Open 870 | White Flag Mountainous | Postgame

[Lucian]

VOTE: aubrey

Do you mind talking more about this vote?

[Lucian]

lucian has three completed town games and they're all significantly townier than his play in this game.

he doesnt feel like hes particularly eager to share takes or engage in solving, i didnt like some of the takes he's had this game because they don't feel organic and it feels like he's more invested in self meta/defense than actually pushing foward to find mafia.

This part annoys me. This is the exact argument I had towards me last game, "the other two games he's played were so townie and he's struggling here, must be scum". Spoiler alert. Was not scum. And I'm not sure why you'd expect me to be eager in sharing takes or engaging in solving, when I'm consistently being shot down and called scum for ??? reasons, and I don't feel like people actually want to interact with me properly.

I am getting doubts on Ari, though... Like, the most recent flurry of solving feels like the most townie thing she's done this game. And the way she's talking about me/Una (more applicable to Una since she's a wagon currently) doesn't feel like she is trying very hard to convince people to vote there, which I feel like scum-her would be more likely to do here.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I say we kill struggling scum Una. It’s like they completely stopped trying since Shirou’s shenanigans.

[Lucian]

VOTE: Una

I'm not sure if my current Klick vote is actually doing anything. And I know "giving Ari space" is a dangerous game if she's scum, but I dunno. I'm having doubts. I'd like other people's thoughts on her recent posting as well.

@Klick, mind giving an answer to the above? Who do you want to vote currently?

Pedit: lol

[Shirou]

ok you know what that's such obvious dumb bullshit. if someone is so powerful that they would make us lose as mafia and is not an insane asset to town then they should not continue to be in the game, and either we should try to reduce their power as much as possible or just elim them.

[Klick]

Klick, have you already talked about why you're scumreading Lucian?

I talked about Lucian in 380

I'm not sure at the moment with Lucian. I'm historically bad at reading Datisi. Aristeia puts into words fairly well what currently bothers me about him - it doesn't feel like he has much of a drive to solve. But there are multiple things circumstantially that explain that; he said at the start that he was going to be busy and not tryharding, and I relate with what he's saying about the game being really hard to parse.

I think I'm going to give him room to breathe and see where I'm at with him later

[Toto]

Yeah I want to murder tgp or shurro but can’t decide who yet.

I was scum reading una for the early town read on shurro. Specifically the comment about shurro being relaxed early on striked me as tmi’ed. Later posting from una has been ok and I wanted to give the slot a breather. If una scum maybe shurro town. Could also be scum theatre.

Norwegian I had an early town read on for pushing some of the things I was noticing, I’m not sure how I feel about them post shurro stunt.

Tgp push on shurro feels a bit forced and tunneled. Tgp would appreciate if you can share reads on other players.

CSF feels better than cakes so far.

I like ari more lately. Thanks for reads ari. Still a bit wary. I have issues trusting anime girls.

Lucian I have as null. I was nodding when he was complaining about thread noise but haven’t seen anything super townie either. Pedit oh some posts not caught up.

I guess I’m townleaning Aubrey now. Early posting looked like trying to blend in but I like they are pushing the thread in the right direction. I liked some of his reads. And been nodding to some of his posts.

Pina has contributed a lot but I don’t feel, I don’t really know how to put it, concise solviness. I see some of the thoughts laid bare which good but they lack skin in the game.

Klick putting shurro and pina in the same bucket in terms of play style is odd but I liked some earlier posting. Nulltown

Gamma idk to be honest. I have been pinged both ways. Nulltown.

Std not bad so far. Nulltown

So tldr I have to many reads close to null. This game is weird.

[Shirou]

Yeah I want to murder tgp or shurro but can’t decide who yet.

I may be biased but I drop the positive feelings in this slot for now. Sure you can argue "TGP/Shirou" bus but it doesn't quite make a lot of sense to start by assuming that and scum reading us both together. There's a limit to how much bussing a partner that

wasn't

suspected is rewarding, even if I was scum planning to deepwolf by killing my partner, the fact of the matter is that I cannot win alone in this game if I'm scum.

The problem isn't suspecting me it's suspecting me together with TGP which should be mutually exclusive

at least for this dayphase

. Sure, maybe later in the game if I'm alive it's a more valid suspicion.

[Toto]

Yeah I did said I don’t know which of you I want to murder first.

Also to be transparent I don’t think tgp busing you is an impossibility

[NorwegianboyEE]

Shirou is there any reason why you prefer TGP over Una?

[Shirou]

Shirou is there any reason why you prefer TGP over Una?

I feel TGP has done

actively scummy

things and my scum read on Una is due to a

lack of towny

things, but that's a minor point, the real big reason is that I simply want to play more with Una if she's town here.

If we end up eliminating her and she flips town, I would feel like it's a waste. Given she's already scum read by most people opposed to TGP's situation, I also think pushing TGP and making people notice his scumminess is beneficial to town in the long-term if I'm right on him. TGP has more chances of reaching endgame here than Una does.

Not to mention, if everyone simply pushed Una for the entire dayphase, even if she flipped scum we wouldn't get that much info out of it. You want to give people choices and opportunities, and read them based on the choices they take. A game where there's always only one or two options is rather unreadable, and this is in fact is one of the reasons that people say to be difficult to read the gamestate when it's too controlled or warped by a slot(s).

When they force everyone or almost everyone to

consider

only one or a few options (not even vote, all you need to truly do is to make everyone keep talking/wondering about it), it gets significantly harder to read people simply because they are being consciously or unconsciously deprived of other choices by being forced to hyperfocus on one/a few.

[Shirou]

To be fair by this point I'm quite...bored of

solving

in this game. I'm having more

"fun"

spamposting nonsense in my personal PT than here right now. When I get bored I've weird ideas to entertain myself, so from now on, I'm officially turning the game into a

manga

. I work in bursts of energy and mine for "

serious posting/solving

" has ran out.

[giuseppina]

[giuseppina]

okayokayokay let's see

[Aubrey]

TBG’s push is odd, but seems to stem more from a frustrated player who hates a play style rather than looking at mafia intent behind the post and offing a difficult to read slot for end game solving. I had similar feelings early in the game. Hell I’d be pressed to say I don’t have those feelings still slightly. I’m fine with leaving him still for now. Null though. I look forward to future content. I just feel as scum there are easier places to vote, and he’s choosing the harder path.


—

I generally like the replacements so far. I need to take time to reread them, but I’m likening what I’ve read on a skim.


—

I need to chew on Ari a bit. Everything has just been meta talk and emotional frustration. Need to at some point reread and consider intention on stuff I guess. On a skim I’m not having major changes right now.

—

I’m low key not even looking at partner pairings much atm. I’ll be far more interested in that line of thinking after a red flip.

[giuseppina]

Pina is largely active and kinda towny by seeming anxious. However she just seems to be asking opinions of play vs casting their own opinions. Something worth revisiting, but I don’t think it’s a worthy consideration right now.

i,

don't think 'seeming anxious' is how i've displayed my towniness here

i am ~always anxious

like maybe that presents itself in different ways in different situations? but uh, yeah

anyway if there's an opinion that i haven't given on something you think i should have an opinion on, you could, idk, ask? like do you think i would be unlikely to answer? i don't really understand

also don't really understand why it would be something you would revisit rather than try to get to the bottom of right now

my role is static and i do not really think i am unsortable or anything and saying 'maybe i'll get to that later' or whatever seems kinda ???

unless your assumption is that if town i would be nightkilled and you might not have to ever sort me? which is kinda ... but possible i guess

[Aubrey]

Also I read you’re response to me klick. I’ll chew on it some when the time comes for me to relook at Pina.

[Shirou]

Spoiler: Chapter 1 - TGP wagon and broken dreams

[giuseppina]

Klick sell me on Shurro town. Also Pina.

hm, are you worried i am pocketing you, or?

like if i am going to put in effort to read between lines here or whatever you could do the same

feel like maybe i am getting distracted by things but it's like,

unless you're just trying to sort klick i would rather you just filled in the blanks mostly the point of the exercise for me was to see if you would say,

yes that is part of what i was saying and...

or no, that's not what i meant by that,

and so forth

[NorwegianboyEE]

No hard feeling Shirou but i just want to trust my own instincts a teensy tiny bit. Even if i don't really doubt your alignment.

[giuseppina]

mmm i think in that scenario it would be like a shirou-una-nor team and he would have to hope it wins but i dont think people let him live at elo so it feels suboptimal to do it

This post sells me on serious possibility of Ari!scum. The reasons why are hard to describe but it feels like attacking a strawman. It's like someone else is like "x seems potentially true" and then Aristeia is like "in x scenario a, b, c, and d all have to be true and e would also have to be true and e seems impossible". Nothing Ari has said gives me reason to townread them, and so
VOTE: Aristeia—I think I buy this at least for now.

eh

i don't really agree with aristeia's first conclusion but it does seem rather suboptimal to me as well

and like, i do not think aristeia was in anyway trying to 'win' the discussion or anything by 'attacking a strawman' or whatever,

like the only scum angle i can really see to it is like,

scum!aristeia knows town!aristeia would be likely to respond to that as aristeia generally entertains my thoughts and she understands my process to some extent and that 'no that doesn't really make sense' is just as helpful as 'yes this possibly makes sense continue pursuing that' and so she could have been trying to say 'only in this world would it make sense to me and even then it seems ???' simply because she thinks town!her would, but like, i also think town!her would be pretty likely to so i don't really see how that makes it scum indicative

it's possible aristeia trying to appear town to me because she believes if able to do so effectively i might just steer the wagon onto someone else, yes, maybe had an inkling of that feeling with regards to the 'pina the best scumhunter' thing but that's kinda unfair of me because she has voiced similar thoughts previously even though i disagree so to read it as agenda here seems unfair of me yeah, but do i think aristeia might think, i should be towny to giuseppina because she might just steer the wagon off of scum!me onto whoever, sure

[Shirou]

Spoiler: Chapter 2 - The ULTIMATE THREAT: Of Bad Reads and Wrong Deathtunnels

[Shirou]

No hard feeling Shirou but i just want to trust my own instincts a teensy tiny bit. Even if i don't really doubt your alignment.

Eh it's okay I'm just having fun I don't care much if we don't get TGP today. I feel I can end up being wrong on him as well.

[giuseppina]

@aristeia now is this more likely to come from partners tho

i can see it coming from partners but im not sure i want to give shirou that many creativity points as scum

yeah, i'm not sure i see this coming from town

the interesting part about this aristeia post, to me at least,

is that it is the sort of read/phrasing i would more expect to come from una (though una would be more likely to state it as a comparison of expected creativity points vs displayed creativity points and then if unsure i think she would be likely to express that as well, in some form, instead of it expressing it as a 'want' thing', and maybe it would include a metaphor as well)

but i dunno if that means anything

don't really think i should start playing around with language theories here even if they are more interesting to me

just thought this phrasing was potentially noteworthy from aristeia as it is something i have seen from others outside of this game as well, but i guess i haven't often felt like aristeia viewed the game as if we were each characters in a video game or rpg and such with associated stats, or maybe not viewed as much as compared the game to that situation mentally, in the way that those others do sometimes

but also could be something that has worn off on aristeia instead of situationally borrowed, so

and again, otherwise, as above, just feels like aristeia replying to me just the phrasing maybe noteworthy

[giuseppina]

is that it is the sort of read/phrasing i would more expect to come from una (though una would be more likely to state it as a comparison of expected creativity points vs displayed creativity points and then if unsure i think she would be likely to express that as well, in some form, instead of it expressing it as a 'want' thing', and maybe it would include a metaphor as well)

yeah i guess it would be an altogether different post if a hypothetical una wrote it, just similar in terms of how she sometimes expresses views of other players that i do not generally associate with aristeia