Newbie 2108 - Postgame

[Elements]

Perhaps you could explain why you are convinced on Pav being town?

Can you convince me Pav is scum?

[Elements]

I'm re-reading your most recent Pav posts

[Elements]

Brick, I think your analysis in 961 could easily be applied to Aureal.

[Aureal]

Of course you're not sold on it, you don't know what it is. Now you're considering a team of a player you apparently scum but are refusing to vote and one you've sain in your previous post you hope to is town.

I think I do. I asked you about cactus earlier, remember? And then didn't ask the obvious follow up question which BBT came up with later.

Cactus is either scum or just constantly uselessly tunneling on town and I would love to vote there. I'm going to look closer to see if I can find what makes you so certain about them first though.

Aureal is positioning herself to be able to either vote me or not depending on how the rest of the town go, I think this is very similar to how she's been playing for most of the game. Her play has been very fence sitty.

This is probably a fair assessment of how I play in general, but I find it odd applied to this game. I thought I've been more assertive than I used to be. You keep pulling the rug out from under me when I try to be, though.

I don't like how your emojis make me feel

[Elements]

Of course you're not sold on it, you don't know what it is. Now you're considering a team of a player you apparently scum but are refusing to vote and one you've sain in your previous post you hope to is town.

I think I do. I asked you about cactus earlier, remember? And then didn't ask the obvious follow up question which BBT came up with later.

Cactus is either scum or just constantly uselessly tunneling on town and I would love to vote there. I'm going to look closer to see if I can find what makes you so certain about them first though.

I re-assessd which has what's made me more sure

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I am starting to feel like this is probably reasonably like Pav's normal style though. He's played with Elements and Meg before, and on D1 they were all like "Pav feels natural" and "Pav is town" so

I had to just kind of shrug and resign myself to this being the status quo even though I was pretty suspicious of him

.

This is exactly what scum would do.

Know who else is overly certain? Cactus. Whom you've said is playing like you do when you are scum.

Yeah, we should elim him. Wanna vote him now?

Yeah, which is interesting given that Aureal scum reads him but seems unwilling to vote there.

Cite for me scum reading cactus?

You must be trolling me.

How could it be? You hadn't even read half the game.

Umm, I have already referenced my posts towards Weuler in my ISO. It was more than enough from what I had read.

Have you read posts #917, 918, and 988?
Let's see you do some wagon analysis. What do you think about Aureal's defense of the Meg and Weuler and decision to vanity wagon?

Your 917 and 918 contain next to nothing for wagon analysis. 988 could potentially hold some merit if you can show me evidence? Especially the 'setting people up' part.

Vanity wagons are scummy

Why?

Put more thought into what you actually want to know. I'll instead answer the question "Why do you think Aureal's vanity vote is scummy?"
Weuler was scummy so Aureal should think Weuler is scum unless she has a reason to not think he's scum
Aureal does not have a reason to think Weuler is town but is defending him.
Therefore, Aureal is scum

Umm, what? No, you said vanity wagons are scummy. I asked why. You then shifted the goalposts to 'Aureal's vanity vote was scummy' which is different to your initial generalisation which I asked about. Another example of you saying things that don't make sense.

Weuler was scummy because you say so? Or I say so? Clearly the people who thought Weuler was scum were wrong so now you're scum reading someone who was correctly town reading Weuler? Having ISO'd Aureal for their Weuler read, I think it flows pretty naturally. What are you seeing?

You don't think my reasoning for voting Weuler was solid?

No, I don't.

Well, it was.

Wagon composition.

I don't understand why you voted me, Elements.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Both Aureal and Idle picking apart my reasoning for voting Weuler makes it unlikely they're both scum FMPOV.

996 has me thinking that Idle could be town.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Hmm, is Aureal piggy backing off the back of Idle's posts.

They did it with me and my Weuler vote and they've just done it again with Idle questioning Elements.

[Elements]

Wagon composition.

I don't understand why you voted me, Elements.

Neither do I. Neither do I.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Can you just talk about the wagon composition comment for me?

[Elements]

Aureal/Idle are two slots I'm scum leaning and they were both on you so I decided there's scum voting you unvoted

[Brickwalll]

Brick, I think your analysis in 961 could easily be applied to Aureal.

I disagree. I think my analysis could be applied to you before it is applied to Aureal. This is in no way exonerating Aureal, I still have my doubts as I’ve made clear.

I don’t want it to detract from Pav though. I really think town should consider Pav tonight. Pretty much all town credibility to Pav has been passed by Elements, who is now in the firing line herself. Food for thought.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I had misread the reasoning behind that, hence my confusion.

That makes it pretty obvious. I don't think both Aureal and Idle can be scum together.

PEdit - Brick, can we not do Pav?

[Aureal]

Sure is hard for people with opposite styles to trust each other, isn't it BBT? You don't understand how I can lack confidence and I don't understand how you can have so much. I've had plenty of experience with people who talk big and it's frequently been that they can't be trusted. So I'm considering whether my mistrust of you was too rooted in that fundamental mistrustfulness part of my nature. I went back and saw a comment that I'd thought was you talking about mistrust of leadership was actually not you, so the hypocrisy I was picking up was misplaced.

Wondering if that post of Idle's is going to materialize.

I'd much prefer to go after Elements over Pav. The sudden haste to look less suspicious after getting wind of people being suspicious of her isn't a great look. Also maybe bogus reasons.

[IdleMuse]

Wondering if that post of Idle's is going to materialize.

Yeah I'm typing I got lost down ISO wells half-way through.

[Pavowski]

These are your next 4 posts, again you look busy and are interacting but I don't see town actually moving forward with these contributions. That is my concern with your posts and that is why I am voting for you. I am rushing now as my laptop battery is on its last legs and don't want to lose the post. But yeah, it might just be your playstyle and I will learn that. But, I will have to learn that by voting you out. To be honest I actually don't see how other townies think those posts are adding value for our hunt?

I don't think there is a lot of 'value' either, I hear ya. I am starting to feel like this is probably reasonably like Pav's normal style though. He's played with Elements and Meg before, and on D1 they were all like "Pav feels natural" and "Pav is town" so I had to just kind of shrug and resign myself to this being the status quo even though I was pretty suspicious of him.

I could be wrong here, but this post has me rethinking scum leanings on BBT. I don't know if BBT has meta'd me (the sig would lead me to think probably not), but regardless, and given Brick's (fair, I think) assessment of my posting this game, I'm a pretty easy mislim target. Given BBT's style, I don't think they'd pass on the opportunity.

You're an easy target? Man, why you gotta make me feel so inadequate for not being able to get you?

Are you trying to "get me"? You've expressed scumreads of me but haven't exactly pushed people to start the "yeet Pav" train. One might almost say you're tossing the idea out there to see if anybody bites, and moving on when they don't.

[IdleMuse]

Curious what value you see in cactus's mindset of "I had a bad read on Weuler therefore it's impossible that anybody else had a better one!"?

You mean 991? I indeed see no value at all in that, it's clearly just... wrong, and that's what I mean by flip-flopping, much of cactus' logic today I disagree with. Do you think that cactus' defenses and positive reads on me is an active attempt to pocket? I'm talking like 862, 917, 955, etc.

I think 988 is particularly suspicious: "My bad, keep thinking that Meg and Weuler are the same wagon since I didn't witness their formation first hand" - what?? I feel like only scum make mistakes like this, because they aren't paying as much attention necessarily to the differences between town-aligned players (since, at a basic level, eliminating either of them is desirable, whereas town should be trying harder to actually ascertain alignment. That said it's not a strong case, I'm just confused how anyone could confuse the two wagons, town OR scum. Just leans scum to me).

I also think writing anything off as a 'vanity' vote or wagon is kinda unhelpful, like, maybe I'm misunderstanding how the term is being used.

Actually BBT said it well:

Weuler was scummy because you say so? Or I say so? Clearly the people who thought Weuler was scum were wrong so now you're scum reading someone who was correctly town reading Weuler? Having ISO'd Aureal for their Weuler read, I think it flows pretty naturally. What are you seeing?

I've been holding off on posting my reads on BBT because I was waiting for some casework on cactus from them, which I think 1030 probably counts as? I'd still like to hear more about what reads lead BBT to voting cactus right out of the gate today, because I still don't understand where that came from, and I don't want to forget that in light of better analysis today - you can't retroactively explain your reads based on stuff they've posted today (that said, I can't see both BBT and cactus being scum together, so I need to think about this a bit more tbh).

But then I scroll down further and see:

Brick, can we not do Pav?

Yet another comment sans explanation (

[Pavowski]

Okay let me give some content. I'm not great at scumhunting but I feel I'm pretty decent at townhunting. (This is a statement that will never ever come back to bite me in the ass, don't worry about it.) Without going back and re-reading the entire thread, I can say that at various times I've perceived:

A couple good reasons to townread Aureal
Few but compelling reasons to TR BBT
Few and not super-compelling reasons to TR Brick
Few and not super-compelling reasons to TR Elements
Not many reasons to TR Cactus particularly
Not many reasons to TR Idle particularly

When I add my vibe checks the list looks like Idle>Cactus>Brick>Elements>BBT>Aureal

Which means if I'm going to trust my unfailing spider sense here I should be prepared to vote Idle or Cactus.

I need to re-read the last few pages to see if I still feel this way. I also want to re-read Aureal since I said yesterday I'd do that and haven't gotten to it yet. I'm around to answer questions btw -- I've ended up with some unexpected time tonight.

I might also screw around and look at wagons but I'm not sure how useful that's likely to be.

[Pavowski]

Aureal is positioning herself to be able to either vote me or not depending on how the rest of the town go, I think this is very similar to how she's been playing for most of the game. Her play has been very fence sitty.

This actually jives with my feel on her posts about me

[Pavowski]

I know 294 has been talked to death but I have recently been thinking how hilarious it would be if it were a scum!Elements creation.

Lost the exact post where Elements said she regretted creating it now which actually strikes me as very unscummy

[IdleMuse]

UNVOTE: BBT

VOTE: Elements

My strongest scumread right now. I'm not discounting the theory BBT proposed in 1032, but right now I don't see anywhere I'd rather vote.

[Elements]

inb4aurealvotesme

[Elements]

UNVOTE: BBT

VOTE: Elements

My strongest scumread right now. I'm not discounting the theory BBT proposed in 1032, but right now I don't see anywhere I'd rather vote.

why do you think I'm scum?

[Elements]

If you've already said can you post link me pls

[IdleMuse]

I know 294 has been talked to death but I have recently been thinking how hilarious it would be if it were a scum!Elements creation.

Lost the exact post where Elements said she regretted creating it now which actually strikes me as very unscummy

I know 294 has been talked to death but I have recently been thinking how hilarious it would be if it were a scum!Elements creation.Lost the exact post where Elements said she regretted creating it now which actually strikes me as very unscummy

I'm also kinda done with discussion of 294 tbh, it was so early in the game at this point. I don't think being sick of how much people keep referring back to the VERY basic reads in it is particularly alignment-indicative.

I'm very tempted to my own followup pair-chart now we have pages and pages of _actual_ gameplay to refer to, rather than just some RVS interactions and a bit of early game sounding-out. But sadly I don't think I have a block of time free to do a project like that until Sunday which iirc is after the day end.