HMS Mutiny [Game Over]

[Save The Dragons]

which one

*bangs head against wall*

[Save The Dragons]

who *bang* on *bang* your *bang* wagon *bang* is *bang* scared *bang* of *bang* frogster *bang* do *bang* you *bang* think *bang* if *bang* i'm *bang* telling *bang* you *bang* that *bang* I *bang* don't *bang* care *bang*

[Save The Dragons]

please im practically begging you not to dodge this question anymore

[Save The Dragons]

i want names

[Elements]

I'm tired and v/la this weekend so I'll read what I haven't yet on Monday
UNVOTE: as stuff with other players has happened

[Aisa]

1.05

Votecount 1.05

Save The Dragons (5):

Killing Joke, Wayward Son, ActionDan, BlueBloodedToffee, HighPrincessErinys.

Killing Joke (2):

Flea The Magician, Radical Rat.

HighPrincessErinys (2):

Passenger, Save The Dragons.

Bellaphant (1):

Malakittens.

Wayward Son (1):

Titus.

Elements (1):

Bellaphant.

No Elimination (1):

Eiralox.

Not Voting (3):

Enchant, Andresvmb, Elements.

With 16 players alive, it takes 9 to eliminate someone.

Day 1 ends in (expired on 2023-01-20 01:00:00).

Mod Notes

• Elements is V/LA for the weekend.

[Malakittens]

also who cares

who?

[Save The Dragons]

[Malakittens]

Who asked?

'Cuz it wasn't us.

[Save The Dragons]

is there a serious question in there

[Aisa]

Prodding Andresvmb.

[Malakittens]

VOTE: andre

chooooooooooochoooooooooooooooooooomotherfucker

[Aisa]

Warning Flea The Magician and Killing Joke about posts including 294 and 301; specifics will be discussed by PM.

A general reminder to be kind to your fellow players.

[HighPrincessErinys]

Ouuuuuh this was a lot. After reading from 117, this one's main thoughts are: Joker had a half-decent case against StD early on, but that's since kinda crumbled. His tone is kinda wacky and his points against Elements, Flea, and StD have all gotten out of whack, but it honestly... doesn't scumread him all that much. It feels like town misplaying rather than scum shitpushing from what it knows firsthand of his meta. Some of Harley's later posts (i.e. 265 immediately under Flea stating that faer not ignoring her at all and 267 saying NO YOU TOTALLY ARE IGNORING ME) feel

bad

though.

That being said! StD doesn't look so good either even if Joker's case isn't quite so good anymore. His ISO is very dodgy in general but in particular 231 is just groanworthy. Scumlean here, and can't help but feel his reactions and posts have built a more convincing case against himself than the logic Joker was levying.

Going to say that this one also somewhat strongly townreads Flea, this one likes faer posts and points quite a bit.

Theres strong crossovers in this list to the frog/eira game recently, so I'm going to try to keep open minded to hpe and elements.

Forgot to say and you reminded this one; hi Bella!

VOTE: killing joke

VOTE: elements

Half unrelated: Explanations on these votes would be nice, especially when it can kind of see the Elements vote but would like more thoughts from others.

What

do

you see?

That this one didn't like Elements' ISO very much, and still doesn't. Scumlean on Elements.

Fuck it, VOTE: Save The Dragons

there is no analysis going on and the hesitation makes me worry. If HPE is town, why is there hesitation to get on my wagon? Furthermore, what's dodgy? What's wrong with the post listed (it's a jokey post but it's how I see the game, i don't know how you could scumread it without explaining why)? Why do you tr flea?

I think this has the best chance of hitting scum.

VOTE: HPE

This one kinda hates your ISO, kinda loves Flea's. Your respective vibes from your ISOs are "rancid" and "pretty good" and this one appreciates the way Flea has been arguing against Harley, even if it's mostly a duel about metas this one doesn't know a lick about, nor cares to read up on.

Your

ISO is full of filler, and it doesn't just mean the post wasting, and you generally just haven't posted much meaningful content, similarly to Elements. Beyond this it's mostly just vibes and how this one views the attitudes you've both taken in your posts. It wasn't "hesitation" so much as just letting the post sit for a moment and thinking on this one's own points, there was less than 10 minutes between the two posts, after all.

this took way too long to post. bleh, business...

[Malakittens]

If I could have everyone sheep me we will eliminate one scum butt

PLEASE JOIN ME IN THIS GLORIOUS PILLAGE OF SCUMBLOOD AND MUTINY

AYYOOOOHOOOO
THE SAILORS GO
DOWN TO THE DAVY JONES LOCKERRRR

[Malakittens]

If I could have everyone sheep me we will eliminate one scum butt

PLEASE JOIN ME IN THIS GLORIOUS PILLAGE OF SCUMBLOOD AND MUTINY

AYYOOOOHOOOO
THE SAILORS GO
DOWN TO THE DAVY JONES LOCKERRRR

[Radical Rat]

The lad's not even woken up yet! Do ye not have anythin' to say about the folks actually on deck?

[Killing Joke]

tl;dr

Scum read Dragons/Elements/Flea/ActionDan (strongest - weakest)

Dialing down content wrt scum!Flea

Ask if you want my Town reads

__

Joker had a half-decent case against StD early on, but that's since kinda crumbled. His tone is kinda wacky and his points against Elements, Flea, and StD have all gotten out of whack, but it honestly... doesn't scumread him all that much. It feels like town misplaying rather than scum shitpushing from what it knows firsthand of his meta.

I think my

soul

ISO could have benefited a lot from judicial editing.

Someone asked why I read rr's gimmick different, but it's because there is actuall content.

@std, why?

@Bella

How do you feel about Eira's recent posts?

The lad's not even woken up yet! Do ye not have anythin' to say about the folks actually on deck?

@Rat

Can you talk about your read on Harley a little bit if you're still here? How tempted are you to see Dragon's flip instead and let our slot potentially resolve itself?

but let's say for argument's sake i did believe that to be the case.

who do you think is scared of frogster that's voting you?

Your vote, Elements' vote and Flea vote were all fear IMO. I think the fear from you and Elements is so strong even your fear votes themselves have fled from us (325, 354.) I think Rats is the only Town slot that's gotten on us IIRC.

Warning Flea The Magician and Killing Joke about posts including 294 and 301; specifics will be discussed by PM.

A general reminder to be kind to your fellow players.

When fights escalate to this level it's usually TvT IME with some exceptions. Apparently scum!Flea has executed something like this successfully once before to town!Pooky so it's within faer's scum range:

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=84991&user_select%5B%5D=34888

I feel strongly Flea is scum and I can also recognize objectively the likelihood of a TvT thunderdome so I'm going to put my read wrt Flea specifically on ice and hope that slot can be resolved mechanically.

If I could have everyone sheep me we will eliminate one scum butt

Sheep us D1 + D2 to initiate Town sweep

A tiny bit, been working; should have no more obligations tonight so I can spend quality time reading. To do this properly you have to read a lot.

I haven't gotten to brass tacks yet with kj vs. Everyone, but I just wanted to say that Mala looks to be clearly town now

I hate using associatives preflip. No one has ever amazed me and no one ever will.

I will take an honest slog through the meta. Reading those other games. Determining if existence is pointless. The usual

I'm still waiting for you to follow up on any of these promises to do something later.

As far as I'm concerned, talking about posts you will make later which never happen are +scum. Cagey comments about HPE, Killing Joke and Mala looking Town (45, 167, 277 respectively) appear borne of TMI and therefore +scum. Passive aggressive "kj sucks" implications appear like scum contempt and are therefore +scum (277, 245, 321.) If I really cared to stare deeply into your

soul

ISO, I could probably throw the whole book at you as far as "typical low energy scum poster voting scum buddy while shading active Town slots" go.

In fact, let me test my theory. I will open your ISO as long as I can and see if I can spot an example of "typical low energy scum poster voting scum buddy while shading active Town slots."

Ahh yes, ~5 seconds in and immediately something jumps out at me:

Read up.

VOTE: StD

First, this isn't a reaction test if he's willing to use associatives to divine a read on Elements 137. So let's make this simple: It's a bad vote against someone likely town. If there was "something to see" show us.

Town reads on RR who has essentially spent his time chastising someone in role play mode for voting a no Elim do not make sense to me.

Bella, what makes RR's posting a different caliber to eria's?

Flea's 111 sucked.

I think wayward has done alright extricating himself. I'll choose to believe his posts at face value.

Elements' posting leaves a lot to be desired but I'm not getting particularly strong scum feelings from them either.

Then again 164 is... not pleasant to read

First of all, after writing everything about Dragons, you can't resist immediately undercutting yourself to take a jab at a recent Wayword Sons post. Hmm, I wonder if Wayword Sons is Town? That would explain a lot..

Second of all: now taking a closer look, I realize you weren't detailing your FoS on Dragons in 167. Your big post + vote on Dragons is an assortment of--in my opinion--superficial one-liners which have little to do with Dragons. IIRC Bella answered your question on Rats compared to Eira (211) and you never followed up. The hedgy read on Elements at the end of 167 is the worst part! Dodgy stuff all around aside from the Dragon vote itself.

[Save The Dragons]

Your vote, Elements' vote and Flea vote were all fear IMO

You're several plums short of a fruitcake dude

[Killing Joke]

tl;dr

Scum read Dragons/Elements/Flea/ActionDan (strongest - weakest)

Dialing down content wrt scum!Flea

Ask if you want my Town reads

__

Joker had a half-decent case against StD early on, but that's since kinda crumbled. His tone is kinda wacky and his points against Elements, Flea, and StD have all gotten out of whack, but it honestly... doesn't scumread him all that much. It feels like town misplaying rather than scum shitpushing from what it knows firsthand of his meta.

I think my

soul

ISO could have benefited a lot from judicial editing.

Someone asked why I read rr's gimmick different, but it's because there is actuall content.

@std, why?

@Bella

How do you feel about Eira's recent posts?

The lad's not even woken up yet! Do ye not have anythin' to say about the folks actually on deck?

@Rat

Can you talk about your read on Harley a little bit if you're still here? How tempted are you to see Dragon's flip instead and let our slot potentially resolve itself?

but let's say for argument's sake i did believe that to be the case.

who do you think is scared of frogster that's voting you?

Your vote, Elements' vote and Flea vote were all fear IMO. I think the fear from you and Elements is so strong even your fear votes themselves have fled from us (325, 354.) I think Rats is the only Town slot that's gotten on us IIRC.

Warning Flea The Magician and Killing Joke about posts including 294 and 301; specifics will be discussed by PM.

A general reminder to be kind to your fellow players.

When fights escalate to this level it's usually TvT IME with some exceptions. Apparently scum!Flea has executed something like this successfully once before to town!Pooky so it's within faer's scum range:

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=84991&user_select%5B%5D=34888

I feel strongly Flea is scum and I can also recognize objectively the likelihood of a TvT thunderdome so I'm going to put my read wrt Flea specifically on ice and hope that slot can be resolved mechanically.

If I could have everyone sheep me we will eliminate one scum butt

Sheep us D1 + D2 to initiate Town sweep

A tiny bit, been working; should have no more obligations tonight so I can spend quality time reading. To do this properly you have to read a lot.

I haven't gotten to brass tacks yet with kj vs. Everyone, but I just wanted to say that Mala looks to be clearly town now

I hate using associatives preflip. No one has ever amazed me and no one ever will.

I will take an honest slog through the meta. Reading those other games. Determining if existence is pointless. The usual

I'm still waiting for you to follow up on any of these promises to do something later.

As far as I'm concerned, talking about posts you will make later which never happen are +scum. Cagey comments about HPE, Killing Joke and Mala looking Town (45, 167, 277 respectively) appear borne of TMI and therefore +scum. Passive aggressive "kj sucks" implications appear like scum contempt and are therefore +scum (277, 245, 321.) If I really cared to stare deeply into your

soul

ISO, I could probably throw the whole book at you as far as "typical low energy scum poster voting scum buddy while shading active Town slots" go.

In fact, let me test my theory. I will open your ISO as long as I can and see if I can spot an example of "typical low energy scum poster voting scum buddy while shading active Town slots."

Ahh yes, ~5 seconds in and immediately something jumps out at me:

Read up.

VOTE: StD

First, this isn't a reaction test if he's willing to use associatives to divine a read on Elements 137. So let's make this simple: It's a bad vote against someone likely town. If there was "something to see" show us.

Town reads on RR who has essentially spent his time chastising someone in role play mode for voting a no Elim do not make sense to me.

Bella, what makes RR's posting a different caliber to eria's?

Flea's 111 sucked.

I think wayward has done alright extricating himself. I'll choose to believe his posts at face value.

Elements' posting leaves a lot to be desired but I'm not getting particularly strong scum feelings from them either.

Then again 164 is... not pleasant to read

First of all, after writing everything about Dragons, you can't resist immediately undercutting yourself to take a jab at a recent Wayword Sons post. Hmm, I wonder if Wayword Sons is Town? That would explain a lot..

Second of all: now taking a closer look, I realize you weren't detailing your FoS on Dragons in 167. Your big post + vote on Dragons is an assortment of--in my opinion--superficial one-liners which have little to do with Dragons. IIRC Bella answered your question on Rats compared to Eira (211) and you never followed up. The hedgy read on Elements at the end of 167 is the worst part! Dodgy stuff all around aside from the Dragon vote itself.

@Joker, I very much regret posting that ISO. I think Flea was extremely upset I did that. I don’t think fae did that to me intentionally. And you probably didn’t realize that I already posted it but please don’t do it anymore. <3

~Harley

Warning Flea The Magician and Killing Joke about posts including 294 and 301; specifics will be discussed by PM.

A general reminder to be kind to your fellow players.

The fact that me and fae have hurt each ither this much is something I want no part of. I was extremely triggered by faer - irrespective of intent- seriously arguing that a game where I was in objectively terrible shape emotionally, was somehow chill and calm where as here, I’m practically bouncing off the rails or something when I’m obviously not but I very much regret posting that ISO because whatever Flea is here, I very obviously hurt faer by doing that and that’s pretty much the very last thing I’d ever want to do. :/

[Killing Joke]

Spoiler:

Why is killing Joke scum for scumhunting?

Even if they're wrong, I've been seeing some weird takes on them. A few people basically voting for them either cos they're... solving? or cos I guess their tone doesn't gel well.

Regardless of KJ's true loyalties, what I'm seeing is them saying they found scum on the one side, seemingly believing and sticking with their point with definite progression.

From the other side I mostly see: 'So wrong' 'How can you' 'And wow why u sus so many ppl'.

Now.... My mind's nowhere set. But it's weird that so few people are willing to actively discuss the possibility of Dragons/Elements/Flea with KJ, and how, in a sense, Dragons, Elements, and Flea are ranged against KJ, and don't really seem to be mistrusting of each other? Or focused on a threat? I can expand on my feelings but I won't, for now.

As I said, KJ can be wrong. It's just weird, them being scum for it. I know there's way more that's been said but this is the main vibe I've got.

At the time, Nancy was a priority sort for me as ive said previously shes a player i both respect and fear. She's damned good at this usually without resorting to an endless tirade of links. The others positioning was irrelevant, its something for me to try and look back on as I was focused on KJ at the time.

I don't think they're scum hunting, frog hit TSTBS which as far as Im concerned is still scummy, honestly. The fact youre echoing what KJ has declared as a team is amusing to me, and if love for you to expand on those feelings

Huh view last unread post didn't take me to the actual last unread post, anyway, awake, fed, watered, medicated once again, not in the golden zone as my brain is doing its thing (Apparently S came out during a game last night and made it spicy) but lets go. Anything mentioned KJ is being overlooked at this point as I'm done with that slot for the sake of my sanity.

VOTE: Bella

I’m ok with this vote for now.
I don’t really feel like Bella is sorting. I also don’t really find a lot of her posts memorable. I also dislike some of the posts she made.

See, I'd like to know more bout this.

Why should posts be memorable this early?

Out of Enchant, BlueBloodedToffee and others, why specifically is Bellaphant the one chosen for not sorting?

Basically, can you at least share which posts you dislike and why?

Finally someone who realises the current game scope... Keen to see where this goes.

Flea the Magician and Elements using the same line of argument against Killing Joke does concern me for the nonce.

Ugh.

Killing Joke calls Dragons/Flea/Elements, Flea and Elements say: Why are you scumreading so many people, wayward and all the others?

So much for ignoring this stuff... *sigh*

My approach was different to Elements I feel, Where Elements was looking back and giving evidence that Joker was being drastically inconsistent, Joker absolutely and imo deliberately misconstrued what Elements intention was and to me looked to be attempting to deny that then deliberately misinterpreted comment which was then the basis of my issue with Joker. Given the various comments on me as well when I was trying to be good natured about a potential off handed comment that led to sorting potential I started getting suspicious and decided to go for it, its a slot I wanted sorted.

I aleays say, if you can say how different you are as mafia and town, then you can manipulate it.

ohai Enchant, you still lurk meta then and yeah absolutely this. Meta is generally bad anyway, self-meta imo is even worse.

Mostly I want to know why, it seems to me, fae don't think Elements and Save the Dragons are mutineers? Because Killing Joke is pushing them? That's the impression I get. I'm not sure what makes Killing Joke more scum than Elements or Save the Dragons, I'm not sure what they are, but fae not considering that Killing Joke can be two thirds right, just because killing joke has included fae as a potential, I'm trying to understand.

I currently have little impression on either. Elements a little more than StD because I know StD can be a hard read, I dont know Elements but their points were valid so far as I'm bothered. Again, I hate D1, there's too much and too many to track with nothing absolute to work with.

[/spoiier]

I think Joker’s maybe wrong on Flea who’s extremely obviously very wrong on us. I’m not sure I necessarily agree with any of it but I could see this as a possible townie thought process. I do expect Flea to be a lot better at reading me but I can possibly see it that if Flea was reading Frogs’ wrong, fae may wrongly read my play here as nia instead of obtown, which is clearly is.

It’s extremely disappointing and frustrating that fae’s doing this but I’m starting to think that could be possible. Also last time fae was scum, fae hardpocketed me. I just don’t think Flea would initiate an almost war against me as scum here. Scum!Flea would I think be far more likely to either pocket me here or say my posting’s nia and hit Frogs’ hard but not me. I actually believe faer wouldn’t do to me what fae did to Pooky now but I was so extremely upset at fae for fae’s comments wrt my emotions in that game - a topic pretty much guaranteed to maje me want to lose it on people in general - I think it adversely impacted my thinking and I just became completely paranoid on Flea and I way over reacted to it.

Anyway, I just don’t see why scum!Flea risks egregiously hurting me that much just to make a terrible push on me specifically.

@RR, why are you trying to shut down people? We ought to be looking at every slot, so I don’t see your issue with what Mala did?

~Harley

[Wayward Son]

@ Flea @ JK I think you're both loyal Crew. @ Both Do you think I'm headed in the right direction with my Crew posting?

Night shift. I'll be walking the deck.

[HighPrincessErinys]

Happy scumday to Harley.

[Killing Joke]

Happy scumday to Harley.

<3

Thanks for noticing, I usually forget.

So far liking Mala, Eira, HPE, WS, Flea?

I just think faer’s reaction to my posting that link was very believable to me.

I still find STD kind of sketchy. I almost feel like he’s trying way too hard here to look town? Idk could of course be entirely wrong on that though. \_0_/

VOTE: Bella

I’m ok with this vote for now.
I don’t really feel like Bella is sorting. I also don’t really find a lot of her posts memorable. I also dislike some of the posts she made. I agree with STD that the post regarding how scared this lim will go through, just felt awk imo.

I also have a soft-scum read on deck, but that one I’m keeping closer to my chest until I can actually push that case.

I also agree with Mala that Bella needs more sorting, so Bella’s on my radar and there’s also a bunch of slots who have yet to do anything at all.

I’m also a bit suss on RR, not a popular opinion but they keep trying to shut down any discussion about anything other than their bad read on us.

RR doesn’t want to look at Frogs’ reads then they shut down Mala’s and I think it makes sense to be wondering about Bella. Also I actually believe Flea’s sr on us is more believable to me than RR’s. I’m not really saying too much about RR because Joker keeps insisting to me they’re town despite them voting obvtown and I think they should know more than anyone else here that this is Frogs’ town meta, so I find their suspicions on me specifically insincere.

I think Joker might also be wrong on Elements because she didn’t just autojump on HPE after STD voted HPE like I thought she would. That however is a very weak read. I don’t think like Frogs they make sense as svs though, more likely they’re unaligned I think?

Gth: STD/RR/Bella?

~Harley

[Killing Joke]

If I'm missing anyone still, please @ me again.

@Joker,

Gotcha. I just finished typing all this on mobile and am crashing like right now. I'll follow up with you when I wake up and won't reference that again until we've talked in the Clown's Cabin.

@Killing Joke: Your use of #133 has been prominent in the onset of Fenrir-questioning. Why such certainty? Why can't I be a mutineer, having set up Fenrir in that scenario? I'm getting trust, or the verbal facsimile at least, from two sources. Yours is the third most I'd say, not really having questioned my slot and taking the exchange of and prior to #133 at face value. Therefore I get the feeling, as I have to a lesser extent with Titus, that you believe me crew. I might be working under a misapprehension, but generally anyone feeling certain on me early needs to be examined. This is one of the reasons I won't fully trust you, for the nonce.

Hmm. I guess I see two questions in here, one about my read on you and one about why I used #133 so much.

IIRC the number one factor that caused me to townread you early was your interaction with Rats. I thought it looked TvT in general ways I've seen before like: the 1v1 starts pretty much right after the game opens, both sides show zeal combined with lack of fear posting in the thread and the 1v1 seems motivated by paranoia and desire to get reads.

In a more specific way, due to the mutual roleplaying the 1v1 reminded me of TvT right away because of this trope: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/ ... ateDestiny

A secondary factor of why I TR you early on was because I've had lightness and playfulness on my mind as being AI factors. That made me biased to view a few slots early on as Town, including Dragons.

My certainty isn't absolute: the main thing which causes me to think you could be scum is that your level of aggression, demeanor and words-to-posts ratio are eerily similar to the scum game we played together rather than the Town games. What I've been thinking is that those changes are due more to the role playing and number of players rather than alignment. My level of concern is enough that I asked Bellaphant in 367 for an opinion on your recent posts, and not enough that I ever seriously considered flipping my read on you.

As for why I used #133 so much in my posts against Dragons: I don't think it had anything to do with a sense of trust towards you, I think I just preferred the words you used there overall and I liked referencing #133 because it was easy to do. The only thing I can remember calculating is that #133 might be a better hook point for a link if someone clicked on it out-of-context.

One thing I did consider briefly was that maybe #133 was written better because of TMI and you were the buddy Dragons wanted to push him. The main thing which made me believe that wasn't the case was that I observed Dragons was very focused on replying to Elements which is how I saw Dragons interact with his buddy in Masque.

I didn't consider at all that it was SvT with you framing Dragons and probably never will. I just don't feel any intuition to interpret it that way.

@ Flea @ JK I think you're both loyal Crew. @ Both Do you think I'm headed in the right direction with my Crew posting?

Night shift. I'll be walking the deck.

I agree with every single one of your reads I think.

Because you mentioned sorting Passenger earlier, I thought my interaction with Passenger was very, very slightly +Town. I think 195 is lacking condescension and is a little bit more likely to come from Town. I think scum usually push forward in 329 and are more interested in winning the argument.

The overall interaction reminds of one I've had with low-posting Town in large games before. I think Town slots who fall behind in Larges will sometimes push me as a way to get bearing on the game and that's the feeling I was getting from Passenger AFTER--not before--195.

I think overall the significance of it is very weak because it's easy to fake and Passenger had plenty of time to consider what to say. That's just where I'm at right now.

Do you have any new opinions on Passenger?

By the way, @Passenger, once you get the opportunity to post more I think you should push other players.