HMS Mutiny [Game Over]

[Elements]

Enchant i've decided to read later in the game

[Elements]

ooo pagetop

[Elements]

RR I haven't read any of

[Elements]

Same with Eira

[Radical Rat]

I don't wanna defend myself too much cause I think this wagon can be important later but

what's more important, RR, that I called for votes on STD to flip him and end the gameday, or that I actively helped changing the tide of the gamethread to one where we're flipping elsewhere? there's no point to your scumread, IDK why you're thinking that.

Again with such strong presumptions... I think ye vastly overestimate your influence lad. It's as though ye think ye've got the backin' o'... Maybe three to four others behind ye.

[Flea The Magician]

@flea, I said 'i scum read X and y for tone but for very different eeasons' and then like three posts later passenger almost literally uses the same language. It's weird, right?

Spoiler: Referencing...

I'm scum reading std (and frog a little bit) for tone but for very different reasons.

I also scumread Flea for those posts but for likely different and weaker reasons.

I mean honestly its a common thing to say - self, action/read , target, reasons.
If you search in Passengers ISO it's standard for them to use the basic structure similar to you, so I wouldn't actually consider it weird. I can see why you'd think that though.
anything else standing out?

[Flea The Magician]

Trying to look back and work out what I was thinking, what wires potentially crossed on what I was going to poke StD on and just noticing there's a lot of unanswered questions from me at passenger and I'm considering if this is evasion or laziness...

[Flea The Magician]

(this is why I hate larges, I literally cannot keep track)

[Killing Joke]

@joker, of course. The other issue was that I don't have the confidence in myself: I scum read you very heavily in the last game but I'm not often confident to be a voice in the wilderness: Nancy will know in cosmos that I scum read her slot since day one, there was a probable guilty on her but she was consensus town read and ended til 6p!
Why did you ask about my scum meta?!

I understand that but I also play scum differently because it was multiball. I hate fake solving more than anything but since I could actually real solve in that game is probably why that was the case. Like Mastina locktowned me for playing similar to my usual towngames but you would br extremely unlikely to find that in any of my singleball scumgames. I’m also in a hydra where I don’t have to be the active head any finally, unless a literal framer role exists in this setup and I have yet to even see a game with that role in it, no guilty is possible for us as we are 100% solid town here.

I think you can tell by our play and Read both me and Frogs in both Community versions: og and the redux to see how both our posting compares with this game.

Spoiler:

Your Eria comments amuse me, you say when is an opening post scummy but I offer when is an opening post worthy of a conftown read as a rebuttal. You can absolutely have alignment indicative openers and several people have been caught on them before. The no-elim is post 27ish, page two and still in RVS so if you're reading something into that other than RVS I'd love to know what you're seeing there.

What amuses me is that Elements locktowned me on my second post and here fae are talking to Erynis, who did no such thing.
I asked Elements why later, no response.

Genuinely I think people have forgotten how to read or at least see context.
That or the whole dang crew is mutinous.

This one already put Mala into conftown for the time being for the Miller claim, but it also doesn't super like their ISO or votes starting with 361.
[snip]
Eira seems fine and this one disagrees with StD's earlier assessment that his opening post is scummy (when IS an opening post actually scummy?), think maybe they could be posting more content? No-elim vote feels kinda NAI also based on the RP.
[snip]

I don't understand your response here, who its aimed at or what you're aiming for here.

[snip]
Erynis is noting something very simple here, and my first post was so basic that Erynis is right. It's interesting, what faer saying here and that fae feels the need to respond to so minor a point at all.

Erynis: How can you form an early scumread like that?

Flea: Uh early tells totally exist(Ignoring nature of my statement and utter brute simplicity of three words), and why is Eira's No Elim indicative of something? (Erynis said it's NAI! Why are fae twisting what Erynis said? NAI means 'not reading into it', yes?)

Yeah my bad on that one, I misread that bit and NAI means read into it but found it Non-Alignment Indicative. Honestly doesn't change my position as it stands on HPE.

I've felt Titus, Flea, Toffee, and Gimli and KJ to an extent, try to save Fenrir. Not saying those folk are scum but saying at this point I don't think I can change my vote anymore. If I'm wrong and misread you Fenrir, so be it.

But there's way too many indications that we struck gold.

Struck gold in that StD is mutinous?
Intriguing. This would infer a potential solve from you of being within Titus, Toffee, Gimli, KJ and myself.
Given interactions between KJ and StD, are you actually sure on that?

Personally at the moment I'm tempted to look at the people who are misinterpreting StD wilfully as I think our odds are better there.

And what if those people are ACURATELY reading STD, what then? I don’t understand why you’re so convinced he’s town here? He was extremely obvtown in Temple but I feel he’s being different here.

RR I haven't read any of

Same with Eira

So why not and shouldn’t you be doing that before you vote?

I think the reason you gave about Gimli wanting to rush the day sounds like scum reasoning: I don't see why Gimli's impatience is AI for scum as opposed to AI for...Town being impatient.

It be the way he speaks of it as a foregone conclusion. There be many loose threads left to pull at, an' he tries to paint the deal as sealed to secure 'is last few votes.

Ye can be impatient 'n' still be loyal, but the message here wasn' that he'd rather things be faster... It's that fate's already been writ, with the goal of dissuadin' lookin' elsewhere

@RR, why am I getting the sense that you might possibly be hiding under this sailor speak, so your bad takes don’t look so bad because it’s very difficult - unlike for example with Eira - to even understand what you’re actually saying half the time.

My reads: Mala, Eira, WS, Gimli, BBT, Bella, HPE, maybe AD? for town

Currently the most suss on STD/RR/. Less on Passenger/Elements

Everyone else: null

[Flea The Magician]

*snap*

Got it!

Gimli

i'm still trying to figure out how to read gimli, but considering we just played dance game where i wasn't scum, and we just played doctor game where i wasn't scum, why doesn't he have pause when thinking i'm scum or not in this game? he feels like he did in temple game, where he was scum.

Gimli has a VERY different feel to temple game here to me.
In Temple he was defeatist, but had fun with it. Here he's very much more active if just as lazy in places (increasingly less so) and there's no defeatism here that I can pick up on.
Whats the similarity for you here?

[Elements]

RR I haven't read any of

Same with Eira

So why not and shouldn’t you be doing that before you vote?

Yea probably but I'm lazy

[ActionDan]

As far as RR is concerned I didn't like 156 but thought the rest was OK. Rereading him is annoying

[Killing Joke]

Thank you for your responses, Rat. I have another issue with your ISO:

216 and 270

Do you remember what caused you to change your position towards Harley between these two posts? I didn't see it although granted I'm a bit biased.
__

@all (Elements "show, don't tell" scum tell)

RR I haven't read any of

Same with Eira

So why not and shouldn’t you be doing that before you vote?

Yea probably but I'm lazy

@Elements

Why the chess in 55? Is playing chess within a mafia game normal behavior from you?

Haven't done it before, but I'd say it's in character

"'Show, don't tell' is a technique authors use to add drama to a novel. Rather than telling readers what's happening, authors use this technique to show drama unfold on the page. 'Telling' is factual and avoids detail; while 'showing,' is detailed and places the human subject at the centre of the drama."

https://jerichowriters.com/show-dont-tell/
__

@Elements

Reads on Titus, Enchant, Radical Rats and ActionDan?

I'm not going to look at StD because anything I say KJ will jump on and say "oo look this is two scum"

I'm going to make sure and repost this several times this game. And yes I intend on calling out any SvS tells you make and connecting you to your scum buddies. I agree it's best you and Dragons and Passenger all be cautious. It's probably best to avoid any scum theater at all with your 4th buddy until we're dead, just to be safe.

Second question: considering you just completed a game against scum!Joker, which I quoted your reaction to in 102, why don't you explain all the similarities you're seeing in my play between that previous game and this one?

__

@Flea

Trying to look back and work out what I was thinking, what wires potentially crossed on what I was going to poke StD on and just noticing there's a lot of unanswered questions from me at passenger and I'm considering if this is evasion or laziness...

I'm glad you said this because I didn't pick up on Passenger doing this. If you take a quick look at the context and timestamp of Passenger's 548 you can see that Passenger was deliberately evading me in 547. As for whether or not Passenger is being lazy or evasive, I think Passenger is being lazy

and

evasive.

__


__

@ActionDan

Titus' votes and iso leave much to be desired

Yeah I think you may be onto something (again) wrt Titus. She's not this ornery and disengaged as Town IME. I don't agree with what she said about the rule of 3 either. I think she just said that as an excuse to avoid voting Passenger. I'm guessing her vote is on Gimli right now, the counterwagon to Dragons and Passenger?

__

@Titus

Save The Dragons (6): Killing Joke, Wayward Son, ActionDan, HighPrincessErinys, Eiralox, Gimli.
HighPrincessErinys (4): Passenger, Save The Dragons, Enchant, Titus.

look at this ugly counterwagon

Nice, Titus caught on HPE and Gimli counter wagons. How do you feel D1 is working out for you, Titus? Still "mad" about all the "readwalls" ???

__

@Gimli

Here's (a version of) why I don't believe what we both observed about Flea is AI:

tmw your tile refreshes the wrong freaking page. Eugh.

Nancy you know my play better than anyone.
You know I can read you.
I know I can't read frog.
You know I do not meta dive.
You know I will latch on to a single head and take my read from there.
You know I'm a reactive player, worse than you can be some days.
When only Joker is posting, I can't exactly focus on both. I've looked at yours, I gave explanation why I have a little pause over your alignment. I've even said i'm going to try and focus on you because I can read you and not frog, who I think I've had 1 game with.

There's silly pushes, there's shit pushes, then theres manual extraction and yeeting it at the turbo propeller.

You are asking me to do things you know I

do not do

and using that I do not do them as a defence.

Your townmeta to me is you have fun, even when someone throws a bit of sus you have fun. Here you're throwing meta at me, hyperfixed on how I'm reading you and being crushed already with almost no pressure.

Most importantly you know I've caught you like this before, and you've seen me catch hydras like this before. I've always done it like this, trying to paint me red for it isn't a good look for you.

Flea is a reactive player I believe this part is sincere and that can explain faer push against our slot as fae was reacting to my early aggression against faer slot. I think while people are being reactive they can do things which look like scum tells.

(I'll go out of character a bit here because trying to wrap it in pirate speak isn't working I think.

But what I'm asking is what about Nancy's play here makes you think she's RPing? I'll acknowledge you know her better than I do, but to me this looks like pretty normal Nancy play.)

There's a few Harleyisms interspersed in her posts (Since when does she call anyone Bucko?) and word choice is different to usual around them. It's throwing me off how I usually read her. The aggression is different because of it and ngl she's getting Harley's mania about right when she does it

I have figured out the answer to this question when you're ready to hear it from me.

Also, your pirate speak is easy to understand all things considered, miscommunication isn't the problem

[Joker]

Is it because you think I'm scum? Still waiting on your answers btw.

It is possible that Flea noticed differences in Harley's behavior and word choice which were subtle. I draw another connection to this a couple quotes down

@flea, I don't think we've played together, although I've read a bit about you and larping elsewhere! I tend to do well one on one so have a drink and chuck question or two at me?

yeah I'm a keen LARPer ^_^
Turns out its not a dehydration headache which means it's probably an OSDD headache so this is going to be foggy af for a day or two.

Has anyone in particular underperformed who you were expecting more from today?

Flea likes to act and may be playing a character here for scum hunting and/or entertainment and that can look like scum behavior sometimes.

Hm.
Need to check VC, will do that on my computer when im home.
For now my vote is spiritually on Passenger while I read back whats happened tonight properly and check my wires are not once again crossed.

HPE goes on the watch list - another wilful misconstructor.

Everyone is assuming malicious intent......

As far as assumptions go, malicious intent isn't always the driver behind wilful misinterpretation of something. I can think of many reasons for both alignments to do it, the thing that tells for me is

how

its construed, how much it happens and responses to it.

At the moment I'll be entirely honest you're fulfilling "assume" quite well at the moment.

Flea may not have been upfront about some things, for example it's possible fae noticed differenced in Harley's behavior and fae exaggerated them to see how Harley would react for scum hunting purposes. This would be congruent with the mindset Flea is describing in the post above.

All this being said, I still believe that Elements and Dragons 100% worked together like an actual pack of wolves and those slots can not be allowed to reach endgame. I just think it's more likely wrt Flea that fae were a Town who got caught in the cross fires.

[Elements]

@all (Elements "show, don't tell" scum tell)

RR I haven't read any of

Same with Eira

So why not and shouldn’t you be doing that before you vote?

Yea probably but I'm lazy

@Elements

Why the chess in 55? Is playing chess within a mafia game normal behavior from you?

Haven't done it before, but I'd say it's in character

"'Show, don't tell' is a technique authors use to add drama to a novel. Rather than telling readers what's happening, authors use this technique to show drama unfold on the page. 'Telling' is factual and avoids detail; while 'showing,' is detailed and places the human subject at the centre of the drama."

What is your point here and why is this a scum tell?

[Save The Dragons]

More words I'm not responding too. Your temporal grip seems to be loosely defined, it's very clear we're talking about early you and not new, shiny you. Trying to frame it as if what I'm saying has anything at all to do with what you've recently been saying about me is classic deflection.

then clearly i'm confused by your post. maybe it's on me, i dunno. help a wolfy out next time

@ STD Can you put in one post who you are most suspicious of right now?

I'm most suspicious of you, Elements and Passenger right now.

i am most suspicious of HPE right now. I do not think they are solving, i think they've been rather single minded in their assault on me. I think some of their case doesn't make a lot of sense, and i think regardless of what other people think there wasn't analysis and there was hesitation to jump on a wagon with scum potentially already on it.

There is talk in the Clown Cabin that your morale is decreasing over time because your team is losing

you guys spin more narrative than george r. r. martin

No one's vote on hpe seems well explained tbf.

ouch

*snap*

Got it!

Gimli

i'm still trying to figure out how to read gimli, but considering we just played dance game where i wasn't scum, and we just played doctor game where i wasn't scum, why doesn't he have pause when thinking i'm scum or not in this game? he feels like he did in temple game, where he was scum.

Gimli has a VERY different feel to temple game here to me.
In Temple he was defeatist, but had fun with it. Here he's very much more active if just as lazy in places (increasingly less so) and there's no defeatism here that I can pick up on.
Whats the similarity for you here?

im starting to doubt my statement here but when i made it gimli was hyper focused on me and it seemed like he was in anti-spew mode in temple. to focus on one player keeps your reads close to the chest and prevents you from spewing information. that's the comparison i was making, not necessarily that he was quote unquote lolcatting here.

[Save The Dragons]

as an addendum:

the HPE wagon comp is pretty disgusting but so is my wagon so i'm really confused by this game.

i think gimli is probably town at this point and i probably should have seen it earlier.

[Enchant]

as an addendum:

the HPE wagon comp is pretty disgusting but so is my wagon so i'm really confused by this game.

yea i am not unvoting

[Gimli]

Enchant i've decided to read later in the game

it takes a literal minute to ISO enchant. is the game so disheartening for you, elements? why is that? you were so towny in doctors game, such eagerness to solve.

[Gimli]

I can see the Gimli scum reads. A lot of his points are parroting others.

too uncharitable

[Enchant]

haha i checked and i am actually not last player by post count

i am proud

[Killing Joke]

haha i checked and i am actually not last player by post count

i am proud

Yes, the Clown Eye of Sauron has averted it's gaze from you.

What is your point here and why is this a scum tell?

Your posts are superficial and attempting to play into how you think others view you as Town. Instead of interacting with others and trying to solve the game which would reveal your characteristics over time, you tell others directly what you think the characteristics of town!you are like in an effort to control how you believe you should be perceived.

283 I never told HPE that I'm feeling wacky, how did they pick that up? ... because there is some depth and volume behind what I put out, HPE made that inference on their own. It's easy for me to show rather than tell because I am Town and difficult for you because you are scum. The players who have defended you say things like "I've seen town say that before" and "I like Elements' posts on page 10", not "wow I actually believe Elements cares about what they're saying throughout this game." That's because the focus of your posts has been on emulating town tells and pushing an agenda through.

Now, stop evading the 2 difficult--unless you're Town--questions I asked you in 712.

[Killing Joke]

(Sorry for doublepost @ Harley, I couldn't resist)

How can you possibly think you have 3 scum reads correct

Hey Dragons, why did you ask me this question?

@std, scale of 1-10 how actually worried are you about being the elim here?

Maybe 2

Can we get an update on this by the way?

[Malakittens]

Bit of a dodge myself.

Still want gimli dead, but I will follow KJ.

RadiL feels gown ish

[Save The Dragons]

Game barely started and you wanted to flip 3 people as scum? Not likely but you and Eiralox seem to have no problem with that. Hmm

What do you care about the number

[furtiveglance]

.