Open 869 | Fight for the Winter Court [Game Over!]

[Chara]

hello replacements. i'm trying to figure out what i want to do, with demona gone too i should be focusing on Isis, but i am still feeling pretty low about it all. absinthe is also a point of interest but is V/LA.

i think i'll give it another day, sorry.
skitter do you think Math scum because of Math's posting or because of your earlier read on Prism?

[Chara]

i'd like to thank Coral for absolutely bringing in the effort today with the partner reads from absinthe. i know scum Coral also has every reason to do this but i'd like to give credit where credit is due regardless, especially with motivations low on several fronts.

[Chara]

skitter, did you forget how the Keeps works again when you asked if Math voting himself was legal?

[Chara]

Ok but like her reads are too bad to look like she's solving either, abd coral looks like she is

Pedit r.e. ffery

while this is true, is that really good enough for you? like, i get it and it just makes sense, but i think as has been said already we're in a game where it's not as simple as X is solving and Y isn't, therefore Y scum.

i do townread Coral and not absinthe, though.

[Chara]

No, i just don't get what the point of it is
Or maybe i'm missing something

when you asked "is that legal" it sounded like you were wondering if mod would allow it, but why wouldn't she?

i don't know if there's a point either but Math suggesting it doesn't really surprise me.

[Chara]

I'm feeling increasingly convinced it's just ffery at gate

atp her reads are too bad to come from someone who is informed of everyone's alignment

would you mind talking about this as well, catboi?

[Chara]

I thought the point of the keep was to vote *someone* else you think is town, which is why i was wondering

If math is town
And votes himself

The town in me/catboi (i.e. me) has to vote him, ehich seems unideal from my perspective

If math is scum
And votes himself
Me/catboi need to vote each other, and if math switches off .... i don't understand why it's a scumclaim to switch off here

sure but... from town Math pov why

wouldn't

he want to vote himself? he can switch from voting himself to voting who of you/cat he thinks is town if he wants to, and for town Math who knows he's town having his vote where it is is the same as having it not on anyone, except he knows he's voting town and the other town could theoretically hammer him (even if it's very unlikely)

it's not a scumclaim to switch off, but it makes sense to me for Math to say that, basically.

[Chara]

though a crossvote in the Keep is never happening. scum has no reason to vote town in the Keep, it'd be the same as throwing. the town they're crossing with would just immediately hammer themselves and win the Keep for town.

[Chara]

i hope you're able to see your partner Isis. :<

[Chara]

i do kind of want to flip Gate first, are there thoughts on that?

i don't have much new to say, but... Isis, what are these less paranoid ideas for why i picked Wall how i did? i know we talked about it but given Herta hasn't done much readable to me yet while catching up, we may as well chat if you're up for it.

hoping to see some thoughts from you soon Tempest, the direction would be really appreciated if you're able.

[Chara]

I know you said "I don't actually have to explain this" but I think it's important to support that claim because it seems unbelievable to me.

no actually i don't owe you jack shit lmfao

i am still curious about the apparent strength of your reads on Coral/absinthe, i don't see what's so bad about absinthe's reads that you think she isn't informed, if that's what you were saying.

[Chara]

so, here's why i don't think skitter is scum. kitty's expressed intentions to vote her for the whole day, so even if skitter is scum who is scumread by Math, it's fine if she just waits for kitty to eventually vote her and keeps playing how she is, but the way she's approaching Mathblade and the timing of her frustrations doesn't fit for me for scum skitter who doesn't need Math's vote to begin with when kitty is here strongly favouring the skitter vote and (since kitty's town in this scum skitter scenario) presumably trustworthy to put his vote where his mouth is.

[Chara]

i'm not saying scum skitter doesn't try to speak yo town Mathblade like she is now, i just don't think she has this underlying feeling of frustration.

and edit while writing this followup post: i'm less sure than i was of this after a reread, skitter's not really as *heavy sigh* as i remember which is annoying, she could be playing cautious while she waits out kitty's vote i suppose.

[Chara]

we probably win Keep as long as no one votes catboi anyways, so i suppose it's fine?

[Chara]

absinthe/kitty/Isis updated scumteam guess. Isis and herta are at a closer level than i'd like though.

[Chara]

kitty/Tempest/absinthe is my early call. Isis could replace one.

i felt like so much has happened and yet the only change to my teamcall was one of them getting mod confirmed town and so getting replaced...

[Chara]

wait, i guessed that team before we even split up into the minigames, now i want it to be right so badly.

[Chara]

Chara!scum seems like the only case where this minigame can be win
Chara deciding me wrong for game would make me big sad

if scum is Herta i promise to figure it out! if you're town please don't take this to mean that i'm convinced you're scum, i imagine it looks that way on the surface but i've been wavering a lot more on it than my posts are showing, i just don't know if i have anything useful to say on the matter or poke at right now. i know you want me to look at your Day 2 play but it so far hasn't really swayed me one way or another and nothing's jumped out at me to poke at besides what i already asked about. if you want me to look at something in particular i can.

[Chara]

absinthe/kitty/Isis updated scumteam guess. Isis and herta are at a closer level than i'd like though.

herta going down and Isis going up from the 80% confidence i was at previously ^

part of that is demona's day 2 but before i could dig into anything i wanted to talk about there was a replace so, i'd rather just read Herta when they're caught up and/or playing with the present game.

[Chara]

though, have i been able to correctly read you as town before, Isis? the only game i can clearly remember is the one you pointed to where you were scum.

[Chara]

i don't have much new to say, but... Isis, what are these less paranoid ideas for why i picked Wall how i did? i know we talked about it but given Herta hasn't done much readable to me yet while catching up, we may as well chat if you're up for it.

quoting this as well so you see it.

[Chara]

I am somewhat heavily doubting that Chara in a team with catboi/absinthe would encourage that solve, knowing that Wall will likely flip last.

yes, it'd be rather difficult to win if i was bussing both of my teammates in their respective minigames when the wincon is 2/3 minigames won. :>

[Chara]

is it silly to think scum kitty is scumreading Coral/townreading absinthe so he looks uninformed upon an absinthe scumflip?

[Chara]

You have not! You saw me play town when you were scum one time.
It is hard to expect you would have a broken clock scumread manner of reading me, I just figure since you like me and usually don't misunderstand my play methods of anything you probably have a centered calibration. But not data based.

makes sense. i

would

say confidently that my calibration as you put it is properly balanced... at least in my own view. what i am wondering is why my misread of you in this case is a reason for you to think i'm scum, rather than simply wrong. you also had me as scum by default (due to demona town), which put us in similar situations to each other at the start of day 2, barring of course that i had the independent scumread as well.

also: was that scumgame of mine Silent Star, or something else?

[Chara]

i don't have much new to say, but... Isis, what are these less paranoid ideas for why i picked Wall how i did? i know we talked about it but given Herta hasn't done much readable to me yet while catching up, we may as well chat if you're up for it.

quoting this as well so you see it.

Less paranoid is, the reason you gave, pumping your own Joy Value, getting EV off of reading me. More paranoid was placating me, or not realizing at first that a townie asking you on a third wheel date gets you 2/3rds of the way to setting up a no-swap-neccaary hood but acknowledging the offer and accepting it later when that sunk in. Or thinking you could get buy-in on mislimming me after I talked you up.

the phrase Joy Value makes me think of the Lisa Games. that would be a fun setup theme.

thanks for the answer.

[Chara]

do you want to talk about the Keep? i'm curious as to your thoughts on skitter/kitty/Math. particularly given catboi has expressed a willingness to vote skitter, while Math and skitter are currently scumreading each other.

[Chara]

oh yes you were Lucy! i remember now. so i don't have experience reading town Isis, but i do have experience getting handcuffed and put away by her, which is better in some ways.

i don't think this will help me read you this game, but it is fun context. i'm not about to say that your play feeling different that single game as compared to this one is AI at all, as i'd resent the same being applied to me and have ranted about it enough in previous games.

pedit: haha, 'this once', after we've just established i've only ever played with you as town in a single game. cut poor Chara some slack, i am doing my best. :>

[Chara]

i did that thing where i start clicking into ISO's while writing my post because i know the post will be there when i navigate back to the page (instead of making a new tab).
then i finished what i was doing and thought "okay done, time to go send the post" so i closed the tab before remembering it was the same tab and i should have hit the back button a few times instead of closing it.

but the point was supposed to be that i've played a fair bit with Math, at least enough to know that Math's play so far has been very Mathlike and in line with his usual town methodology, caveat being it's not like he can't use that methodology as scum because he's very aware of his own patterns. what remains to be seen is whether he's actually uninformed.

[Chara]

skitter is having a hedgey game of lightweight thoughts, I don't know if that's just how she plays but I feel worried that the structure of the minigame is a great reason for her to find a million hedged thoughts about the game. I don't want to impose my read of skitter on other people X.X

i sort of feel the same regarding skitter, but i also feel like that is just how she tends to express herself,

catboi being the only member of the Keep that isn't campaigning for himself to be the vote is interesting and probably the singular thing i am trying to explore from a scum kitty perspective right now. because the smart play as scum (to me) is to pretend to favour a townie while of course trying to be the vote yourself, but that only works if you actually manage to be voted by one of those townies. of course, kitty wouldn't be able to know that Math would replace in, would have reason to favour skitter for town over Prism (wants skitter's vote), etc.
that both skitter and Math are asking to be voted because they aren't confident making a decision between the remaining two is.. problematic, though in skitter's case she's communicated her willingness to vote catboi as well, i believe?

i don't know, a lot of thoughts bouncing around on the Keep that are based on how i'd navigate this scenario as Keep scum, but none of these three are me so it may be an exercise in futility.

[Chara]

Chara is sooo opinionated as scum and as town and sometimes it's sooo wishy washy as town and also as scum

also i lost the post where i talked about why i thought you were probably town, the point is i want to continue to read you but i'm not going to lock you just because you look like town meta when i haven't played mafia with you in such a long time

[Chara]

Merry Chrimus i'm not v/la but i am checked out

[Chara]

happy holidays kitty!

[Chara]

i'm happy with catboi deciding who to vote in the Keep.

[Chara]

i feel this way about kitty too. if i'm wrong and he's town i'm okay with him making the decision, but he's also my favourite pick for scum.

Tempest - my conversation with Isis went fine, it's not quite finished until she returns though.

2115 is eh, Coral. absinthe picking that to respond to is really not AI, there are a million reasons she could have decided to voice her agreement there, and it's right on this page.

but you're in a position where she's confscum to you, so... ahaha.

have you talked about where you are on me and Isis? and Herta.

[Chara]

Chara wanting you & Faker to take a break reminds me of how it tried to make peace between my hydra and LLD.

do you think that's an AI behavior? Faker is my friend as well.

That's been evident to me!

The main difference I saw is that there's a lot more warmth to your peacemaking here. Is that AI? I'm not ready to try and figure that out. I haven't read carefully through that part of the thread yet, but I'm closing in.

i was trying to see what we had last spoken about, absinthe, and i saw it was here.
i do go for the "peacemaking" as scum in an attempt to replicate my town meta. as town i tend to let my emotions show more and have sometimes gotten more personal than i should have in a game (i'm not including this instance in that, for the record) while as scum i am pretty uncomfortable with doing so. it does still happen as these peacemaking attempts tend to have little to do with game events and more to do with disliking toxicity in games in general. if i call out behavior as scum in a "you need to stop" sense it's always my honest opinion, and only a tactic in that i'd often do the same thing as town.

i'd also rather not go over this part of the game any more than that, so i'd appreciate if you went through other avenues to read/play around me. but i understand it is game content so i won't be mad if you do choose to use it in the game given i've expounded... expanded? on it here.

[Chara]

catboi: i'm still very curious about your reads on absinthe and Coral. i know you scumread Coral, do you townread absinthe? and if yes, why? if you've already talked about it i'd appreciate a rehashing.

i think we're all agreed on flipping Gate first, so i'd like to focus in there. i know i haven't been shy about my scumread on you, you haven't really engaged with it, but i don't have a vote there so my opinion is only an opinion. still i do value your reads.

[Chara]

i agree with Isis! and not just because she snuck a neutral defense of me in there. Math going for gamestate reads based on posts like that is familiar for his solving pattern, imo.

absinthe: don't have much to say, just acknowledging your reply. i'd agree about being comfortable earlier, not so much now. being comfortable = being more decisive, possibly?

[Chara]

2187 clarifies some things, thank you. i also appreciate the responses to some of that older stuff, kitty.

really sucks if demonaslot

was

town because i don't see myself voting Isis anymore, am curious about the replacement but it's a little easy to call that a scumslot at this point.

energy is super low.

[Chara]

i townread Prism before the repout so that's colouring my Math read now. could be wrong there, in spite of my misgivings about skitter i'd call her town before i'd confidently call kitty town, but i'm at the stage of the game where i expect all of my reads to be wrong because i think i've been wrong on Isis.

:>

but also crying inside. you know.

[Chara]

siiiiiiiiiiiigh.

i want to flip the Gate. what do you want to do, Tempest?

[Chara]

i think if we haven't flipped a minigame in two days (deadline is in 5 days) i'm going to vote demonaslot and let Isis do as she wishes.

[Chara]

are you actually asking me for input that you haven't provided, yourself?

Sure am.

I already think you’re scum and Coral is town (as evidenced by the interactions we’ve had even if I haven’t outright said it)

It’s between Chara and the replace for the scum in the other game I think but that ones the harder one to solve. Chara is a hard read.

do you townread Isis?

[Chara]

VOTE: wafer wall

?????????????

shiki what the duck

on review of when demona took wall, i don't think prism look so aligned with her - it iddn't seem like she expected demona to go there just then

i don't know about that, it's not hard to fake this.

i know skitter's gone, but.

glad catboi had more sense than i did. thanks kitty.

[Chara]

anyway, I'm sorry if this is wrong. My passion for this game is dead. I can't dig into things the way I used to be able to. Playing as town is completely unenjoyable. The thought of attempting to reread this game is too painful for me to do so. I leave behind no conclusive statement on the Wall except an advisory that I think Chara is town, you can see somewhere in my ISO that I made a post with postnum links as to why I think so.

VOTE: skitter


Sorry for how this game went, I didn't want to play mafia. I got dragged in by a friend who I'm not sure is a friend anymore because of my actions this game. Hopefully one day I'll regain my spark for this game. If anyone wants to talk outside the game I have a Discord in my profile.

i'm sorry, catboi. thanks for playing it out, i'll do the same.

[Chara]

you're fine, Aisa. appreciate the replace-in at this stage.
i'm also fine with an absinthe flip, i don't see Coral ever going over her anyway. i really hope it's game over with that.
that would mean the Gate was all town and absinthe was swapped in because a scum was needed there, i believe.

[Chara]

i think ffery's rl issues contributed a lot to her play this game, unfortunately. as town or as scum she said herself she hasn't had nearly amount of time she wanted to devote for this game.

[Chara]

thanks for modding Ydrasse. loved your flavour.

i guess my reads weren't as terrible as i thought. that's something. definitely would have ended up miselimming Aisa if we hadn't gotten the win at Keep and Gate.

was fun to play with you all day 1.