Open 870 | White Flag Mountainous | Postgame

[Shirou]

Gamma Emerald

was killed Night 1. She was a

Vanilla townie

.

I'm surprised.

Historically commenting about the nightkill this way is kinda scum indicative and I avoid doing it because of that regardless of alignment, but this NK is so weird to me that I'm kinda "flabbergasted".

Even if scum didn't want to kill me, it really surprises me that they didn't kill Norwee. It, in fact, makes almost no sense to me except if I take a few convenient explanations and I don't want directly go into that. I need to reconsider this game.

[Shirou]

it's kinda hard for me to see how shirou's push to end the day there comes from town

like pushing to eliminate una immediately when she wasn't around but was going to return soon while two other slots who have been suspected throughout the day are being replaced and multiple players are asking for time is !?!

I literally threatened the entire thread to vote off Auro in a few IRL hours in Black Flag or else I would stop playing the game. I've literally done "worse" as town before and everyone "suspected me" for it just like here.

I've never done something similar to scum because there's literally no point no matter how much WIFOM you try to add it. The elimination was definitely gonna be one of Una/Ari there and me rushing one of them makes me seem needlessly more responsible for it. If anything what I would have done there if we assume that Ari is town for a second, was to complain a lot about they being the most likely elimination but do

near nothing

about it in actual actions, just like what I did to town!Okapoka in Baton Pass while he was being eliminated. I was loud about it but all bark no bite.

[Shirou]

i don't really know how to take into account aristeia selfvote or norwegianboyee saying shirou should never be suspected while shirou was in the midst of ~this

It's because if you consider yourself a meta player and actually scum read me and Norwee here I don't know what to say to you.

There was two players in this list with a good track record of reading me: Una and Norwee. Both town read me rather strongly. What makes you think that two of the best people in historically suspecting me as scum early on (D1) are wrong but you're right?

As scum I know how to seem

superficially

townie and say "all the right things" to avoid suspicion, I don't remember a single scum game where I was heavily suspected for most of the time except maybe a meme 4p micro game which I wasn't interested on.

The fact I've been so

chaotic

that it's making people suspicious of me is a strong town indicator for me I believe. I'm somewhat chaotic as scum at certain points but definitely much less than here, because I know the "WIFOM" isn't worth it.

[Shirou]

Rly I'm slightly hurt by town!shirou gamethrow and heavily hurt by scum!shirou making an optimal play instead of slightly slightly weaker lines that let me hang out day 2 and 3 don't we have so much fun together.

You break my heart

Oh, I just realized that if you're town you should town read me just for the fact I'm trying to kill you here for no good reason!

Like, I didn't nightkill you even when I should in N1 of that game I was scum vs town!you, I probably really would try to save your slot here if we weren't partners in that hypothetical scum!Shirou scenario

I find that at least somewhat compelling

[Shirou]

If you think that as scum I literally kill Una in D1 here for whatever reason it's also straight up

wrong

.

Even in my first scum game ever in this site, I actually keep both NSG and RC alive in N1 (which surprises them greatly) because I simply wanted to play more with them. I've already done something similar to Una before as she admitted in the above.

I've already commented about it in my PT and didn't want to say much here because it'll probably look fake but...I was really sad about this elimination flipping town. If you ask me whether I regret it, I'm not sure. I don't think Una would be able to convince me of not voting her, so I don't think the end result would have mattered unless I either voted Ari instead of trusted more my TGP read, because as it stands they still have a chance of being scum I guess.

Ari is a better scum hunter than me though so having her share almost identical reads boosted my confidence on it being right too much perhaps, because I thought there was a good chance she was town here being the most popular wagon and all (and thus why I tried to change the gamestate).

I'm really sorry Una

. If you're reading this, I'm the most sorry not for the way I pushed you necessarily (think about it, if you efforted here and I ended up miseliminating you anyway wouldn't it be kinda worse? ) but for the fact...I got your alignment wrong. I'll not trust my gut as much on you next time, I thought I would be able to read you correctly but it seems my "vibes sensor" isn't very good...

[Shirou]

i think him saying that toto is ridiculous for suggesting that it's even possible they could be scum together is p silly and not really believable

I literally said a very similar thing about Enchant/Midway in Dance Game (which was correct and everyone disagreed):

If someone is *actually* pushing/voting an unsuspected slot (rather than just saying "oh yeah they could be scum"), there's good reason to not have your first assumption be that it's a bus. It's because most often than not it isn't, most scum busses when their partner are already suspected, or they voice suspicions that they take awhile to follow through if they ever do.

If TGP is ever scum here, I'm sorry but I've 100% of the credits on his flip because it was me pushing him that made him post even more scummy stuff and become a common suspect. I'm not saying for you to town read me but thinking that it's a good idea to eliminate me in the next dayphase if TGP flips scum is...yeah.

It's fun and all to say "Shirou has a masterplan here" but no matter how you slice it, TGP wasn't a suspect until I pushed him and if I was scum with him my wincon would be much much easier if I didn't do whatever I did here towards him.

[Shirou]

Shirou, if you didn’t trust either slot then there was no reason for your antics…this just makes Fire/Ari seem more like a prime suspect. Your friend also seemed disinterested in the game so why go to the trouble of keeping her in longer and offing Una? Who couldn’t even defend their slot?

Because this isn't a "whoever is more disinterested/the easier elimination gets voted"? It's "vote scum" and I believed back then that Una had kinda better odds of flipping scum than Ari.

[Shirou]

ari wasn't disinterested in the game

holy cope.

[Shirou]

Honestly this strongarm'ing playstyle isn't bringing me good results as town and it emotionally really messes with me. Maybe it's cheap to say that but I strongly believe that if I wasn't so obnoxious about the MariaR push and first eliminated, dunno, VPBaltar's pair in the Dance Game, and later we eliminated MariaR/Furtive anyway because of PoE, there's good chances we could have won the Dance Game.

I was correctly suspecting Ydra of TMI on her read on Furtive if MariaR/Furt was t/t, and hadn't completely stopped suspecting Meuh yet. It was after MariaR's t/t flip that I emotionally crumbed and just didn't feel like suspecting Meuh anymore while she was consoling me in the PT. I also felt guilty about Ydra's AtE and even though I even said in the thread I probably shouldn't I ended up giving town points for it to her (because again, guilty).

I'm trying to not show my grief on getting Una wrong here (for game unrelated reasons, I just enjoyed her) partially because it's been 2 days already and I'm a bit better, also because it would probably sound "fake", but I'm really disappointed at myself here for not correctly reading her (no, I don't regret the rushing per se that much)...

[Shirou]

I want to say I'll make scum regret not killing me N2 but I'm not good enough for that. I'll try though.

Thank you CSF I love you even if this is town and you're scum.

I love you too! You may not remember me, but we were in team mafia 2018 together

Did you mean Team Mafia 2020 though? I didn't play TM 2018 so I wonder if you're confusing me for someone else?

[Shirou]

I want to say I'll make scum regret not killing me

N2

but I'm not good enough for that. I'll try though.

N1*

[Shirou]

I'm feeling that I'm almost forced for today to town read some players here that I do have positive feelings but nothing concrete because otherwise we probably straight up lose the game either way and I've not many people I can work with here given Gamma was NK'd.

Cakez slot seemed kinda towny as by my previous readlist, and perhaps it's biased but I like CSF correctly pinpointing that there wasn't that much incentive to go about the elimination this way as scum, so I'm gonna call her town for now.

So in my "town block" I want to work with here there's [CSF, Norwee] hmm, Gamma would be on it as well but she is dead unhappily.

One or two more people need to be towny so I can attempt to solve this game seriously now. No strongarming but real discussion aka mystery box of silver style.

[Shirou]

So many people are voicing suspicious on TGP together with me that I'm beginning to consider he really may be scum and this is an attempt to guilty me...however is that really the case? It's really convenient if I was right about this game on D1 but I've been left alive.

Maybe, scum hasn't been too suspected yet so they want me to continue being loud about my previous day reads. The problem is, two names that come to my mind when I think of that can be the decisive slots on whether I'm eliminated today or not, so it's a tricky position to be in.

[Shirou]

[Norwe] - town read
[---] - town lean
[

Gamma

, Toto, Catscratching, Pina, Aubrey] - nulltown* (maybe some scum here idk)
[StD, Klick] - null
[Aristeia] - nullscum
[

Una

, Lucian, TGP] - scum lean**
[---] - scum read

Hmm, Let's attempt to seriously solve this game I guess...I'm resetting myself a bit. TGP is still my prime suspect but I need to think about this. One of StD/Pina/Toto needs to be correctly town read.

[Norwe]
[CSF]
[---]
[StD, Klick, Aubrey, Pina, Toto]
[Fire, Lucian, TGP]
[---]
[---]

[Shirou]

i don't think that the way he pushed tgp and then backs off actually makes any sense at all as town. it's all positional there's no real read behind it

maybe it's because your slot was fine with self-voting but not voting with me on TGP???

How is this my fault. We clearly would have done TGP there if Ari had voted with us, and I'm not blaming Ari here, what I mean to say is that I clearly tried to make a TGP wagon happen and saying I didn't when other people resisted is straight up bad faith.

[Shirou]

oops apologies csf i will try to linebreak and/or punctuation more

hm

I hadn't noticed this yet

what.

[Shirou]

oops apologies csf i will try to linebreak and/or punctuation more

hm

I hadn't noticed this yet

what.

oh ok uh

the explanation sounds somewhat believable I guess.

Norwe where is your head at here today? Would you vote with me on TGP if it came to that and who do you think is almost always town here other than me?

[Shirou]

I'm hurting so bad for town leans that I'm start to grap at straws. whatever. I don't think I can afford to hedge on scum!Pina this game.

[Norwe]
[CSF, Pina]
[---]
[StD, Klick, Aubrey, Toto]
[Fire, Lucian, TGP]
[---]
[---]

[Shirou]

StD/Klick/Aubrey is the real nightmare

[Shirou]

StD/Klick/Aubrey is the real nightmare

to be clear: I feel they can easily be either scum or town and it's hard to find anything on their ISO that I feel it comes significantly more from one alignment in specific.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Gamma just seems like a zero info kill. So scum must be happy enough with the game state to some degree I guess.

Why is that your conclusion?

[NorwegianboyEE]

i don't think that the way he pushed tgp and then backs off actually makes any sense at all as town. it's all positional there's no real read behind it

maybe it's because your slot was fine with self-voting but not voting with me on TGP???

How is this my fault. We clearly would have done TGP there if Ari had voted with us, and I'm not blaming Ari here, what I mean to say is that I clearly tried to make a TGP wagon happen and saying I didn't when other people resisted is straight up bad faith.

Yeah in hindsight TGP might have been the better choice, but Una felt like such badmuffin this game i couldn’t resist the chance to ride the bandwagon straight to hell.

@Fire Why do you townread me?

[NorwegianboyEE]

oops apologies csf i will try to linebreak and/or punctuation more

hm

I hadn't noticed this yet

what.

oh ok uh

the explanation sounds somewhat believable I guess.

Norwe where is your head at here today? Would you vote with me on TGP if it came to that and who do you think is almost always town here other than me?

I wanna think a bit more about this game and future postings before i come to any conclusions. Don’t wanna be wrong again.

[Gimli]

Hi I'm in this game so just checking in. I'm sure we can turn this ship around and win

I'm v/la and will de phoneposting for the next week or so

[Aubrey]

Gamma just seems like a zero info kill. So scum must be happy enough with the game state to some degree I guess.

Why is that your conclusion?

She was highly townread but not very active and not really solving much I would argue.