Open 870 | White Flag Mountainous | Postgame

[Aristeia]

i drank too much sake at lunch

[Shirou]

has norwee town ever caught shirou scum and gotten him limmed?

The limmed part no but he did suspect me in the beetle game so I NK'd him on N1

I think he feels pressured on reading me well because I'm okay at reading him so far and he probably knows me personally the most in the site (we chat every other day on discord), so I don't see the issue you've with him on that because so far he hasn't been wrong about me.

Now, do I think I can make him townread me as scum though?

Kinda...I'm curious to try my luck

[Aubrey]

Let’s leave the old vs. new for a different topic thread. In a argumentative writing scenario it’s hard for me to track with it, and harder for me to be persuaded on. So when y’all are going off on it, it’s just noise to me.

[Aubrey]

Now where’s my arthritis meds…

[Gamma Emerald]

I'll go here since I am skeptical of the expectation that I would be more solvy rn

Is that really the only thing you're voting them on?

I get a vibe that Aubrey might have figured I was a safe target because I was dialing things back
also think there may have been some meta talk in a theoretical scumchat that led to the prior idea

[Klick]

I saw your readslist, I thought it was overall odd. I kept reading, I thought pina's posts weren't *that* bad and that I could understand if someone was townreading her. I don't know which posts specifically did it, it probably wasn't any specific post; I could go back and pick some posts but this feels like a waste of time and I am highly skeptical this is something that is like, actually thought to be AI by anyone.

I'm mostly frustrated that when I asked you this initially your response was 'sure I can answer that, but can you answer this first?' and now I've done that and you still haven't given a proper answer
But I'll drop it for now

Do you have higher expectations of Ari? (Also @pina, I did not assume so because I don't recall Klick and Ari playing together.) Or has everyone else done something that you would consider something that scum wouldn't do?

These are not the only two options
I don't have

higher expectations

of Ari particularly as a player outside of the context of this game
I DO feel like Ari has posted a lot more of actual meaningful substance than most players thus far
I'm used to getting townreads out of that kind of content
But I'm not getting that with Ari and I think that could potentially be a sign that she's scum

Put another way, it reminds me of Dunnstral in the C9++ game we were both in. Dunnstral kept posting content and I enjoyed the content but it never looked towny.

Why am I scum?

Same reason as Ari basically
You're both in the 'interestingly not town' section of my readslist

[giuseppina]

Why was this specifically not true for your giuseppina read at post 79, but it was specifically true at post 109? As implied by this post:

It was not "specifically true" or whatever. I started off the game thinking pina is weird and stilted, in a way I find scummy from her, especially post 24. I saw your readslist, I thought it was overall odd. I kept reading, I thought pina's posts weren't *that* bad and that I could understand if someone was townreading her. I don't know which posts specifically did it, it probably wasn't any specific post; I could go back and pick some posts but this feels like a waste of time and I am highly skeptical this is something that is like, actually thought to be AI by anyone.

Do you have higher expectations of Ari? (Also @pina, I did not assume so because I don't recall Klick and Ari playing together.) Or has everyone else done something that you would consider something that scum wouldn't do?

Why am I scum?

interesting that you also use stilted to describe 24 just as thegoldenparadox did

but also,

i don’t generally post most of the possibilities i am considering on a post by post level especially not before trying to weigh their likelihoods (well anymore i used to more often) like i did there because they make a mess of the game

i did so in that case because aubrey seemed to be being scumread for reasons i could potentially understand as other than them being separate posts there was nothing that seemed towny to me and they reacted to the votes by asking if it was about their avatar - as if they thought it was only rvs related or something, maybe to defuse instead of trying to engage those doing so

[Aubrey]

I'll go here since I am skeptical of the expectation that I would be more solvy rn

Is that really the only thing you're voting them on?

I get a vibe that Aubrey might have figured I was a safe target because I was dialing things back
also think there may have been some meta talk in a theoretical scumchat that led to the prior idea

Una’s the one voting you. I just said your early game was questionable.

[Gamma Emerald]

I'll go here since I am skeptical of the expectation that I would be more solvy rn

Is that really the only thing you're voting them on?

I get a vibe that Aubrey might have figured I was a safe target because I was dialing things back
also think there may have been some meta talk in a theoretical scumchat that led to the prior idea

Una’s the one voting you. I just said your early game was questionable.

What’s to say you wouldn’t have continued that line of thought had I not decided to call it out?

[Klick]

Spoiler: actual useless post (aka my attempt at being a "boomer" by talking about site history)

Meta has little to no grounds or basis in my eyes. The only meta comment Ive taken stock in was when whoever said you typically stall on votes. Other than that, it’s been in one ear and out the other across the board.

Isn't it curious how after Ellie "happened" the site mostly moved on from this argument (the "is meta trash or not")? I'm not "truly" an old player for a 20 years old site so I haven't read too many "truly old" games but I feel this is an opinion/take on meta that used to be way more common before 2017/2018 or so happened

But there's like, still lost sheep in the limbo we're all in known as

"figuring out mafia"

, they haven't seen some glimpses of light relatively recently showed.

I for one am in this camp as well, but in a reformist way. I think meta can tell us some things, and if you dive deep and methodically into it, sinking truly a lot of time, money, effort or all those combined, you may be able to create individual frameworks on how to read the individuals rather than trying to freestyle between using "general statistical tells" and your "experience" with the player be it watching or playing together with them (basically meta). However I don't think it's how it's "intended" to be, or even realistically can be played by most people, and in my experience I would say the "I know X meta a lot trust me on this read here" argument has failed me at Live 4K resolution more than 50% of the games.

Getting some truly reliable tells can be harder than what we often believe imo...

I would say, "good meta is king, no meta is okay and bad meta is trash"

This was my "current state of play in mafiascum dot com" TED Talk for tonight thank you

I largely agree with this perspective with a few slight differences
I think meta tells are as accurate as one's actual ability to put together an accurate framework of how a person thinks/behaves (and in that sense it doesn't even have to be 'meta', this process can be followed within the context of a single game)
Meta is an incredibly powerful scumhunting tool that almost everyone uses improperly even when their conclusions are right

[Aubrey]

Well simple Gamma! Your not a anime girl

[NorwegianboyEE]

Wrong form of your/you're omg.

[Lucian]

and now I've done that and you still haven't given a proper answer

That was always going to be my answer... I just don't like answering before others answer what I asked of them first. >_>

[Gamma Emerald]

Well simple Gamma! Your not a anime girl

cringe + L + ratio + kinda scummy actually
Like, letting avatars dictate your gameplay could be an easy way to avoid having to actually solve

[Gamma Emerald]

Also, 9 times out of 10 I probably would be an anime girl

[Lucian]

That's. Fine. I guess. "I don't have a townread off this person and they have posted a lot of things" is a more nuanced take than what I gave it credit for at first. Annoying that I have no way of verifying any of that but that's how mafia works sometimes.

[Una]

Aubrey is joking..gamma are you maf

[Toto]

Klick town. The interestingly not town assessment is pretty townie imo. Its something I think scum would have a hard time assessing and I tend to agree with her.

[Lucian]

Well simple Gamma! Your not a anime girl

cringe + L + ratio + kinda scummy actually
Like, letting avatars dictate your gameplay could be an easy way to avoid having to actually solve

If this post wasn't meant as a joke, I struggle seeing a town player with a straight face type this post out. Like really?

[Lucian]

Aubrey is joking..gamma are you maf

Oh no.

[Aubrey]

I guess Gamma is fine though. Pushing me on some mafia PT meta talk just seems odd to come from a mafian push…


What type of math are they teaching y’all

[Una]

I think Klick's interestingnottown stuff is slightly towny. It's easy to understand the framework and remember it as scum but a little dating to apply it to people when yout detractors can go "whoa those people are so interesting"
Should be a little careful of town locking a good MD post tho

[Gamma Emerald]

Klick town. The interestingly not town assessment is pretty townie imo. Its something I think scum would have a hard time assessing and I tend to agree with her.

How so
I don’t think it’s that hard to fake “I would expect to townread you by now” as scum, which is what that parses as

[giuseppina]

wait why did

aristeia vote una tho

and did aristeia actually tell aubrey not voting is common for me somewhere in the thread?

[giuseppina]

because Aubrey said as much somewhere but, uh, i don’t see where