctown-
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Titus She/herMoon WalkerShe/her
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I haven't read mech. Don't care to after 12 hour days. Let's murder someone.ShowThe scum had the misfortune of Titus being absurdly accurate on day one.Really quite impressed by that.~Drixx
You're letting Titus win the game by herself.Good luck now I guess.You have no chance to win.~Tywin
GTKTitus Part 2
Titus Academy
VLA Friday nights until Sunday morning.
All hail the Scum Empress!-
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Thestatusquo He/HimSheaHe/Him
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I'm catching back up and I agree with this. It doesn't feel like a fake catchup post, but I am incredibly biased towards townreading effort so I need to be a little careful about that.In post 3412, GuiltyLion wrote:I like Dann's re-entry into the game, especially his Titus read and overall theories and views. Makes me feel a lot better about him again.
But it's not just effort, I myself yesterday was kind of musing in my head about going over all the people who have received votes for king and thinking that there has to be at least one scum in that pool.tout comprendre c'est tout pardonner-
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tinfoil theory of VPB scum.In post 3487, Thestatusquo wrote:But it's not just effort, I myself yesterday was kind of musing in my head about going over all the people who have received votes for king and thinking that there has to be at least one scum in that pool.Show"You are the Joker of mafia players" - Oversoul
"last time I was scum with Firebringer
his first post in the scum PT was "yes I rolled scum!"
I decided to post "haha just don't post that in the main thread", but to get up to date on the main thread first.
His first post in the main thread was "yes I rolled scum!" -popsofctown-
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Andante SheSurvivorShe
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yall auto tr effort? it's not hard to write up an essay of thoughts as scum... cause you draft it up, you read it over, go "ok I'll change this this and this, hmm sounds good" and especially twisting it into a "story" Dann is very aware of how he looks here.. the actual content in it was just meh, so I'm not sure why yall LOVE it-
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Andante SheSurvivorShe
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Not gonna lie, Dann is reminding me so much of scum!gamma from invictus...
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=89500-
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Titus She/herMoon WalkerShe/her
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Who are you voting Adante?ShowThe scum had the misfortune of Titus being absurdly accurate on day one.Really quite impressed by that.~Drixx
You're letting Titus win the game by herself.Good luck now I guess.You have no chance to win.~Tywin
GTKTitus Part 2
Titus Academy
VLA Friday nights until Sunday morning.
All hail the Scum Empress!-
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Enchant Survivor
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Fine?In post 3482, Andresvmb wrote:
If I do my job right, Datisi never dies. Otherwise I’m likely Scum and you should execute me.In post 3479, Enchant wrote:
Okay example:In post 3466, Andresvmb wrote:
Scenario 2: You allocate Grand Maester (to me again), but you allocate Master of Whisperers to Datisi as the Hand. Okay, I get shot. So Lord Commander + Grand Maester up for grabs, and one player (Datisi) holds two PRs. You now have 2 roles to distribute, and everyone in the Council but Datisi can get an additional PR (3 players). How is this not strictly better than the situation above?
You get Grand Maester.
Firebringer get Master of Whisperers.
And for Example Datisi dies.
Now Cop can go only in hands of Johhnny or Andante.
Giving another investigative to already investigative is silly. It depends really ifyou can multitask, but regardless it's silly.
It's also stupid to give Datisi power of Doctor as he can't nurse self.
I honestly do not know and we would need to check if the Town can multi-task, but I’m still not seeing your point. Why is giving an investigative to a player that has an investigative silly? If anything, if the Master of Coin for whatever reason is unable to provide sufficient Coin to activate the Cop, but can activate the Tracker (without damaging the long-term prospects of using the Cop on future Nights too much), then why wouldn’t you want exactly that? Particularly since the Doctor as we know is already very likely to be sitting on that player? And this is even if the Town cannot multi-task.
Yes you never give the Doctor to the Cop but that’s obvious.
If mod confirmed multitask then fine, but having all investigative power on one person is not really cool.Wizard-Mercenary
You need replacement/players ASAP? PM me! I almost always accept.-
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Thestatusquo He/HimSheaHe/Him
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And I agree with this too, though I don't feel as strongly about it as you do, because I think it was pretty clear that the assumption was there had to be a serious scum candidate for king, which was, again, a thought I was mulling over in my head myself yesterday, so I guess I vibe with it more than you do.In post 3415, Datisi wrote:i think the thing that most confuses me about dannflor's post/case here is that he spent a lot of time writing out associates with lld and the wagons, but very little writing out why lld is actually scum. the reasoning for her mechanical analysis being lamist and the weirdness in pushing unowen is *fine*, but i don't think it makes for a read he feels so strongly about. he said himself he's gonna explain those reads later, but why not explain it now?
bleh, as i type this, i'm less sure it's scummy, but i don't get it
other than why is unowen scum (which i already asked about in the supporters pt but might as well answer here), i don't get what makes titus scummy. she's been coasty and she voted dwlee, but i feel like scum does one or the other, not both. well, experienced scum does, which titus is.
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3370 makes me wanna kashoot myself
gl voted dwlee after that and why would scum-gl who's busing jump from the bus onto the very uncertain cw on enchant and just WHY
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that's the part i liked the least... you think titus is likely scum here?In post 3412, GuiltyLion wrote:I like Dann's re-entry into the game,especially his Titus readand overall theories and views. Makes me feel a lot better about him again.
I do wish there had been more analysis of dwlee associatives in particular but I do think that Dann's point: That LLD completely and deliberately avoided day 2 in a way which made it so there are no associatives in either direction, isn't exactly a point in her favor.
I too am sympathetic to it being difficult to get back into this game. Reading the 8 pages in this thread and knowing theres probably a similar number in the king pt and the small council PT is still making me feel some type of way, but I also do think its fair to say that this disengagement DOES make it hard to read into any associations with the flip, and could have been done deliberately. I think even LLD would grant that if she looked at a similar slot in a similar situation that she would at least consider that possibility if it weren't her slot.tout comprendre c'est tout pardonner-
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Titus She/herMoon WalkerShe/her
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Either we let the king just handle it or overthrow the king.
Let's play mafia.ShowThe scum had the misfortune of Titus being absurdly accurate on day one.Really quite impressed by that.~Drixx
You're letting Titus win the game by herself.Good luck now I guess.You have no chance to win.~Tywin
GTKTitus Part 2
Titus Academy
VLA Friday nights until Sunday morning.
All hail the Scum Empress!-
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Andante SheSurvivorShe
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UNO the mafia, who none of these people apparently want to vote, even though no one can give a reason to tr, so it kinda half has me thinking UNO might just be town, and scum knows UNO town, which is why they're not going there with me, but it's just odd, like, everyone is all "I can't give a single reason to TR" (except uno is a top tr for dann??) yeah...In post 3491, Titus wrote:Who are you voting Adante?
I'll probably flip to Dann though, cause if UNO is town, I think Dann TMI'd that with the top tr thing-
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i agree with andante on this tho
VOTE: UnowenShow"You are the Joker of mafia players" - Oversoul
"last time I was scum with Firebringer
his first post in the scum PT was "yes I rolled scum!"
I decided to post "haha just don't post that in the main thread", but to get up to date on the main thread first.
His first post in the main thread was "yes I rolled scum!" -popsofctown-
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Andante SheSurvivorShe
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like, people are going "WHY NOT JOHNNY??" VP went "you can't give a single reason to tr johnny??" like, why are yall going after the PRs? Johnny called the dwlee wagon an apathy wagon, do yall seriously think johnny says that about his partner? like, his approach to that didn't seem scummy to me? so like, VP, why are you trying to use what I've been saying for UNO for Johnny?? I could find a lot more towny things about johnny than I could UNO, yet no one wants to talk about UNO...-
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Thestatusquo He/HimSheaHe/Him
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Do you town read Johnny? If so, why?
tout comprendre c'est tout pardonner-
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Andante SheSurvivorShe
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