Open 869 | Fight for the Winter Court [Game Over!]

[Prism]

Spoiler: Chara do not click

[Faker]

Fuck I made it so long but I HAAAAAAAAD to see if N_M updated his Miltank thread yet

[catboi]

The gamestate is annoying too. Perhaps it's just a function of this setup, and I just don't get that, but it just feels like we're all just sitting on our hands talking about the setup and I don't get it. Yes, I understand that people want to keep scum in the dark blah blah blah, but save for a few things, I just don't get that. Because to me, once we're all in 3p things get harder. What makes 3p so fucking hard is that scum and town are behaving in similar ways, but in a normal game there's a whole game's worth of game to go off of. But here there's nothing, just what we have today where people are just focusing on the setup or not saying anything much because they don't need to prove themselves town today or because they don't want scum to know their thoughts, which well whatever but I kinda think that sucks. Maybe I'll feel differently after I've played this setup, but it makes today annoying and I think it will make tomorrow even harder.

I want to address this because I feel like 733 gets at the root of this - in that game as scum, my team was very eager to feed into the town's confirmation bias in order to set things up for Day 2. We didn't start the attack on the player we sent to the keep but I think we fueled the fire knowing it would benefit us. To that end I've been really cautious about not trying to make hasty conclusions.

Relatedly, I thought your entrance to the game was scummy because you seemed to be awkwardly trying to fit in whilst making comments that were mostly not relevant to fguring out people's alignments, but rather than presenting it as an explicit opinion I just questioned you on it and decided to back off. You were getting enough heat from elsewhere and I saw no need to pile on. I think in the time since you've improved which makes me feel like I was right to leave you to your own devices

In a world where you're town I think it's

probable

scum opted to feed into that narrative against you because scum need scapegoats in this setup and if they saw someone struggling to integrate themselves into the game they would very likely pounce on that - that's what I would do, at any rate.

But also now at this point I am in fact struggling to identify scum because most people feel towny to me. I've sort of been trying to shift to a more questioning play mode rather than being a purely passive spectator now but I don't have a lot of confidence in most reads right now which would make them pretty useless to talk about. I still feel like info is being generated from conversations

I also hate feeling like I'm speaking into a void. My thoughts and reads might not be great thoughts and reads, but I have had them, and save for a small bit here and there, they've gone mostly ignored. Like, we don't have to be online at the same time to interact, I've been open with what I'm thinking as I'm going along, and I'd welcome any comment on my reads/thoughts, disagreements, agreements, anything. I don't like feeling alone in a game. Maybe the reason for that is that everyone is deciding not to actually give thoughts today because it'd be better tomorrow and that's whatever.

I have seen you making guesses at scum I just...don't have a ton to add to that, sorry. I look at your points and say "hm could be" but I don't think it's a certainty or anything like that.

[Chara]

Spoiler: Chara do not click

[catboi]

i'm going to conclude kitty is scum regardless of what grouping he ends up in, just watch.

You're jinxing me to be the IC just watch

[Isis]

I'm exhausted I can't believe I voluntarily subjected myself to like 23 games of Pokemon

[Faker]

That is what happens when you keep winning

[Isis]

I was for a long time X-1 until I needed to lose 2/2 remaining matches to not make day 2 so that's what I did of course

[Isis]

Everyone believes in my ability to win at pokemon more than me except like a large number of people at my locals I kinda sense it

[Isis]

I read some between rounds so maybe I can catch up while I drink at this bar.
I'm very dehydrated but I'll drink enough water (I won't)

[Isis]

A lot of the posts I was trying to read were a bit too hard to follow like if the a goes to b goes to c but b is c and b should go wall etc
We need more mafia gaemplay

[Isis]

Possibly it's like not possible to unless you blow up this phase like catboi said

[Faker]

I think despite how much I've tilted Tempest this game we both agree absinthe should be shot into the sun, so there's that

cat is close

[Isis]

I'm actually not sure catboi's hypothesis that mechanical hell can't damage dayplay in a short deadline game is true. I think mechanically degraded dayplay doesn't actually have to do with phase length and had to do with how much people have to spend time in headspace doing math assuming people are town or like just how much they can't think about scumhunting until later even if they have a green rolecard and then they are harder to distinguish from a red rolecard

[absinthe]

I think despite how much I've tilted Tempest this game we both agree absinthe should be shot into the sun, so there's that

cat is close

I'm going to just close my eyes and vote catboi. What could go wrong?

[Coral]

It is somewhat hard to have normal mafia gameplay even in the event that we were discussing reads more freely than we are, due to the lack of votes or wagons or pressure.

The nice thing about tomorrow is that it really isn't much like a standard 3p elo at all, since we can all talk and discuss and cross-check with each other. I don't think we're depriving ourselves of too much here. If anything, I believe we've probably had more productive discussion than a lot of previous runs.

[Isis]

It's like when I can't actually think about which card I want to put on top until I go get the Oranguru and bench it and then look at what my had looks likwm. And then at that point I realize oh I can put this on top. Which means as it turns out I discarded the wrong card because I could have put Aurora on top and also played capture enemy but instead I went into the next turn with less basics dlskdkfoskskddk

[Faker]

I mean if I'm wrong on you I can't complain, but this is probably the freest read anyone's ever going to get on me. Flex on me by carrying me if you can!

[Isis]

Coral is saying what I'm saying except coral is a gentlewoman

[Coral]

I think it will be very entertaining when day 2 opens and everyone jumps in with their theories about what the scumteam have been up to that they've been waiting to share and in all likelihood everyone will have a different one

Will that be better than if we all just shared them now? Not sure! But it will be fun

[absinthe]

I mean if I'm wrong on you I can't complain, but this is probably the freest read anyone's ever going to get on me. Flex on me by carrying me if you can!

I'm not complaining, personally. I've seen my way clear to ways I can be beneficial here despite the headwinds.

[Faker]

Do you find my insistence that you are scummy suspicious at all? Earlier, re: sangres/WH13, you seem satisfied I was town, I think just because of my progression wrt demona & the Keep.

[Faker]

I believe the words you used when town-reading me were along the lines of "without reservation", so maybe I really put some work in to make you willing to vote cat over me.

[absinthe]

If you want to trust I'd actually for really reals say who I'd vote tomorrow given what's in the thread so far, go you, I guess.

Until my moment of Zen I was wracking my brains how to get through to you and and other players I expected to read me correctly if you're all town.

I'm probably wrong about someone but hopefully it won't matter.

[demona]

A lot of the posts I was trying to read were a bit too hard to follow like if the a goes to b goes to c but b is c and b should go wall etc
We need more mafia gaemplay

but the b to c is potentially sortable mafia gameplay

like if you/chara are both town and you follow through with coming to the wall, then mafia would have to switch one of us

so mafia might want to disrupt this

which only faker has really suggested anything different i believe but there were other plausible reasons for this and it wasn’t a hard push or anything

or the mafia might play around knowing they’d have to switch

and if one of you/chara are mafia then i think mafia would be comfortable with you locking in (though the non-you/chara mafias might not say so of course) and then weighing each of your approaches to doing so et cetera becomes relevant if none of us are switched

also applies to potential faker/catboi/absinthe keep

(and i kinda think everyone as mafia is more in practice of believably giving/discussing reads)

i guess i am mostly saying i do not mind more discussion of others’ alignments but i do not think one should come at the cost of the other