Cosmos Mafia (Postgame)

[Past Present Future]

Oops quote

I don't think Lunar conversion is likely

What do you think their factional ability is if not delayed kills?

[Dingle Dangle Scarecrow]

You are a

Lunar Starmaster

While you are alive, whenever your faction successfully performs a factional action on a player, you will passively learn the role of the target. If your faction targets a member of the

Solar Cult

, you will receive a result of vanilla, regardless of the target's role.
[REDACTED]
You win when your faction makes up half of the living players, and no members of the

Solar Cult

are alive.

MMR's role combined with Firebringer's implies a set of relatively weak factional abilities, with MMR's role intended to amplify the overall utility of these abilities

[Dingle Dangle Scarecrow]

Oops quote

I don't think Lunar conversion is likely

What do you think their factional ability is if not delayed kills?

I dunno. Things like Tracker, Watcher, Doc, etc?
There is zero evidence that Lunar have any killing ability and there have been four Nights

[Dingle Dangle Scarecrow]

We have reason to suspect you were targeted by one of these factional abilities

[Dingle Dangle Scarecrow]

Based on Lunar's roles the only flipped Lunar that makes sense as someone who was converted is Ydrasse. And I would consider Ydrasse a very unlikely choice for conversion target.

If we've eliminated all of the original Lunar scum and are going to lose to recruit T-Bone and his fifth recruited member of the scumteam, then I'm kinda fine with that also you should pick us to randomly be a winner please.

[Past Present Future]

So a couple of things

I wasn't entirely forthcoming with my claim yesterday. Fullclaim for real this time:

1. I am still a Town Guardian. I can give a shield to someone every Night (not Noons). The shielded person is protected from

one

negative effect or kill (my original claim implied it'd protect from

all

negative effects or kills). The shield is effective from that Night until the following Night (it can prevent a dayvig as well as a kill or negative effect during Noons) or until it is broken.

If my shield protects someone

, I get a message saying the shield was broken.

I omitted this part from my claim initially, because by suggesting my shield made my target impervious to multiple things, I thought I could discourage Scum from targeting my shielded person entirely. Whereas if I made it clear that my shield was limited in effect, it'd be a free for all every time I claimed that my shield broke.

2. In 7747 - where I originally "fullclaimed" - I said I had my shield in front of DDS starting with Night 3 -

this was a lie

. I had my shield in front of Meuh. Every single Night this game, I've placed my shield in front of Meuh. The only times Meuh has been targeted were Noon 1 and Noon 3 (aka last night).

As for why lie about my target, I thought DDS was very town by their dayplay & they were a strong Solar kill contender due to mod confirmation that they're not Solar. I thought I could divert the Solar kill away from them and onto either Meuh - who I had my active unprocced shield in front of - or divert the kill onto me (which is also fine imo because professotic had been yelling I was Lunar for the better part of yesterday).

Needless to say Meuh is dead, and my gambit failed spectacularly. I did get a message saying my shield broke last night while protecting her. Some things about this:

1. I wasn't roleblocked or vanillaized - because I did get the broken shield message
2. Meuh wasn't hit by a strongman - or at least not

only

a strongman - I know this because I only get the broken shield message when my shield

successfully

protects someone from a kill or negative effect (I also confirmed this with the mod)
3.

Scum had to have hit Meuh with two different things last night

I've deliberated whether or not to fullclaim here, but I feel the gambit has not been useful (kind of the opposite in fact lol) and in case I die, I worry this info will be lost/be misleading later. Either the last Solar is some sort of Scum PR role & multitasked on Meuh last night

OR

Lunar & Solar can both act during a Noon and doubled up on Meuh. Also if Lunar are arsonists, Meuh was never targeted by Lunar, so she was never doused.

I think you’re wrong about that @Dangle, How do you account for the bolded then if Lunar doesn’t have delayed kills?

[Enchant]

Fine. I actually don't care to lose to Lunar too.

Who is solar though

[T-Bone]

On one hand, it feels incorrect to me that we would correctly eliminate 5/8 times and that leave us in 3-1-1

On the other hand, Lunar seems blatantly less powerful than Solar with the info we have. The Lunar factional abilities would have to be rather strong without a fourth Lunar for it to make sense

I think aiming for Solar today is correct regardless

I think 4-1 against Solar is most likely but it's worth exploring the other possibility.

[Dingle Dangle Scarecrow]

Meuh died at Noon
Solar kills at Noon
Solar probably killed Meuh

Meuh was targeted by *some* negative effect at Noon. I don't know what Meuh was targeted by. We don't have enough evidence to know what Meuh was targeted by. We don't have sufficient evidence that *Lunar has delayed kills* is the answer to what we don't know.

[Dingle Dangle Scarecrow]

Fine. I actually don't care to lose to Lunar too.

Who is solar though

You or PPF mate

It ain't T-Bone
I very strongly doubt it's Magician

[Past Present Future]

Based on Lunar's roles the only flipped Lunar that makes sense as someone who was converted is Ydrasse. And I would consider Ydrasse a very unlikely choice for conversion target.

If we've eliminated all of the original Lunar scum and are going to lose to recruit T-Bone and his fifth recruited member of the scumteam, then I'm kinda fine with that also you should pick us to randomly be a winner please.

I’m sorry, I’m totally not following this.

I thought MMR had targeted me but now I’m less sure but I’m going to assume Lunar knew that like Mastina I had the town version of Fire’s role, which is why both were hard pocketing me.

[Dingle Dangle Scarecrow]

Meuh died at Noon
Solar kills at Noon
Solar probably killed Meuh

Meuh was targeted by *some* negative effect at Noon. I don't know what Meuh was targeted by. We don't have enough evidence to know what Meuh was targeted by. We don't have sufficient evidence that *Lunar has delayed kills* is the answer to what we don't know.

I think the most likely answer to this is 'the last Solar has a negative effect'

[T-Bone]

I can think of a bunch of things that are powerful that aren't recruitments for lunar.

1. Maybe they just had a failed kill or kills.
2. Total immunity to night actions
3. Mass lightning rod ability
4. Fake flip for a player who died
5. Some other crazy mess with night actions ability

So like the answer doesn't have to be delayed kills or recruitment for their factional ability.

[Dingle Dangle Scarecrow]

Based on Lunar's roles the only flipped Lunar that makes sense as someone who was converted is Ydrasse. And I would consider Ydrasse a very unlikely choice for conversion target.

If we've eliminated all of the original Lunar scum and are going to lose to recruit T-Bone and his fifth recruited member of the scumteam, then I'm kinda fine with that also you should pick us to randomly be a winner please.

I’m sorry, I’m totally not following this.

I thought MMR had targeted me but now I’m less sure but I’m going to assume Lunar knew that like Mastina I had the town version of Fire’s role, which is why both were hard pocketing me.

I'm saying that it's incredibly unlikely that Lunar has a) a fourth member and b) a recruiting ability, which is what Enchant was expressing concern about.

[Dingle Dangle Scarecrow]

4. Fake flip for a player who died

I briefly had this thought as well, it fit nicely with flavor
I'm not really interested in playing around it though

[Past Present Future]

So a couple of things

I wasn't entirely forthcoming with my claim yesterday. Fullclaim for real this time:

1. I am still a Town Guardian. I can give a shield to someone every Night (not Noons). The shielded person is protected from

one

negative effect or kill (my original claim implied it'd protect from

all

negative effects or kills). The shield is effective from that Night until the following Night (it can prevent a dayvig as well as a kill or negative effect during Noons) or until it is broken.

If my shield protects someone

, I get a message saying the shield was broken.

I omitted this part from my claim initially, because by suggesting my shield made my target impervious to multiple things, I thought I could discourage Scum from targeting my shielded person entirely. Whereas if I made it clear that my shield was limited in effect, it'd be a free for all every time I claimed that my shield broke.

2. In 7747 - where I originally "fullclaimed" - I said I had my shield in front of DDS starting with Night 3 -

this was a lie

. I had my shield in front of Meuh. Every single Night this game, I've placed my shield in front of Meuh. The only times Meuh has been targeted were Noon 1 and Noon 3 (aka last night).

As for why lie about my target, I thought DDS was very town by their dayplay & they were a strong Solar kill contender due to mod confirmation that they're not Solar. I thought I could divert the Solar kill away from them and onto either Meuh - who I had my active unprocced shield in front of - or divert the kill onto me (which is also fine imo because professotic had been yelling I was Lunar for the better part of yesterday).

Needless to say Meuh is dead, and my gambit failed spectacularly. I did get a message saying my shield broke last night while protecting her. Some things about this:

1. I wasn't roleblocked or vanillaized - because I did get the broken shield message
2. Meuh wasn't hit by a strongman - or at least not

only

a strongman - I know this because I only get the broken shield message when my shield

successfully

protects someone from a kill or negative effect (I also confirmed this with the mod)
3.

Scum had to have hit Meuh with two different things last night

I've deliberated whether or not to fullclaim here, but I feel the gambit has not been useful (kind of the opposite in fact lol) and in case I die, I worry this info will be lost/be misleading later. Either the last Solar is some sort of Scum PR role & multitasked on Meuh last night

OR

Lunar & Solar can both act during a Noon and doubled up on Meuh. Also if Lunar are arsonists, Meuh was never targeted by Lunar, so she was never doused.

I think you’re wrong about that @Dangle, How do you account for the bolded then if Lunar doesn’t have delayed kills?

@Dangle what really frustrates me to no end that you’re clearly ignoring evidence here of a delayed lunar kill. CSF said her shield was hit not once but twice and she firmly believed it wasn’t indicative of a strongman existing, so how you can insist delayed kills are impossible here, I totally do not understand.

[Dingle Dangle Scarecrow]

Meuh died at Noon
Solar kills at Noon
Solar probably killed Meuh

Meuh was targeted by *some* negative effect at Noon. I don't know what Meuh was targeted by. We don't have enough evidence to know what Meuh was targeted by. We don't have sufficient evidence that *Lunar has delayed kills* is the answer to what we don't know.

PPF.

This was a response to 8755.

I have ALSO not insisted that delayed kills are impossible.

There just isn't proper evidence for it, like you're saying there is.

[T-Bone]

Spoiler: Scarf Posts

Stop posting if you don't know your attunment

I am pretty sure power roles are all attuned, and VTs are not attuned, and mafia is going to pick this up quick, so DO NOT SAY IF YOU ARE NOT ATTUNED

UNVOTE:

I worded that wrong but I had to get the message out fast, because I think if you have any hints towards your attumenment then you are a PR and if you don't then you're a VT, mastina is a limited vanilla cop, probably limited so that she can't check the same person mulitple times to see if they've been recruited if that's a thing

Fwiw those quick posts from enchant and tbone make me think they are both very strongly town, but don't do anymore posting about your own attunement.

I know i've been playing pretty shitheaded lately but I did pick up on mastina's crumb about "revealing people's true colors" earlier, which is why i've been on every mastina counterwagon until i lost heart and gave up. I also crumbed that I picked up on it by saying i was pretty sure i knew mastina's role.

I've also more or less outed what i am by my recent posts so if i end up as a sacrifice today so be it.

These posts are why I voted Magician yesterday. I thought Scarf was claiming a PR at the time. Now that that slot has since claimed VT, I'm wondering if these sets of posts were TMI.

These posts started after Meuh's slot outted the existence of attunement and both myself and Enchant claimed to not have attunement in their Role PMs. We since learned then that no townies had that information in their PMs. So was Scarf putting info they had because they were scum and using it for town credit?

[T-Bone]

Somehow I broke the first quote, phone posting ftw

[Dingle Dangle Scarecrow]

I think you're misunderstanding CSF's role PPF

During the night phase, you may choose to give a player a shield. Players with a shield are protected from 1

negative effect or kill

(besides elimination).

There is no need for Meuh to have been targeted by two kills. Just one kill (the Solar one) and one other negative effect. It does not need to be a second kill.

[T-Bone]

If it's 4-1 then we can't let PPF get to 3p it's bad tactically. If it's 3-1-1 then it's better to let them get their to thwart solar but that gives Lunar the win.

I think tactically because we question whether PPF is solar or not...they might be the best move because of PPF is town then we skip night phase. Of course that leaves 4p Kingmaker if it's 3-1-1 right now. I almost want to say fuck it, if the game is still 3-1-1 somehow I'm not sure what we do to get out of it.

But I think either getting PPF because they are solar or triggering beloved princess to skip night is our best play. Whatever is left among us town doesn't need night phases anymore.

[Dingle Dangle Scarecrow]

Spoiler: Scarf Posts

Stop posting if you don't know your attunment

I am pretty sure power roles are all attuned, and VTs are not attuned, and mafia is going to pick this up quick, so DO NOT SAY IF YOU ARE NOT ATTUNED

UNVOTE:

I worded that wrong but I had to get the message out fast, because I think if you have any hints towards your attumenment then you are a PR and if you don't then you're a VT, mastina is a limited vanilla cop, probably limited so that she can't check the same person mulitple times to see if they've been recruited if that's a thing

Fwiw those quick posts from enchant and tbone make me think they are both very strongly town, but don't do anymore posting about your own attunement.

I know i've been playing pretty shitheaded lately but I did pick up on mastina's crumb about "revealing people's true colors" earlier, which is why i've been on every mastina counterwagon until i lost heart and gave up. I also crumbed that I picked up on it by saying i was pretty sure i knew mastina's role.

I've also more or less outed what i am by my recent posts so if i end up as a sacrifice today so be it.

These posts are why I voted Magician yesterday. I thought Scarf was claiming a PR at the time. Now that that slot has since claimed VT, I'm wondering if these sets of posts were TMI.

These posts started after Meuh's slot outted the existence of attunement and both myself and Enchant claimed to not have attunement in their Role PMs. We since learned then that no townies had that information in their PMs. So was Scarf putting info they had because they were scum and using it for town credit?

These posts read to me as a VT claim, particularly the last one

I don't take issue with the concern from a town perspective. I can see someone reasonably coming to the conclusions Scarf comes to as town.

[Past Present Future]

If it's 4-1 then we can't let PPF get to 3p it's bad tactically. If it's 3-1-1 then it's better to let them get their to thwart solar but that gives Lunar the win.

I think tactically because we question whether PPF is solar or not...they might be the best move because of PPF is town then we skip night phase. Of course that leaves 4p Kingmaker if it's 3-1-1 right now. I almost want to say fuck it, if the game is still 3-1-1 somehow I'm not sure what we do to get out of it.

But I think either getting PPF because they are solar or triggering beloved princess to skip night is our best play. Whatever is left among us town doesn't need night phases anymore.

I think it skips to noon so I don’t see how that’s the best play?

[T-Bone]

That might be me getting the phase names backwards again

[Dingle Dangle Scarecrow]

If it's 4-1 then we can't let PPF get to 3p it's bad tactically. If it's 3-1-1 then it's better to let them get their to thwart solar but that gives Lunar the win.

I think tactically because we question whether PPF is solar or not...they might be the best move because of PPF is town then we skip night phase. Of course that leaves 4p Kingmaker if it's 3-1-1 right now. I almost want to say fuck it, if the game is still 3-1-1 somehow I'm not sure what we do to get out of it.

But I think either getting PPF because they are solar or triggering beloved princess to skip night is our best play. Whatever is left among us town doesn't need night phases anymore.

Why do we value skipping Night over skipping Noon? We've seen no real evidence that Night negatively impacts us