Mini Normal 2285: GM [game over]

[Herta]

I think I've seen kitty over play a pr as town before but I can't remember where. And i guess if he's don't that he could certainly do a gambit as scum.

[MathBlade]

I don’t think there is a scum between Kitty and me but a scum between Kitty and Fire.

So you think fire is scum.

That’s my primary theory.

Mod did confirm I can still doc but no ninja anymore.

I doc’d IV to see which of the PRs scum would shoot and instead they shot Toto.

This tells me that of the PRs it’s most likely fire because scum would be scared of me potentially doccing IV.

So I think Fire and Val

[Val89]

VOTE: Val

Val reads like outed scum who dislikes the setup.

The more I think on it, the happier I am to make today a gladiate.


VOTE: Mathblade

[Val89]

This tells me that of the PRs it’s most likely fire because scum would be scared of me potentially doccing IV.

So why not shoot you?

[MathBlade]

Fine by me.

Then you and Fire die and gg we win.

[MathBlade]

This tells me that of the PRs it’s most likely fire because scum would be scared of me potentially doccing IV.

So why not shoot you?

Escape hatch. Need someone to push

[skitter30]

The thing with math scum is that i'm still not sure he reps in, claims doc, and decides to tunnel on pooky. Their interactions that day don't really seem faked to me

Val can u address this bit plz

[Val89]

If its me and FB, there is both Herta and Ydra as "escape hatches", and neither of those risk a town!doc getting a save if you aren't limmed for whatever reason.

Obvious bullshit is obvious.

[Val89]

Val can u address this bit plz

The bit where pooky was offering up Sco + yourself + Unwnd as the team, all while Unwnd was expressing doubts on the town IV he had just saved, then Math reps in, starts softing all kinds of PRs and then settles on a doc claim who saved IV and who knows Pooky is scum while suddenly pooky decides, actually this new rep is absolutely town, all while they are been pushed, and then goes into anti-spew mode and self-hammers the next day?

I'm not sure what you think the issue is, really. The point of a N1 no kill was to enable a fake doc claim to go deep, and busing what is essentially a goon who is catching heat from the legit town you've cleared for the towncred seems perfectly in keeping with that plan.

[MathBlade]

The actual fake claim is from Fire or Kitty.

Both have good arguments.

But pushing Herta on day open is sus when Toto IV Freedom and myself were all off it.

Herta I don’t see flipping scum here.

[Herta]

Val can u address this bit plz

The bit where pooky was offering up Sco + yourself + Unwnd as the team, all while Unwnd was expressing doubts on the town IV he had just saved, then Math reps in, starts softing all kinds of PRs and then settles on a doc claim who saved IV and who knows Pooky is scum while suddenly pooky decides, actually this new rep is absolutely town, all while they are been pushed, and then goes into anti-spew mode and self-hammers the next day?

I'm not sure what you think the issue is, really. The point of a N1 no kill was to enable a fake doc claim to go deep, and busing what is essentially a goon who is catching heat from the legit town you've cleared for the towncred seems perfectly in keeping with that plan.

Okay but math wasn't here for Night 1 so that means that unwnd or someone else was going to fake claim doc, but if that were true why would math, as replacement for unwnd, soft other PRs instead of just doc?

[Val89]

Like I said yesterday, I think Ydra was originally supposed to claim doc which supports her softs about self-resolving much more than one-shot disloyal checker does, and pooky was happy to rule-of-three Unwnd.

Once MathBlade arrives, he starts softing and they decide he is a better option for the deepwolf and better take Ydra's claim.

[Val89]

Like I said yesterday, I think Ydra was originally supposed to claim doc which supports her softs about self-resolving much more than one-shot disloyal checker does, and pooky was happy to rule-of-three Unwnd.

Once MathBlade arrives, he starts softing and they decide he is a better option for the deepwolf and better take Ydra's claim.

[Val89]

Like, how the hell else do you explain 2066? I'm being asked to write if off as a co-incidence, but there is just no way you don't realise those softs can point to FN. Maybe "knocking on the door" can invite some benefit-of-the-doubt, but "we are so friendly" "Pete and Goofy"?

I wonder if the original plan was to kill IV and claim he was a FN (perhaps one shot) who had sent a notification to IV, and point to all those crumbs and the fact that IV hadn't said anything as evidence IV had received the notification, and thus MB is conf town, but the insistence he explain why both of them were cleared forces the doc claim instead - notwithstanding of course that even THAT claim doesn't explain it - I'm willing-to-bet-the-game on it sure IV is in fact town, but he hasn't been proved that by MathBlade, even a town!MB.

I know hooky things happen in these games, but I'm being asked to believe one too many co-incidences for me to believe Math is town - unwnd not softing, ydra over softing, pooky offering unwnd up as part of a solve until the rep-in and then 180ing following the softs, unwnds treatment of IV being some sort of gambit, the multiple softs just accidentally pointing to multiple claims, and now, on top of all that - Totos role.

You think that is all co-incidence and I'm either bullshiting or just plain wrong, fine, go ahead and lim me. I think there is enough suspicion, perhaps justified, coming my way that I'm a decent final mislim-for-the-win for scum to hold in the back pocket. But if math is town, and kitty is telling the truth, that means you've got an already powerful town protective who suddenly got confirmable - ie, even stronger, after killing our IC.

I think it's already highly-suspicious he's here on D5. If you lim me, at least confirm he's some sort of PR, and expect me to be screaming from the dead thread if you let him cross the finish line with that claim after I'm revealed VT.

[MathBlade]

Dude. His name is innocent villager. I was crumbing IV is my inno.

This is al just bluster and showmanship. If you really believed you were right none of that would be necessary.

[Val89]

If you really believed you were right none of that would be necessary.

In what way?

[Val89]

Like, maybe you could still convince me those all were coincidences, but it's a pretty high bar to cross.

You can start by explaining how 'innocent villiager' has anything to do with 'friendly neighbour', and where you crumbed, amongst all the other noise, you were ninja, or else why you thought it was appropriate not to.

And then, unless you intend to "dude, I didn't realise", we've then got the handful (ie: more than one) of cop and vig crumbs to explain..

[MathBlade]

It’s the same blustering I do as scum.

If you really believed you were right you’d just let what you said sit and speak for itself.

But instead you’re “Believe all this BS or I will scream at you from dead thread.”

You’re evoking fear to try to avoid a rational response which is that I am town.

Is it possible I am mistaken town? Of course. But if you’re telling me that at least one scum of not two wanted Herta dead and still arguing Herta scum that’s imho ridiculous.

[Val89]

Is it possible I am mistaken town? Of course. But if you’re telling me that at least one scum of not two wanted Herta dead and still arguing Herta scum that’s imho ridiculous.

I'm sorry, I don't follow.

[MathBlade]

vote count 4.09

with 10 votes in play, it takes 6 to make a decision. day 4 ends in (expired on 2022-12-30 17:30:00).

yeet

Herta [5]:

skitter30, KittyTacky, Firebringer, Val89, Ydrasse

Freedom [2]:

innocentvillager, Herta

Ydrasse [2]:

Toto

, MathBlade

Firebringer [1]:

Freedom

not voting [0]:

mod notes

~ skitter30 v/la fridays/saturdays
~ freedom v/la from 24.12. to 1.1.
~ herta v/la through 31.12.
~ this is a mod note

flavour

I actually don’t have a solve.

Just from my POV Toto myself and IV are all likely town.

Assume 0 scum on the wagon and Herta scum.

This means the only scum would be Freedom.

Ergo if Herta is scum scum are bussing but it’s way more likely that scum dog piled Herta.

Similar to how I didn’t like the earlier elim because the town block wasn’t on it.

Like it stems from here.

If Freedom is scum without Herta then why not have taken the Herta likely miselim
If Freedom is scum with Herta that doesn’t explain any of the weirdness going on. :/

So like I don’t that situation at all so Val to me looks the most sus

…

Look at this VC again.

Freedom = town like I said.

Even if you wish to argue incorrectly I am scum, then unless it’s me and IV staying off wagon which leaves loads more questions than it solves, you’re looking at scum wanting Herta dead.

So a Herta wagon = super bad idea.

[Val89]

Okay, but what has that got to do with me being blustering scum?

I don't want a Herta wagon, I want a me or you wagon.

[MathBlade]

Okay, but what has that got to do with me being blustering scum?

I don't want a Herta wagon, I want a me or you wagon.

You are blustering because you’re out of options:

You can’t miselim Herta because no matter what scum team you pick (short of me +IV) scum wanted Herta dead
You can’t miselim a different PR because then if they flip town I become clear and I know which PR it is. Plus I am spewed town with Toto’s flip.
You can’t bus your power PR because that only buys you a day and then we look at you and Herta for end game

You’re pretty stuck.

[MathBlade]

You can’t push Skitter without dealing with Ydrasse pseudo clear.

Like you literally have no one you can push.

So you’re desperate.

[Val89]

Math is right. Of course I'm scum.

All the above is just.. Unlucky coincidence, I guess. What a shit game for me.


VOTE: val89

[Firebringer]

Why would scum me kill Toto over mathblade.
I want mathblade dead the most