Open 869 | Fight for the Winter Court [Game Over!]

[absinthe]

There's not much I want to say right now that wouldn't be better to hold off until day 2.

I'll entertain questions, though.

[Faker]

Sure, so first: What happened in Montaigne’s library on the night of October 23, 1587, and why should political philosophers care?

[Coral]

cat can you make sounds like these real fast maybe we can get her to look at her computer on a Saturday

I think that's still not allowed for a bit longer

[Coral]

I realize that you might not have known demona went to the wall, but I’m curious about your thoughts there. I’m on record as having a town read on demona. It’s the only read I’ve unequivocally stated. I’ve mentioned a suspicion of you. Now I know my reads can change quite a lot, especially overnight, but your thought there that you’d be the decider doesn’t line up with the thoughts I’ve given.

I'm not sure exactly why absinthe didn't clarify this, and focused more on the reads portion, but the way I interpreted the original post was that she was saying that she would be the decider due to being the consensus scumread among the Keep players (scummiest person decides is the standard Keep play). Which I think does line up with what you're saying here.

It feels meaningful, somehow, that absinthe focused on analyzing your reads portion of this rather than clearing up what looks to me like a misunderstanding. But maybe I'm the one misunderstanding something here?

I'm pretty sure I already expressed this thought well before Tempest's post, so that doesn't appear to be what needs clarification.

How do you interpret her saying:

1) she townreads demona
2) she mentioned a suspicion of you
2) therefore, you being the decider doesn't line up with the thoughts she's given

That seems to directly imply that, regardless of her reads and whether she stated them earlier or not, she thinks that her suspicion of you is incompatible with you being the decider, no?

[Faker]

grumble grumble stupid deeply held religious beliefs that i respect but are mildly inconvenient because i don't get to talk to my friend in my internet game grumble grumble

[Coral]

Historical detective work and philosophical reflection sounds like fun

[Faker]

Sounds gross

[absinthe]

I realize that you might not have known demona went to the wall, but I’m curious about your thoughts there. I’m on record as having a town read on demona. It’s the only read I’ve unequivocally stated. I’ve mentioned a suspicion of you. Now I know my reads can change quite a lot, especially overnight, but your thought there that you’d be the decider doesn’t line up with the thoughts I’ve given.

I'm not sure exactly why absinthe didn't clarify this, and focused more on the reads portion, but the way I interpreted the original post was that she was saying that she would be the decider due to being the consensus scumread among the Keep players (scummiest person decides is the standard Keep play). Which I think does line up with what you're saying here.

It feels meaningful, somehow, that absinthe focused on analyzing your reads portion of this rather than clearing up what looks to me like a misunderstanding. But maybe I'm the one misunderstanding something here?

I'm pretty sure I already expressed this thought well before Tempest's post, so that doesn't appear to be what needs clarification.

How do you interpret her saying:

1) she townreads demona
2) she mentioned a suspicion of you
2) therefore, you being the decider doesn't line up with the thoughts she's given

That seems to directly imply that, regardless of her reads and whether she stated them earlier or not, she thinks that her suspicion of you is incompatible with you being the decider, no?

It's the nature of the Keep to me. Just like any other group of three, if Demona, Tammy and I had gone to the keep, then two of us know that we are individually town regardless of which of the other two are scum. And I feel like it comes down to me in that instance because I either am townreading Tammy into the stratosphere or I'm having a nervous breakdown over which of them is town. And if Tammy is town, then given her reads right now, she'd make the wrong choice in that threesome. I feel like it would fall on me one way or another. Tammy and I both waffle a LOT. But I'm pretty sure I'm more decisive than she is in the early game. In fortress, it's ALL early game from my perspective. But maybe I'm totally wrong about how it would play out. And when I was thinking that a Demona/Tammy/me Keep it looked to me like it would be easier than it does now. I really didn't expect her to straight up scumread me at this point. I'm not blaming her for the read. I'm fighting off some major tilt and I'm well aware it's bleeding into my play, but I'm still going to keep it light in this game.

That's was convoluted to write because of the layers of hypotheticals and my own re-thoughts based on Tammy's posts today.

At the moment I can't imagine being the player who is voted in the Keep. So my agency comes down to getting my reads right. Otherwise I'm putting the weight of the minigame on the other town player.

When town, Tammy really shines out as town IMO. We usually have a few bobbles and misinterpretations, but those bobbles almost always have resolved, usually the next time we interact.

I expected (and kinda still expect) us to eventually connect pretty well in this game if she's town. Despite Tammy's assertion that she's never in my top town reads, that's hasn't really been the case in our last few games. WH13, Diffusion, Tenet, all three of those games my read of her settled well before hers did of me (and in Diffusion she never expressed a townread of my hydra. Her hydra partner did). In all three of those games she was high tier town to me (in Tenet even before her hydra were mod confirmed town I was townreading them). We meet as hydras a lot and my partners' thoughts play into my reads of her, but often I'm the first to get there. The Smokefilled game probably deserves mention too, but the dethy had a huge impact on my reads. She was my second-highest townread in the dethy, starting very early on.

[absinthe]

I should also mention the first fortress game I played, because that's coloring my thoughts about the keep. Three fairly well townread players went to the keep on night 1. I was moved out to the gate and inno'd, and one of the least townread players in the game was moved in on night 1.

The moved player cast the first vote. On the scum player. The reasons why that minigame resolved when and how it did weren't great, but I do feel for that poor player and I hope I do better in similar-ish circumstances.

[Coral]

I feel like all of that kind of misses the point of what I was saying, but I'm not really sure it's an important point anyway, and I appreciate the thought process shared regardless.

[Faker]

aight well if game dead and everyone v/la i guess i'll take a bite outta chara and coral

but first i must get home...............

[Faker]

my eyes keep reading your icon as a delicious cookie. :<

maybe it is going to take a bite out of me instead actually

[Faker]

@Chara when you get back can you talk more about this progression?

to be honest, i have almost no idea of how any of you conduct yourselves as scum vs. as town. whatever meta i did have was tossed out of my brain when i stopped playing. i would say Faker is the only one i have some direction on how to read, and they're difficult regardless.

you people are all too good at mafia. who am i supposed to reliably read? just demona i suppose.

i do not want to be in a group with Prism and kitty, in the nightmare realm where kitty is scum i think i have a bad bad time.

It's unclear to me why you became more confident in your ability to read demona over time.

[Chara]

68 is irrelevant because it's about meta, 171 is my impression from demona of "this looks pretty town" rather than "i think i can read demona".

and 410 is my chara's folly trauma.

[catboi]

What are my strengths here, exactly? You sure you're not just taking my word for it?

to my mind anyway you'd rather hardpush someone over trying to make yourself look like the towniest town because there's the possibility people get paranoid and don't trust you and then you're hosed

[Chara]

the folly was mine. do you get it.

[Chara]

actually it is also partially a feeling of being able to read demona, but not because of meta, just because of intuition.

[Chara]

no one is online at the exact window i'm online. life is simply unfair, don't you think?

[Faker]

What are my strengths here, exactly? You sure you're not just taking my word for it?

to my mind anyway you'd rather hardpush someone over trying to make yourself look like the towniest town because there's the possibility people get paranoid and don't trust you and then you're hosed

I don't think this is true. I don't really excel at forcing through specific votes, especially lategame: Town players as individuals are too random. There's a reason I forced through Todoroki quickly in D&C. I'm much better at steering a collective, and I'm very good at becoming a universal townread. In that respect, Keep is very well-suited for my scumplay.

The drawbacks of Keep are twofold: 1) Players who know me, like those in this table, can simply make me the voter, and

then

I'm hosed and 2) I flip first most of the time, when I'm better utilized as an excellent clean up hitter with the potential to solo carry the longer the game goes and the more comfortable I get.

I used to prefer flipping first back in my EM days, and haven't gotten a chance to really show off some of that style on MS, but this has been a stylistic adaptation. I didn't have to put a lot of faith in my partners for them to be able to survive 5 minutes if I handed them the game on a silver platter, but that's not true on MS. Almost all of my games are me ultra-town solocarrying.

[Tempest]

absinthe - I certainly didn't expect to come out with a scum read on you so soon either. It's not a read I want to have, especially if it's wrong. I'm a little bit annoyed right now. Part of it is game related; part of it is not. It's been a long time since somebody who knows me has whiffed so hard on my opening mood. Perhaps that's partly a fault of my own. I couldn't be here when the game started, and when I did come into the game it was after an extremely long day and several days of little sleep. What I do know is that I was enjoying myself and was generally happy to be here even if I was exhausted. Getting scum read is whatever; it's just mildly annoying to be told you're anxious or scared when you're feeling calm and enjoying yourself for the most part. (And trying to beat back the part of me that low-key thinks some of the taunting was to purposefully tilt.)

The gamestate is annoying too. Perhaps it's just a function of this setup, and I just don't get that, but it just feels like we're all just sitting on our hands talking about the setup and I don't get it. Yes, I understand that people want to keep scum in the dark blah blah blah, but save for a few things, I just don't get that. Because to me, once we're all in 3p things get harder. What makes 3p so fucking hard is that scum and town are behaving in similar ways, but in a normal game there's a whole game's worth of game to go off of. But here there's nothing, just what we have today where people are just focusing on the setup or not saying anything much because they don't need to prove themselves town today or because they don't want scum to know their thoughts, which well whatever but I kinda think that sucks. Maybe I'll feel differently after I've played this setup, but it makes today annoying and I think it will make tomorrow even harder.

I also hate feeling like I'm speaking into a void. My thoughts and reads might not be great thoughts and reads, but I have had them, and save for a small bit here and there, they've gone mostly ignored. Like, we don't have to be online at the same time to interact, I've been open with what I'm thinking as I'm going along, and I'd welcome any comment on my reads/thoughts, disagreements, agreements, anything. I don't like feeling alone in a game. Maybe the reason for that is that everyone is deciding not to actually give thoughts today because it'd be better tomorrow and that's whatever.

Beyond that and not game related and probably affecting me the most is that I'm just fucking tired. I haven't been tolerating losing sleep all that well lately, and while I got decent sleep last night, it doesn't come close to making up for what I've done to it lately. I woke up annoyed and have been annoyed with every single thing I've done today.

I didn't write all this to sound like a big whining whiner. I just wanted to explain my mood and how it's affecting the way I'm thinking about and looking at the game. When I get into a mood like this, the part of me that waffles, overthinks, deals with the indecision and frets about being wrong on a friend doesn't exist. Or at least to the extent that it usually does. If I were in any other mood than I am right now, I'd probably not just come out with a scum read on you; I'm sure I'd handle my suspicion quite differently. My reads might be hilariously wrong, but right now I don't even care and I know that's not usually like me but it is what it is today. Maybe tomorrow I wake up and I'm back to my old self. But, I am really really sorry if you're town, and I'm just stupidly wrong here. I know how frustrating it is to have the town against you and one of the people you expect to read you right is not. I do want to get the read right; I do hope/think that I will, and I'm sorry if I'm being annoying about it.

[Faker]

68 is irrelevant because it's about meta, 171 is my impression from demona of "this looks pretty town" rather than "i think i can read demona".

and 410 is my chara's folly trauma.

actually it is also partially a feeling of being able to read demona, but not because of meta, just because of intuition.

Can you be more specific about where these feelings originate, if that is at all possible?

[Faker]

My thoughts and reads might not be great thoughts and reads, but I have had them, and save for a small bit here and there, they've gone mostly ignored.

I did review your posts from earlier. I've got my own parallel thoughts on absinthe, but it's hard to key into your experience with her in the same way that I'm betting its difficult to engage with mine.

I'm mostly waiting on skitter before I revisit her. I didn't have a lot to say about Chara/Coral before I read them, and while I've read Chara my thoughts are very meh. Coral is still a project because I'm out hunting for books to read over break.

[absinthe]

Tammy why do you think I whiffed my read of you?

[catboi]

What are my strengths here, exactly? You sure you're not just taking my word for it?

to my mind anyway you'd rather hardpush someone over trying to make yourself look like the towniest town because there's the possibility people get paranoid and don't trust you and then you're hosed

I don't think this is true. I don't really excel at forcing through specific votes, especially lategame: Town players as individuals are too random. There's a reason I forced through Todoroki quickly in D&C. I'm much better at steering a collective, and I'm very good at becoming a universal townread. In that respect, Keep is very well-suited for my scumplay.

The drawbacks of Keep are twofold: 1) Players who know me, like those in this table, can simply make me the voter, and

then

I'm hosed and 2) I flip first most of the time, when I'm better utilized as an excellent clean up hitter with the potential to solo carry the longer the game goes and the more comfortable I get.

I used to prefer flipping first back in my EM days, and haven't gotten a chance to really show off some of that style on MS, but this has been a stylistic adaptation. I didn't have to put a lot of faith in my partners for them to be able to survive 5 minutes if I handed them the game on a silver platter, but that's not true on MS. Almost all of my games are me ultra-town solocarrying.

idfk then i'm probably talking out my ass and didn't think that post through

[Faker]

I'll actually head home soon and see if there's something we can talk more indepth about, but I'm sorry that I've contributed to making you feel alone this game.

My jokes were intended to make you more comfortable and easygoing, even if I did scumread you at the time. That clearly had the opposite effect, but they were not in bad faith. They weren't there to demoralize you and hammer home that I thought you were scum so much as they were there to lower the stakes of the scumread and make it easier to deal with.