i designed this setup in 2019 [game over]

[MathBlade]

Hey math

Frog and gamma have been going at each other pretty hard

There was an imaginality wagon but it stopped when Titus claimed Mason pretty hard. I think frogster has been a wagon. Ythan was a wagon until she got tilted out of the game I guess. I see people going for quiet owl now.

Thanks!

Anyone want to advocate for their favorite wagon?

Like why?

[Save The Dragons]

I don't really have a good read right now my strong push was against imagine and it got shot down pretty hard when Titus softed Mason. Everyone seems to tr me so I should probably try to lead more but nothings really caught my eye

[Gamma Emerald]

I don't really have a good read right now my strong push was against imagine and it got shot down pretty hard when Titus softed Mason. Everyone seems to tr me so I should probably try to lead more but nothings really caught my eye

Do you feel like the TRs on you make sense?

[MathBlade]

I have a work fire to handle. May be ghostly invisible.

[Not_Mafia]

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[/url]

If you weren't the legend himself, I'd have questioned you putting yourself as null.

Do you ever feel like you just don’t know yourself?

[Titus]

I have to go to work now. Will read after work.

Kinda sad Titus couldn’t tell me the reasons for the Frog wagon.

I will try to post during work but I have read nothing.

Anyone who can give me a olive branch of info would be awesome?

Had to drive to work. My recent posts plus the one where I did 1) etc cover most of mine.

Not all of us are available all the time.

Sorry I thought you were here from the rapid fire posting.

I'll occasionally post in a 5 minute window when I can't call a case.

Let me know when you read through my comments.

[Save The Dragons]

I don't really have a good read right now my strong push was against imagine and it got shot down pretty hard when Titus softed Mason. Everyone seems to tr me so I should probably try to lead more but nothings really caught my eye

Do you feel like the TRs on you make sense?

I'm not so sure they do but I don't have a particular person that it's really weird from

[Ranger]

My issue is that none of y’all seem to actually give a shit about any specific vote to pull the others back/stay when the others move

I don't see reason to, yet. We've no deadline to contend with. If Frogsterking were actually in danger, perhaps there'd be pressure to work more cohesively, but while he's a leading wagon, he's not in lethal range.

Looking through the page HPE doesn't seem to care about Elements. Just seemed like it dropped a gotcha, but it's a pretty good gotcha considering how easy of a throwaway comment the earlier posts are in RVS.

I think I finally understand what you were saying, that the scumread was implied in 517 due to the nature of the gotcha. That wasn't really clear to me, because from HPE's posting, I would gather it's townreading Gamma or something.
As for the gotcha itself, I think Gamma noticed that Titus was softing masons with imaginality (463) and then decided to jump in the proverbial line of fire. Does it have more meaning to you?

Good point. Looks LAMIST. Let's consider two consequences
1) If nobody else realized it, now they surely would (this happened)
2) Titus would feel even more assured that the original comment was onto her eventual claim.
If Gamma wants to whiteknight imaginality that hard, they should be pretty convinced they're town, which is easy if they know they're town. If Gamma just wanted to tip their hat to Titus and get some mutual reads going, she could have been more subtle about it. Being as obvious as they were in hindsight it was pretty much guaranteed Titus would claim

something

because Titus already said too much, but it's only townie if Titus is the one to help expose her own role.

This is a wordier way of saying it, but this is one of the reasons I feel Gamma is suspect. Her handling of the mason soft was very forced.

The sooner it was mentioned, the more likely the wolf.

Guess which player was the first to bring multiball up, in their very first post.

[Morning Tweet]

If frog isn't town that all seems very deliberate, almost jestery

Pretty much. It's easy to point out how thin frog's reads can be sometimes, considering he tries to read the entire game immediately regardless of how much actual content there is. It's less easy to prove he's scum based off of that. I think the most of Owl's post makes frog's thought processes seem illogical but not for any particular purpose.

this part caught my eye though:

post 145 - "as scum I had a fantastic opportunity to bloat the thread with useless, horrible drama by dragging out a fight with tris over whether or not asking questions is AI for them."
frog is trying to feed people reasons to read him as town here. i do the same thing as scum.

@Quiet Owl: this comment in frog's post 145 pings me as odd:

"I feel like our conflict may be motivated by paranoia which I think is +town for both of us."

I feel like a townie there would not be saying "+town for both of us" compared with "+town for you". It seems an unnatural way to phrase it and to me makes it feel like frog is more focused on guiding others to read him as town (as with the other comment you noted in the same post) rather than on trying to read others.

I agree this is scummy

I've been waiting for someone else to point it out, but frogster keeps making comments like 'the town needs to stick together' and comes up with town blocs/speaks about the necessity of town blocs (not just one.) Goes from seeing himself as super best friends with Titus to not in the span of 21 posts. I've found the third party read of Ythan cute, but at this point I'm sure this game is multiball.

This seems more like town behaviour than scum behaviour to me. My reads are more static as scum. I also probably wouldn't spin around to tinfoil after mason claims after previously establishing them as town. It all seems like erratic town thought processing. But I'm not frog sure

The more this one thinks about it the less likely it thinks Titus's mason claim is real. Their insistence on things like the PT, knowing imaginality's alignment, etc etc are all convincing, but a D1 outing of two masons when one had at most 7 out of 12 votes and has since dropped from that... It's kind of insane, honestly. Really sketched out by this.

I just can't fathom why or how scum can claim masons with another player on D1 and expect to get anywhere. So I bin them as town pretty much

It's weird that it happened so quickly but i see town claim their roles with less votes tbh. I don't discount that there's something that feels off I guess. Usually masons are kept a tight secret, so you'd expect like maybe imagine claims by himself -- but Titus claimed for imagine, outting 2 masons at once? Why?

[Ranger]

Ranger had a top town read that had 3 posts up to this point: of viewtopic.php?p=13588125#p13588125

It's StD; that's two more than I need.
You don't know how easy StD is to meta. He's got such a strong contrast between his town/scumgames it's obvious from

one

post; I had three times that amount. He's literally among the top-5 easiest players to read onsite. I had plenty.

This case is incredibly forced

Well, yeah.

My reads are fluid, my read on Gamma keeps ping-ponging around, and I was asked to case Gamma.

Why should Gamma have a comment for every single person?

She doesn't, but having a comment for

only one

is suspect. What made andree specifically the only player worth talking about?

117 is a stretch, saying you're not going to do meta is co pletely valid.

How many scum players justify being outside of their town metas by saying they're not going to do something which is a signature of their town meta? (The answer is A Lot.)

Gamma is well-known for the trait she said she would avoid in 117/196. Commenting about deliberately avoiding it is more suspect than not doing it; scum are self-aware when not doing a Town Thing.

and 146, felt like Gamma was hinting at something or cautioning rather than bravado.

It's bravado

because

it's hinting at something. That's

why

it's bravado.

Then after a bunch of potshots it comes out to sort of null

Yes. I've been rather explicit about how fluid my reads are.

I was specifically asked to point out the scummier half of Gamma's iso. I did what I was requested to.

None of my reads are strong enough for any case to be slam-dunk.

Currently Ranger is vote parked on someone that she hasn't said a word about

I was the FIRST to point out Quiet Owl's suspect use of multiball. I've had Quiet Owl as scum the entire game. I've noted Quiet Owl as suspect well before anyone else.

[Morning Tweet]

Ranger, no one is going to towncase imaginality. That's not how it works. I'm not spending my time arguing about things I know to be true. It helps precisely no one. Casing someone means being open to feedback and I'm well NOT.

Cases are to make an argument.

A case is presenting a viewpoint.

A case CAN be simply gathering your beliefs and opening them up to criticism (what you're saying is a case) but I'll bet you most players don’t share that definition, and would instead say the primary purpose of a case is to

convince

players on a read, by presenting the reasons for the read to be true.

If imaginality was truly conftown to you, you wouldn't have needed to use exclusively breadcrumbs of masonry to defend him from the Suspicion.
You would have seen the merits by which he was town, and been able to argue his towniness from your lens of knowing he is town. You would still breadcrumb, but you wouldn’t rely exclusively on breadcrumbs to defend him.

You didn’t, because he's not actually conftown to you and you know it. You didn’t see his posts through the lens of

knowing

he's town and the resulting knowledge letting you see how his posts are town. If you saw so much as a single thing not role related to townread him by, you'd have pointed it out when defending him, with the breadcrumbs as secondary.

Instead, you instantly defaulted to relying exclusively on breadcrumbs to try and avert the wagon on him, because you can't see him as town off of play due to him not being conftown.

I know I'm right and you know I'm right. You might be frustrated by me ruining your gambit, but I am frustrated by your gambit

protecting scum

.

It doesn't work like that. I disagree that town always has a town-motivated reason for what they're doing, and you just have to find it. I think that there is an insane amount of overlap between town posting and scum posting to the point where everything is almost a guess -- at least on D1

But, anyway, that aside. Here's the post.

Oh boy, do I really want to read or

VOTE: Frog

P.S. imaginality is town k thx

Titus' second post of the game, and it was in response to a 4-vote wagon on imagine

I mean, yeah, weird that she didn't at bare minimum let imagine do his thing or defend him from an angle other than "We're both conf!town". I could see Titus and imagine's wincon's being intertwined on like a 2 person team split from the main group(s), maybe. It makes absolutely no sense for her to claim masons with say a mafia scumbuddy. It also doesn't make sense to reveal that you're both masons at the beginning of the game as actual masons?? Why wouldn't you just reveal that imagine is a mason, at worst?

Maybe they're like a delinquent duo and they had a gameplan to pose as masons from the start. It's sketchy. It also could be lazy. Town can do that, it can be a weird scum gambit, I don't know

[Ranger]

There’s a neighborhood. Ranger + others + I are in it. I would rather not out the others without permission but that is true Ranger is in a hood.

I'd have preferred you not outing this, MathBlade. I was quite capable of answering that without outing the existence of the hood or the members of it. Titus knows better than to assume I'd lie about having a PT; I could have simply reminded her of that and specified a lack of desire to out it does not mean a nonexistence of it.

Please look at the link between Frogster, CSF and Rsnger voting together despite none towncasing each other.

You're the second player to make this narrative, but looking at the game, I don't think it actually holds.

We've voted together twice, on imaginality and now Quiet Owl.

I'm fairly certain both CatScratchFever and Frogsterking have made more votes than that. Votes I did not join them on.

[Titus]

I'm fed up with wastes of time. Being fed up with stupidity that I'm not entertaining because of "tone" (impossible to argue without examples) is pretty much saying suspicion is valid when it isn't. Wagon also was at 6 and growing if I recall. I was attempting to be subtle but I'm no good at it. It appeared to pass those unfamiliar with me though which was the point.

[Titus]

You're the second player to make this narrative, but looking at the game, I don't think it actually holds.

We've voted together twice, on imaginality and now Quiet Owl.

I'm fairly certain both CatScratchFever and Frogsterking have made more votes than that. Votes I did not join them on.

It doesn't say you joined on every vote. You just are voting together frequently but everytime you're asked to defend each other it's crickets and a deflection like this one.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Did you read my 760 about Frogster? That was at you, Titus

[Elements]

Fwiw Titus, I had no idea you were crumbing mason with imagine

[Cat Scratch Fever]

@Quiet Owl: this comment in frog's post 145 pings me as odd:

"I feel like our conflict may be motivated by paranoia which I think is +town for both of us."

I feel like a townie there would not be saying "+town for both of us" compared with "+town for you". It seems an unnatural way to phrase it and to me makes it feel like frog is more focused on guiding others to read him as town (as with the other comment you noted in the same post) rather than on trying to read others.

I doubt this is AI. I remember another instance where town!Frog worded things a bit abnormally and got jumped on it:

Subject: LOST (Game Over)

I'm reading my interaction with Galron as SvT.

[Ranger]

I think that there is an insane amount of overlap between town posting and scum posting to the point where everything is almost a guess -- at least on D1

This is true from an uninformed view--where Titus doesn't actually know imaginality's alignment.

It's explicitly not true from an informed perspective. Titus would know imaginality's alignment, therefore

nothing

would be a guess to her. With her knowing imaginality is town, she'd know everything he did came from a town perspective. Knowing everything comes from a town perspective and additionally having a private topic with him, she'd know his

exact

process, and

why

it was town. Being conftown removes the guesswork from the equation.

I mean, yeah, weird that she didn't at bare minimum let imagine do his thing or defend him from an angle other than "We're both conf!town". I could see Titus and imagine's wincon's being intertwined on like a 2 person team split from the main group(s), maybe. It makes absolutely no sense for her to claim masons with say a mafia scumbuddy. It also doesn't make sense to reveal that you're both masons at the beginning of the game as actual masons?? Why wouldn't you just reveal that imagine is a mason, at worst?

And now you know where I'm coming from with my viewpoint.

It's not two scumbuddies.

But it also makes no sense to be two town being truthful.

[Ranger]

It doesn't say you joined on every vote. You just are voting together frequently but everytime you're asked to defend each other it's crickets and a deflection like this one.

And my point is that we actually

haven't

voted together frequently.

We've voted together

twice

.

Twice is not frequent.

I see no reason to defend CatScratchFlavor; they have 0 votes.

I

could

defend Frogsterking, but he's capable of defending himself and 6 votes isn't lethal. He's not in danger, so it's actually better for me

not

to defend him. You like VCA, the logic behind choosing not to dissolve a wagon shouldn't be lost on you.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

because a wagon on an empty slot is not going to be useful. There's no info to squeeze out of Ythan because she's not here...

Absolutely loving the CSF town here.

I think this is kind of NAI for me tbh

---

MT, thoughts on Quiet Owl?

[Frogsterking]

If you weren't the legend himself, I'd have questioned you putting yourself as null.

Do you ever feel like you just don’t know yourself?

[Frogsterking]

Hey MathBlade, I suggest you read the warning from the game reviewer that "mass claiming might go VERY poorly", since I know from my last game wth you that you specifically struggle to grasp this point, and I see you've already started outting information for no reason.

[Frogsterking]

In fact, I'm not sure which slot Math replaced, but if the menagerie of anti town roles in this game are desperate for a town slot to push through, I would consider helping you eliminate Math as policy since he already outted for no reason and has a history of being loose-lipped.

VOTE: MathBlade

Take it or leave it, scum/whatever/whatever/whatever else butts.

[Frogsterking]

@Titus

@imaginality

@Gamma

@furtive

@Enchant

@Quiet Owl

(I think)


My offer to help the anti town roles policy elim MathBlade will expire in 48 hours, so make your choices soon.

[Save The Dragons]

This seems performative