Newbie 2108 - Postgame

[Alianna]

1.17

Votecount 1.17

MegAzumarill (E-2): Elements, Aureal, IdleMuse
BlueBloodedToffee (1): cactus
Aureal (1): MegAzumarill
Brickwalll (1): Pavowski

Not Voting (3): Weuler, BlueBloodedToffee, Brickwalll

With 9 players alive, it takes 5 votes to secure an elimination.

The day deadline is in (expired on 2023-01-06 12:21:25).

[cactus]

Cactus, I think we're just going in circles about Brick. I'm going to point out again that Brick engaged with it more than others like Meg and Pav have, and move on.

Spoiler:

In fact, looking back at those posts of Pav's, like around 109, in conjunction with what Pav posted above, I'd consider it's maybe it's Pav+Charles, and Pav is frustrated with Charles's pretend absence. As a scumpair, he'd be in a better position to know that Charles is faking being busy, which would explain why he so readily differentiated Charles and Weuler at that point. Hoping to show his lazy partner the dangers of being lurkscum, he starts trying to get some pressure on Charles.

So now that we're nearing the end of the day, and Charles is still not doing anything, Pav is more than willing to throw Charles under the bus. He's been a bit overly fixated on Charles, and his comments above about a partner not being willing to save Charles at -this- point make it seem like he's hoping for towncred for being so gung-ho going after Charles all along. "When" Charles flips red, he said. Sounds like he's pretty sure of that.

This absolutely just sounds like town not wanting to play with an inactive slot

Spoiler:

And yet you're seeing Weuler's bland comments on Charles as scummy? What makes the one different than the other? They're both clearly irritated and I don't see why scum wouldn't be irritated but town would. Pav's irritation comes off scummier to me because of the cryptic comments, whereas Weuler's are stuff I might well have said myself.

As for my reads, I'm voting my top scum but would be fine with Idle/Pav too. BBT should get the chance to contribute. Town, well, that's harder. As Weuler just said, everyone can manage to do something scummy, so I rule nobody out with no info. Elements I suppose gets the most credit but I still have my doubts, I can see the table being a bold scum play to sow confusion, and as Weuler points out, it doesn't try to evaluate Elements as scum pair.

Weuler was looking for reasons to back off of Charles. One(Weuler) was moving momentum off him, the other(Aureal) was expressing desire for elimination and criticizing

[cactus]

VOTE: Brickwall

[Weuler]

Regarding Charles: At one point I was convinced they were a power-role, hoping for a quick lim so that they could get their night action in. Then on d2 they could possibly make a comback, if they were e.g. a town cop. That would be a very odd strategy, but Charles's behaviour in the thread was very odd. After Charles got prodded I realised they were probably just inactive.

[Weuler]

VOTE: Brickwalll

[Brickwalll]

VOTE: Meg again.

I honestly don’t think anyone has put forward a good case on me. A lot of it seems to be that you don’t like my play and/or you don’t like the fact I won’t accept Elements post or IdleMuses post to hunt in scum pairs.

Other than that, I can’t see a valid reason. Pav essentially didn’t mention anything about my post 551 other than the read on Megs is too short and thus must be scum. It also comes across a little bit like OMGUS. I stated some points in 349 and then further called him out on townlocking Aureal.

Nobody is talking about how Idle had a theory on me being scum, but when that theory was busted by Aureal they just changed the theory to fit the facts. Why are people not discussing this or looking into it?

Anyways, if you are town and on my bandwagon you seriously need to reconsider. You haven’t built a very good case and if you can, let’s discuss it.

Scum is amongst Meg, Idle, Elements and Pav imo.

Cactus maybe but he is just playing differently to what I know.

[Brickwalll]

That is E-1 on Meg by the way, again.

[Brickwalll]

Hunting for pairs again are we? This approach really isn't working and is going to be a bad look in hindsight. I don't know why we don't focus on finding one scum and then work out the pairs afterwards. I really am beyond trying to understand what we are trying to achieve by working out scum in pairings. I don't have anything to answer to, I disagree that is a good case and if there is something you would like to specifically point me to and answer it I will.

Somebody help me out with this. We've played this game before, on two fronts:

1) Pairs are a valid, and possibly superior, means of scumhunting. The scum team is a team. It is in their interest to look out for each other, and they cannot help knowing their partner. That's how we catch them.
2) Brick makes a wonky read and stubbornly digs in.

Is this town!Brick being myopic or scum!Brick just pushing an angle (or rather, trying to steer us off an angle?)

I want to townread weird play like this but man, it keeps feeling weird

Certainly not a superior way of scum hunting, my lim will set that straight don’t you worry.

I maintain it’s nonsensical and illogical. Yes mafia has no logic. Hear me out:

Hunting for scum is hard enough. Hunting in pairs on D1 is near impossible. IdleMuse for instance, is just manipulating posts and situations to fit her agenda. Thus on that basis it is easy to make whoever you want into a scum pair. Nobody seems to be answering the question what if you are wrong? How do we justify being wrong and so many hypotheticals, let’s go through it.

Let’s say Idle is right and Meg and I are a scum team, you vote me out first and I flip scum. Do you immediately lim Meg?

Scenario number 2: we are both town, you lim me and I turn out to be VT. What do you do about your read on Meg now? She was super scummy in the sense everyone had a case on her, but now that I am not scum is she no longer scum because we were a pairing?

Scenario 3: I’m scum and Meg is town. You vote Meg off - she flips VT. Now you have confirmed we are not a scum team, so I get towncred because my “scum partner” was intact town. Are you less likely to vote me out now although in this scenario the real decider here was the order. Because if you voted me out first then you hit scum, and we are back to scenario one. Would you immediately lim Meg?

This is why it doesn’t make sense. I will continue fighting until I’m blue in the face that this isn’t a good approach. And I will happily state now you will be hard pressed to find me agreeing with any scum pair hunting analysis. There are better ways to play this game. Simple as.

[cactus]

Brickwall, what do you think about scumteam 21? Reference 294 and 451

Spoiler:

Regarding Charles: At one point I was convinced they were a power-role, hoping for a quick lim so that they could get their night action in. Then on d2 they could possibly make a comback, if they were e.g. a town cop. That would be a very odd strategy, but Charles's behaviour in the thread was very odd. After Charles got prodded I realised they were probably just inactive.

PR hunting is not towny and I do not accept this as a defense. Thinking that there is a cop is TMI

[cactus]

Spoiler:

Hunting for pairs again are we? This approach really isn't working and is going to be a bad look in hindsight. I don't know why we don't focus on finding one scum and then work out the pairs afterwards. I really am beyond trying to understand what we are trying to achieve by working out scum in pairings. I don't have anything to answer to, I disagree that is a good case and if there is something you would like to specifically point me to and answer it I will.

Somebody help me out with this. We've played this game before, on two fronts:

1) Pairs are a valid, and possibly superior, means of scumhunting. The scum team is a team. It is in their interest to look out for each other, and they cannot help knowing their partner. That's how we catch them.
2) Brick makes a wonky read and stubbornly digs in.

Is this town!Brick being myopic or scum!Brick just pushing an angle (or rather, trying to steer us off an angle?)

I want to townread weird play like this but man, it keeps feeling weird

Certainly not a superior way of scum hunting, my lim will set that straight don’t you worry.

I maintain it’s nonsensical and illogical. Yes mafia has no logic. Hear me out:

Hunting for scum is hard enough. Hunting in pairs on D1 is near impossible. IdleMuse for instance, is just manipulating posts and situations to fit her agenda. Thus on that basis it is easy to make whoever you want into a scum pair. Nobody seems to be answering the question what if you are wrong? How do we justify being wrong and so many hypotheticals, let’s go through it.

Let’s say Idle is right and Meg and I are a scum team, you vote me out first and I flip scum. Do you immediately lim Meg?

Scenario number 2: we are both town, you lim me and I turn out to be VT. What do you do about your read on Meg now? She was super scummy in the sense everyone had a case on her, but now that I am not scum is she no longer scum because we were a pairing?

Scenario 3: I’m scum and Meg is town. You vote Meg off - she flips VT. Now you have confirmed we are not a scum team, so I get towncred because my “scum partner” was intact town. Are you less likely to vote me out now although in this scenario the real decider here was the order. Because if you voted me out first then you hit scum, and we are back to scenario one. Would you immediately lim Meg?

This is why it doesn’t make sense. I will continue fighting until I’m blue in the face that this isn’t a good approach. And I will happily state now you will be hard pressed to find me agreeing with any scum pair hunting analysis. There are better ways to play this game. Simple as.

I would agree if we were playing against two serial killers.

[Brickwalll]

Regarding Charles: At one point I was convinced they were a power-role, hoping for a quick lim so that they could get their night action in. Then on d2 they could possibly make a comback, if they were e.g. a town cop. That would be a very odd strategy, but Charles's behaviour in the thread was very odd. After Charles got prodded I realised they were probably just inactive.

This post seems strange. Why would a PR look for a quick lim for town. To use their night action doesn’t seem like a good scenario or theory?

Also, as town, why are you even mentioning PR’s? Everyone knows the first rule of mafia is to not talk about PRs, ever.

@Weuler, what is your case on me? Let’s chat about it.

[Brickwalll]

Spoiler:

Hunting for pairs again are we? This approach really isn't working and is going to be a bad look in hindsight. I don't know why we don't focus on finding one scum and then work out the pairs afterwards. I really am beyond trying to understand what we are trying to achieve by working out scum in pairings. I don't have anything to answer to, I disagree that is a good case and if there is something you would like to specifically point me to and answer it I will.

Somebody help me out with this. We've played this game before, on two fronts:

1) Pairs are a valid, and possibly superior, means of scumhunting. The scum team is a team. It is in their interest to look out for each other, and they cannot help knowing their partner. That's how we catch them.
2) Brick makes a wonky read and stubbornly digs in.

Is this town!Brick being myopic or scum!Brick just pushing an angle (or rather, trying to steer us off an angle?)

I want to townread weird play like this but man, it keeps feeling weird

Certainly not a superior way of scum hunting, my lim will set that straight don’t you worry.

I maintain it’s nonsensical and illogical. Yes mafia has no logic. Hear me out:

Hunting for scum is hard enough. Hunting in pairs on D1 is near impossible. IdleMuse for instance, is just manipulating posts and situations to fit her agenda. Thus on that basis it is easy to make whoever you want into a scum pair. Nobody seems to be answering the question what if you are wrong? How do we justify being wrong and so many hypotheticals, let’s go through it.

Let’s say Idle is right and Meg and I are a scum team, you vote me out first and I flip scum. Do you immediately lim Meg?

Scenario number 2: we are both town, you lim me and I turn out to be VT. What do you do about your read on Meg now? She was super scummy in the sense everyone had a case on her, but now that I am not scum is she no longer scum because we were a pairing?

Scenario 3: I’m scum and Meg is town. You vote Meg off - she flips VT. Now you have confirmed we are not a scum team, so I get towncred because my “scum partner” was intact town. Are you less likely to vote me out now although in this scenario the real decider here was the order. Because if you voted me out first then you hit scum, and we are back to scenario one. Would you immediately lim Meg?

This is why it doesn’t make sense. I will continue fighting until I’m blue in the face that this isn’t a good approach. And I will happily state now you will be hard pressed to find me agreeing with any scum pair hunting analysis. There are better ways to play this game. Simple as.

I would agree if we were playing against two serial killers.

You wanted to chat and I am here but now you aren’t even engaging with my posts.

Considering you are a big believer in elements post, can you please answer what you would do in each scenario. Because as someone pushing this theory, you need to have answers when you are wrong.

So how are you going to justify when I flip town?

[Brickwalll]

Brickwall, what do you think about scumteam 21? Reference 294 and 451

Spoiler:

Regarding Charles: At one point I was convinced they were a power-role, hoping for a quick lim so that they could get their night action in. Then on d2 they could possibly make a comback, if they were e.g. a town cop. That would be a very odd strategy, but Charles's behaviour in the thread was very odd. After Charles got prodded I realised they were probably just inactive.

PR hunting is not towny and I do not accept this as a defense. Thinking that there is a cop is TMI

I don’t hunt in scum pairs, but individually I think Weuler could very well be scum (particularly after his PR theory, seems bizarre?).

BBT I have for town at the moment, and thus why I don’t hunt in scum teams and would say scum team 21 is a non-existent scum team.

[cactus]

Spoiler:

Hunting for pairs again are we? This approach really isn't working and is going to be a bad look in hindsight. I don't know why we don't focus on finding one scum and then work out the pairs afterwards. I really am beyond trying to understand what we are trying to achieve by working out scum in pairings. I don't have anything to answer to, I disagree that is a good case and if there is something you would like to specifically point me to and answer it I will.

Somebody help me out with this. We've played this game before, on two fronts:

1) Pairs are a valid, and possibly superior, means of scumhunting. The scum team is a team. It is in their interest to look out for each other, and they cannot help knowing their partner. That's how we catch them.
2) Brick makes a wonky read and stubbornly digs in.

Is this town!Brick being myopic or scum!Brick just pushing an angle (or rather, trying to steer us off an angle?)

I want to townread weird play like this but man, it keeps feeling weird

Certainly not a superior way of scum hunting, my lim will set that straight don’t you worry.

I maintain it’s nonsensical and illogical. Yes mafia has no logic. Hear me out:

Hunting for scum is hard enough. Hunting in pairs on D1 is near impossible. IdleMuse for instance, is just manipulating posts and situations to fit her agenda. Thus on that basis it is easy to make whoever you want into a scum pair. Nobody seems to be answering the question what if you are wrong? How do we justify being wrong and so many hypotheticals, let’s go through it.

Let’s say Idle is right and Meg and I are a scum team, you vote me out first and I flip scum. Do you immediately lim Meg?

Scenario number 2: we are both town, you lim me and I turn out to be VT. What do you do about your read on Meg now? She was super scummy in the sense everyone had a case on her, but now that I am not scum is she no longer scum because we were a pairing?

Scenario 3: I’m scum and Meg is town. You vote Meg off - she flips VT. Now you have confirmed we are not a scum team, so I get towncred because my “scum partner” was intact town. Are you less likely to vote me out now although in this scenario the real decider here was the order. Because if you voted me out first then you hit scum, and we are back to scenario one. Would you immediately lim Meg?

This is why it doesn’t make sense. I will continue fighting until I’m blue in the face that this isn’t a good approach. And I will happily state now you will be hard pressed to find me agreeing with any scum pair hunting analysis. There are better ways to play this game. Simple as.

Spoiler:

I would agree if we were playing against two serial killers.

Spoiler:

You wanted to chat and I am here but now you aren’t even engaging with my posts.

Considering you are a big believer in elements post, can you please answer what you would do in each scenario. Because as someone pushing this theory, you need to have answers when you are wrong.

So how are you going to justify when I flip town?

I can't believe you ignored post #583 and had the audacity to say I'm not engaging
What are your reads on Weuler and Charles?
Nobody is going to justify every possible team. What team do you most scumread?

You're not flipping town

[Brickwalll]

For the most part I think you have to disregard how people engaged with Charles. That slot essentially was absent for 7 real life days. Perhaps a few small snippets can be taken, but a lot of people would have found it easy to write posts on Charles. They could say what they like really without fear of it being addressed knowing he was AFK.

I maintain Charles was disinterested town and not lurking scum.

[Brickwalll]

Spoiler:

Hunting for pairs again are we? This approach really isn't working and is going to be a bad look in hindsight. I don't know why we don't focus on finding one scum and then work out the pairs afterwards. I really am beyond trying to understand what we are trying to achieve by working out scum in pairings. I don't have anything to answer to, I disagree that is a good case and if there is something you would like to specifically point me to and answer it I will.

Somebody help me out with this. We've played this game before, on two fronts:

1) Pairs are a valid, and possibly superior, means of scumhunting. The scum team is a team. It is in their interest to look out for each other, and they cannot help knowing their partner. That's how we catch them.
2) Brick makes a wonky read and stubbornly digs in.

Is this town!Brick being myopic or scum!Brick just pushing an angle (or rather, trying to steer us off an angle?)

I want to townread weird play like this but man, it keeps feeling weird

Certainly not a superior way of scum hunting, my lim will set that straight don’t you worry.

I maintain it’s nonsensical and illogical. Yes mafia has no logic. Hear me out:

Hunting for scum is hard enough. Hunting in pairs on D1 is near impossible. IdleMuse for instance, is just manipulating posts and situations to fit her agenda. Thus on that basis it is easy to make whoever you want into a scum pair. Nobody seems to be answering the question what if you are wrong? How do we justify being wrong and so many hypotheticals, let’s go through it.

Let’s say Idle is right and Meg and I are a scum team, you vote me out first and I flip scum. Do you immediately lim Meg?

Scenario number 2: we are both town, you lim me and I turn out to be VT. What do you do about your read on Meg now? She was super scummy in the sense everyone had a case on her, but now that I am not scum is she no longer scum because we were a pairing?

Scenario 3: I’m scum and Meg is town. You vote Meg off - she flips VT. Now you have confirmed we are not a scum team, so I get towncred because my “scum partner” was intact town. Are you less likely to vote me out now although in this scenario the real decider here was the order. Because if you voted me out first then you hit scum, and we are back to scenario one. Would you immediately lim Meg?

This is why it doesn’t make sense. I will continue fighting until I’m blue in the face that this isn’t a good approach. And I will happily state now you will be hard pressed to find me agreeing with any scum pair hunting analysis. There are better ways to play this game. Simple as.

Spoiler:

I would agree if we were playing against two serial killers.

Spoiler:

You wanted to chat and I am here but now you aren’t even engaging with my posts.

Considering you are a big believer in elements post, can you please answer what you would do in each scenario. Because as someone pushing this theory, you need to have answers when you are wrong.

So how are you going to justify when I flip town?

I can't believe you ignored post #583 and had the audacity to say I'm not engaging
What are your reads on Weuler and Charles?
Nobody is going to justify every possible team. What team do you most scumread?

You're not flipping town

I just answered 583?

You’re not flipping town

It is this narrow minded approach which is going to lose town this game.

[cactus]

Weuler could very well be scum

Yes

BBT I have for town at the moment

Why do you think BBT is town? He seems to have read the whole game and ask some questions, but hasn't given any reads of his own
Not even an RVS

[Elements]

BBT is town

[Brickwalll]

Spoiler:

Hunting for pairs again are we? This approach really isn't working and is going to be a bad look in hindsight. I don't know why we don't focus on finding one scum and then work out the pairs afterwards. I really am beyond trying to understand what we are trying to achieve by working out scum in pairings. I don't have anything to answer to, I disagree that is a good case and if there is something you would like to specifically point me to and answer it I will.

Somebody help me out with this. We've played this game before, on two fronts:

1) Pairs are a valid, and possibly superior, means of scumhunting. The scum team is a team. It is in their interest to look out for each other, and they cannot help knowing their partner. That's how we catch them.
2) Brick makes a wonky read and stubbornly digs in.

Is this town!Brick being myopic or scum!Brick just pushing an angle (or rather, trying to steer us off an angle?)

I want to townread weird play like this but man, it keeps feeling weird

Certainly not a superior way of scum hunting, my lim will set that straight don’t you worry.

I maintain it’s nonsensical and illogical. Yes mafia has no logic. Hear me out:

Hunting for scum is hard enough. Hunting in pairs on D1 is near impossible. IdleMuse for instance, is just manipulating posts and situations to fit her agenda. Thus on that basis it is easy to make whoever you want into a scum pair. Nobody seems to be answering the question what if you are wrong? How do we justify being wrong and so many hypotheticals, let’s go through it.

Let’s say Idle is right and Meg and I are a scum team, you vote me out first and I flip scum. Do you immediately lim Meg?

Scenario number 2: we are both town, you lim me and I turn out to be VT. What do you do about your read on Meg now? She was super scummy in the sense everyone had a case on her, but now that I am not scum is she no longer scum because we were a pairing?

Scenario 3: I’m scum and Meg is town. You vote Meg off - she flips VT. Now you have confirmed we are not a scum team, so I get towncred because my “scum partner” was intact town. Are you less likely to vote me out now although in this scenario the real decider here was the order. Because if you voted me out first then you hit scum, and we are back to scenario one. Would you immediately lim Meg?

This is why it doesn’t make sense. I will continue fighting until I’m blue in the face that this isn’t a good approach. And I will happily state now you will be hard pressed to find me agreeing with any scum pair hunting analysis. There are better ways to play this game. Simple as.

Spoiler:

I would agree if we were playing against two serial killers.

Spoiler:

You wanted to chat and I am here but now you aren’t even engaging with my posts.

Considering you are a big believer in elements post, can you please answer what you would do in each scenario. Because as someone pushing this theory, you need to have answers when you are wrong.

So how are you going to justify when I flip town?

I can't believe you ignored post #583 and had the audacity to say I'm not engaging
What are your reads on Weuler and Charles?
Nobody is going to justify every possible team. What team do you most scumread?

You're not flipping town

Look at the timing of our posts. I was obviously typing whilst your posted 583.

Why are you so aggressive in this game and why are you intent on tunnelling me?

For 5 minutes put down the pickaxe you are digging with and go look elsewhere. Then if you really can’t find any other scum come back to me.

Your play is damaging town and WHEN I flip town people are going to have even less confidence in your reads for the entirety of the game. I implore you to be more objective, if you are town that is.

This tunnelling is bordering on scum.

[cactus]

BBT is town

Null at best, policy at worst

[Brickwalll]

Weuler could very well be scum

Yes

BBT I have for town at the moment

Why do you think BBT is town? He seems to have read the whole game and ask some questions, but hasn't given any reads of his own
Not even an RVS

You can’t expect BBT to answer for actions that Charles did. BBT must answer questions on his post.

I already told you why I think BBT is town in 551. I think the Charles slot was a disinterested townie more than lurking scum. And then BBT’s initial entrance into the game was good. He was methodical and I agreed with a lot of his reads. His behaviour came across as town and combined with my theory on Charles being disinterested townie I have him down for town.

[cactus]

Why are you so aggressive in this game and why are you intent on tunnelling me?

I'm not being aggressive. You just feel intimidated

[Brickwalll]

Why are you so aggressive in this game and why are you intent on tunnelling me?

I'm not being aggressive. You just feel intimidated

Hahahahahhaha and why would I be intimidated if you weren’t being aggressive? People only feel intimidated due to someone else exerting some form of behaviour over them, so if it’s not aggression from you. What is it?

[Brickwalll]

@Cactus, can you answer 586 please?

[Weuler]

Regarding my PR post. I only wrote it because now I see absolutely no indication that anything Charles did (not much) indicates their slot is PR, so I can't see how it would hurt town. (The converse is also true) My point was that Charles was acting in such an odd way, not being completely inactive, while still not being active at all that I was baffled at what his goal was. One of my theories was that he was a PR who had a good read on someone and wanted to investigate, without being night killed. A very weird strategy, but as I said his behaviour in the game was equally odd.

Anyway, the possibility of this being the case made me not want to eliminate him d1, as we had no info on him at all.