House of the Dragon - Game Over!

[mastina]

You arrogantly act as if your solve is the only solve that matters and your world is the only one which is true but it's not.

You're literally saying what you're doing.

You're acting like YOUR solve is the only one which matters, ignoring the fucking evidence which shows why it's a shitty ass idea to satiate YOUR paranoia and yours alone.

[mastina]

In what world does a scum team comprised of some variety of me/GuiltyLion/Enchant/furtive/Drapion/Roden ever kill Firebringer? In what world does that happen???

In the world where scum killed Lukewarm the holder of the tracker, MathBlade the holder of the tracker, and Andresvmp the holder of the tracker, when Firebringer holds the tracker now?

[Firebringer]

i think the andres was a good scum kill actually

[mastina]

See I think wolves be manipulating cause like I think it’s fucking stupid to vote Dat XyLo or day before XyLo cause we could have already resolved everything and be in a way better position before.

Well as it so happens, with 13 instead of 12 alive, the day before lylo isn't for two days, with lylo a full

three

days away.

We can wait until 11p.

[mastina]

Dat said Lady is Town in case you missed it.

Yes? Where the fuck is the idea I'm saying otherwise coming from? What are you reading giving you that impression.

Lady LambdaDelta is town.

Her followers are not. (Especially since at least one or two of them

are convinced she was scum with Datisi

and have not corrected that narrative in spite of the evidence to it.)

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Trial by Combat

Seeing the flash clear from the Arena, the crowd was stunned to find both combatants completely unharmed.

After the clown exited from the Arena, a new challenger arrived - FG Tarly stood six foot five, a man who had learned the way of sword and chivalry from the age of three, been knighted before his eighth nameday and fought in dozens of tourneys in his lifetime.

He raised his sword toward the Magician standing at the center of the Arena in a challenge.

I don't know where the hell you think you're from but I am the Lord of the Horned Hills.

My sire and my grandsire ruled over these lands and my sons will rule after I am gone.

I see your flaming sword and fancy words but that doesn't mean anything where I come from.

My House Words are "First in Battle", sure I got beat to it by some random clown but I'm not sure ya'all actually fought.

Enchant smiles and turns to him. He drops his sword into the sandy floor and raise his arms up into the air.

Seven massive columns of flame burst out from all around him, swirling into the air. The heat from the sudden firestorm turns the arena uncomfortably hot.

Each column turns its head towards Lord Tarly, the flames coalescing into hydra heads each as large than an ox.

Seven flaming heads turn towards Lord Tarly and they roar as one - the sound deafening in the air.

He quickly thinks better of it and runs as quickly from the arena as possible

Duel Result: Noone died

[Enchant]

You can't do shit on me.

[Roden]

Probably the same world where everyone was approaching Luke with pitchforks and then scum killed him anyway

im telling u this tracker role has some sort of hidden mechanic that scum don't want town to have.
Maybe it will give me wings like red bull

Tbh it kinda feels like this is true.

Either that or Tracker can expose the secret scum abilities.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Execution Vote Day Five

With thirteen players alive - it will require seven votes to eliminate a player.

FurtiveGlance [5]:

Firebringer, Datisi, fireisredsir, mastina, ProfessorDrapion

Datisi [2]:

Lady Lambdadelta, GuiltyLion,

Firebringer [1]:

furtiveglance

Not Voting [5]:

Enchant, Roden, thestatusquo, Titus, Unowen,

Execution Deadline: (expired on 2022-12-22 21:58:35)

[Roden]

OK it feels really fucking off that the duels won't kill off any of the scummy slots but managed to kill the only obvtown slot who signed up

Like...our RNG can't be

that

bad. Statistically the rolls should've been in our favor.

[Enchant]

Imagine if mafia can't lose them as special ability.

[Enchant]

That would be WILD

[Roden]

Is there anything in the lore where somebody would fix fights so a certain person would win? Because scum could legit have that as an ability.

[Roden]

Flavor

Mathblade worked feverishly at the table over dozens of ingredients, so many back orders needed to be made, Junkochan really left things a mess when she left.

Meeting with the spies at night through the evening, meeting with the small council throughout the day, he had barely any time left over to sleep yet he was expected to be the local CVS pharmacy too.

He deserved raise but that miserly purple pokemon would only go "arf arf" when asked for more money. Maybe he should just go on strike - show them how much they all needed him.

Realizing he couldn't really get tonight's orders done without pulling another all nighter, the old man took a swig out of the caffeine bottle, suddenly he felt incredibly alert - like he could do anything. Yes Yes YEEEEEEES!

Mathblade was killed on Night Two. He was aligned with the

Town

King Shea must assign the following powers today before end of day:

Grand Maester
Master of Whisperers

With seventeen players alive - it will require nine votes to eliminate a player.

Execution Deadline: (expired on 2022-12-08 14:58:35)

Flavor

A trial by combat is a means by which a party can prove their innocence when accused of a crime in the Seven Kingdoms. In lieu of a standard trial where a lord - or a council of them - hears testimony from the involved parties and makes a ruling, one or all parties may choose the option of a trial by combat.

Only highborn noblemen have the right to request a trial by combat: smallfolk do not possess this right. Noblewomen apparently also have the right to request a trial by combat but are not expected to fight themselves.

If a highborn is accused of a crime, at any point during the trial held by the local lord he can demand his right to a trial by combat. This right is held to be so inviolable that even a lord that is fully convinced that the accused should die would be hesitant to simply deny such a request (if it is made in public, at least). Even members of the royal family or high officials such as the Hand of the King would feel incapable of denying the request if it was made publicly.

In a trial by combat the accused may represent themselves in combat or, if unable (such as if they are female, injured, crippled, a dwarf, or otherwise incapacitated), may ask for a champion to represent them. The presiding lord may, at least, demand that they pick a champion from currently available warriors, i.e. instead of allowing them to name a champion currently located on the far side of Westeros, attempting to try to delay the trial by weeks.

A trial by combat does not, necessarily, need to be fought to the death. It is fought until one man yields - though if the accused is representing himself he would fight to the death to avoid a certain execution, and even the champion of an accused man will often fight to the death due to potential reward from the accused if he wins. The fight can also end if the accuser withdraws the accusation, or the accused confesses.

The victorious party is held to have had his or her case judged fairly by the gods (be it the Seven, the Old Gods of the Forest, or whatever they worship) and has proven their innocence in the eyes of the gods. Hence, if the accused party is victorious, they are cleared of all charges. If the accused or their champion is defeated, however, then they are considered guilty and condemned to death. While in theory the gods will favor the righteous party, most often the winner tends to simply be the strongest, the quickest, or just the luckiest.

Trial by Combat Rules

A player may challenge any other player to trial by combat during the day. If it is accepted - the players will gather their weapons and fight to the

death

until reasonably satisfied. [There is a 5% chance of either player dying in a trial]

Only two trials may occur on each day. First come first served.

Challenge other players by typing in the thread

Challenge: Target

, accept challenges with

Accept Challenge

and quoting the challenging post.

I forgot duels weren't actually available at day start, a bit of time passed first. I think we were all too weirded out by the sudden RNG death mechanic to notice that.

I think the duels might actually be a scum ability. I don't think the delayed start to the mechanic is a mod error, because I think we would just be informed if it was.

[Firebringer]

okay i formulated a somewhat intelligible mechanic + reads reason dats can't go and ill give it a shot to sway away any possible dats voters:

its built around a few premises but here go:
1) dats is very unlikely scum here by play. For a variety of reasons I can lay out in detail. One was the shit push from dwlee on dats, which doesn't look like scum distancing. I also don't think dann/dats interactions look all buddying either. But I can also go into how dats is solving and pushing game forward constantly and attempting to solve. I don't think dats has any scum motivations i can see in posts and no one i can tell has really laid any out. The most i get is "im worried of world of dats!scum" im still waiting on a coherent scum case of dats that isn't just "well what if scum".

If you ignore or at least accept that the probability of dats flipping scum is at least below 50%.
2) What does killing dats accomplish?
For LLD its a big benefit because she reanalyzes both Titus/Mastina. To me these are both cleared in a scum!Datisi world. Less so for Titus but I am still 70-80% thinking her reaction to the clear was very townie.
She thinks it will help with furtive? I don't think so. I think dats scum flip still could mean furtive scum flip. If datisi is planning to deep wolf this game why not buss furtive as well? Kill more allies who aren't being townie enough get even greater towncred. Does he need it? Probably given how people are desperate to lim him for just paranoia. So how is furtive cleared on purely interactions between the two? I don't think he is at all.

Look at furtive by play. I don't see town there. And if your biggest case is interactions with datisi. You got a nothing burger to me.
I understand in my less than 50% scum dats world we have to do quite a bit of rethinking of a few things and maybe another council is scum. That would dramatically shift some items for our game view and solve.

3) If we kill say town dats here. (assuming it flips town). This is what happens - we would 100% have to guard Titus to ensure a check goes through. That also means scum are free to kill anyone but Titus. We are ensuring scum will get a kill at night.
Lets say we keep dats alive. Dats performs a check UNPROTECTED. Then scum make the choice. Do they allow town!dats to get ANOTHER clear, or go for an already clear/council when they could be protected and we could stop ANOTHER kill. If scum go for dats, good the debate is settled. They won't but its settled. And we get another chance to stop some night kill and dats freely gets another check.

To me risk/reward analyzing this. The marginal benefit i get from clearing my 5-6% doubt on Datisi, doesn't overcome the benefit of just having another free check from him. Then limming tomorrow to confirm all the clears.

This calculations im making is all based on my assessment of how strong i townread Datisi, but I think i would come to this same conclusion even if I was at a more likely than not 51-55% feeling on dats.
This also relates to unclearing LLD/Titus/Mastina on Dats flip. Actually doesn't change my read on them other than going from 99.99% cleared in my head now to like an average 80% clear.

So the net benefit. As how I see it, isn't that outstanding to do so today. I think we could still stop a kill tonight. I think we could get another clear from dats. Having 3 clears and maybe guilty tomorrow or 4 clears from dats. GOOD STUFF. Please do it.

[Firebringer]

okay i formulated a somewhat intelligible mechanic + reads reason dats can't go and ill give it a shot to sway away any possible dats voters:

its built around a few premises but here go:
1) dats is very unlikely scum here by play. For a variety of reasons I can lay out in detail. One was the shit push from dwlee on dats, which doesn't look like scum distancing. I also don't think dann/dats interactions look all buddying either. But I can also go into how dats is solving and pushing game forward constantly and attempting to solve. I don't think dats has any scum motivations i can see in posts and no one i can tell has really laid any out. The most i get is "im worried of world of dats!scum" im still waiting on a coherent scum case of dats that isn't just "well what if scum".

If you ignore or at least accept that the probability of dats flipping scum is at least below 50%.
2) What does killing dats accomplish?
For LLD its a big benefit because she reanalyzes both Titus/Mastina. To me these are both cleared in a scum!Datisi world. Less so for Titus but I am still 70-80% thinking her reaction to the clear was very townie.
She thinks it will help with furtive? I don't think so. I think dats scum flip still could mean furtive scum flip. If datisi is planning to deep wolf this game why not buss furtive as well? Kill more allies who aren't being townie enough get even greater towncred. Does he need it? Probably given how people are desperate to lim him for just paranoia. So how is furtive cleared on purely interactions between the two? I don't think he is at all.

Look at furtive by play. I don't see town there. And if your biggest case is interactions with datisi. You got a nothing burger to me.
I understand in my less than 50% scum dats world we have to do quite a bit of rethinking of a few things and maybe another council is scum. That would dramatically shift some items for our game view and solve.

3) If we kill say town dats here. (assuming it flips town). This is what happens - we would 100% have to guard Titus to ensure a check goes through. That also means scum are free to kill anyone but Titus. We are ensuring scum will get a kill at night.
Lets say we keep dats alive. Dats performs a check UNPROTECTED. Then scum make the choice. Do they allow town!dats to get ANOTHER clear, or go for an already clear/council when they could be protected and we could stop ANOTHER kill. If scum go for dats, good the debate is settled. They won't but its settled. And we get another chance to stop some night kill and dats freely gets another check.

To me risk/reward analyzing this. The marginal benefit i get from clearing my 5-6% doubt on Datisi, doesn't overcome the benefit of just having another free check from him. Then limming tomorrow to confirm all the clears.

This calculations im making is all based on my assessment of how strong i townread Datisi, but I think i would come to this same conclusion even if I was at a more likely than not 51-55% feeling on dats.
This also relates to unclearing LLD/Titus/Mastina on Dats flip. Actually doesn't change my read on them other than going from 99.99% cleared in my head now to like an average 80% clear.

So the net benefit. As how I see it, isn't that outstanding to do so today. I think we could still stop a kill tonight. I think we could get another clear from dats. Having 3 clears and maybe guilty tomorrow or 4 clears from dats. GOOD STUFF. Please do it.

[Roden]

Firebringer, what possible reason does scum have to let town!Datisi bring five conftown into ELO?

[Roden]

Also why wouldn't a scum Cop want to keep the role to themself and out of town hands? That alone is a benefit for scum!Datisi. Even better is that a scum flip means we have zero conftown going into ELO, that sounds like a good trade to me.

[Firebringer]

i am wondering how much i should engage in this.

I think the evidence here that scum aren't affraid of dats clears is self evident that neither mastina/Titus have been attacked and datisi is alive. So we are in two worlds:
1) Scum don't care because Datisi is scum.
2) Scum don't care because they think can just mislim datisi through the paranoia

I am more in 2 than 1. if you are less than 50% on dats town then fine. But im not going to argue the mechanics of this really. I just want to hear what actions Dats himself has taken that is actually scummy. Not these hypothetical what could and will possibly happen.

[Roden]

I don't think scum have their entire wincon ride on the hope we paranoia mis-elim the single most difficult-to-elim player in the game. You're gonna have to explain the logistics on that one because I don't see it.

[Enchant]

Datisi

yawn

[Enchant]

I wanted to vote and linked instead

Please pretend it's vote

[furtiveglance]

Here's an argument and a desperate self pres vote:

Datisi town flip: We have 3 confirmed Town, max 1 dies in the night
Datisi scum flip: We have 1 dead Mafia (good in itself), and we know that he (probably) tried to clear 1 other Mafia (looking at LLD)

Me town flip: wow he was a bad player, get better furtiveglance (even though I literally voted for both flipped scum and put my life on the line TWICE idk what you want from me at this point)
Me scum flip: This would actually be good for town if it was possible because you could probably clear several slots as town (Enchant/Firebringer at least)

VOTE: Datisi

[UNOwen]

VOTE: Datisi

[furtiveglance]

But you should strongly consider my arguments from a mechanical lens and a "what loses us the game" lens and playing around it.

Yes what loses us the game is eliminating a fucking conftown by eliminating Datisi.

Yo

You're not doing much to convince me by swearing and saying 'conftown'.

Your reasons:
1) You townread Datisi by play - fine, that's an opinion
2) 'Last night' - I don't know what happened last night. This will mean nothing to me until you explain what happened and how that makes the whole council town