Open 870 | White Flag Mountainous | Postgame

[fireisredsir]

VOTE: TGP

[Aubrey]

Flipping fire to me just gives us more information to work with regarding D1. Since we have no PR's we need to start trying to get a hard POE going, and any information we can. Understanding the wagons from D1 could be valuable. Since i'm uncertain with the spot, I'm fine voting and flipping it right now. If Fire is able to cause me to be super conflicted then I'll alter course. I think the same could be said for Shirou as information goes, but...I guess I'm not as hell bent on scum reading them right now?

If fire flips town what info would that give us poe wise?

Makes the ignores and flippant voters on the 2 wagons a lil more suspect to me. The only other argument I can see is Shirou try harding to force two unfortunate votes but...Not fully sure. I'd feel even better about my idea of the mafia taking a very lax approach to this game if both flipped town. Keeping their hands clean or tagging along with which ever vote they think will go through vs. pushing their own thoughts forward.

[Toto]

K, but who would you vote tomorrow?

[giuseppina]

Gamma Emerald

was killed Night 1. She was a

Vanilla townie

.

I'm surprised.

Historically commenting about the nightkill this way is kinda scum indicative and I avoid doing it because of that regardless of alignment, but this NK is so weird to me that I'm kinda "flabbergasted".

Even if scum didn't want to kill me, it really surprises me that they didn't kill Norwee. It, in fact, makes almost no sense to me except if I take a few convenient explanations and I don't want directly go into that. I need to reconsider this game.

kinda think the most apparent reason would be to make the wagon as a whole or at the very least those who followed you look better as gamma emerald's vote was accompanied by 'whatever' and such

[Shirou]

VOTE: TGP

Interesting progression. You focused a lot on me but voted TGP?

I'm happy for that actually, kinda, but it's still a rather curious act.

[giuseppina]

The elimination was definitely gonna be one of Una/Ari there

i strongly disagree with this and do not really understand why you believe it to be true there have been many a game with wagons built in much less time than we had remaining

i don't really know how to take into account aristeia selfvote or norwegianboyee saying shirou should never be suspected while shirou was in the midst of ~this

It's because if you consider yourself a meta player and actually scum read me and Norwee here I don't know what to say to you.

There was two players in this list with a good track record of reading me: Una and Norwee. Both town read me rather strongly. What makes you think that two of the best people in historically suspecting me as scum early on (D1) are wrong but you're right?

As scum I know how to seem

superficially

townie and say "all the right things" to avoid suspicion, I don't remember a single scum game where I was heavily suspected for most of the time except maybe a meme 4p micro game which I wasn't interested on.

The fact I've been so

chaotic

that it's making people suspicious of me is a strong town indicator for me I believe. I'm somewhat chaotic as scum at certain points but definitely much less than here, because I know the "WIFOM" isn't worth it.

i do not consider myself a meta player as i told you earlier - that impression of me is simply a remnant of who i might have been at one point another universe maybe and so forth

una is the only one of those two i can take completely at face value as norwegianboyee's alignment remains unknown to me

i guess i do not really understand why you think only those with a track of reading you correctly should even bother reading you but eh

i certainly do not think i am more competent than una is but that doesn't change the way i feel right now

your 'chaos' felt like openwolfing to me at the end of the day (an end of the day that you did not allow una to witness and comment on and such so i do not know what she would think about that either) and 'i would only openwolf as town!' isn't all that convincing to me

[Shirou]

kinda think the most apparent reason would be to make the wagon as a whole or at the very least those who followed you look better as gamma emerald's vote was accompanied by 'whatever' and such

Uh

No scum team would ever kill someone because of this I believe

There's many explanations for the Gamma kill but I don't think this is one of them honestly...

[giuseppina]

kinda think the most apparent reason would be to make the wagon as a whole or at the very least those who followed you look better as gamma emerald's vote was accompanied by 'whatever' and such

Uh

No scum team would ever kill someone because of this I believe

There's many explanations for the Gamma kill but I don't think this is one of them honestly...

hm, feel like mafias do kill towns to make wagons look better for themselves but i also don't really do much night kill analysis and i can't really put myself in the place of the mafia team doing so here as i would likely just defer to teammates so maybe you are right about that i don't really know just seemed most apparent to me when thinking about it

[fireisredsir]

VOTE: TGP

Interesting progression. You focused a lot on me but voted TGP?

I'm happy for that actually, kinda, but it's still a rather curious act.

i scumread you both you're just more interesting to talk about :>

as far as the associatives between the two of you go i think that tgp's approach to you is a bit harder to buy as genuine town than yours to him

partly bc i don't think you really play town in a way that makes sense so that makes it somewhat difficult to judge what your motivations and thought process would be

and independently of that i have some hesitations on being confident calling you scum. i just think people's reasons for townreading you are not very good and i lean towards thinking your play makes more sense as scum

[Shirou]

Pina you remind me of NSG complaining to me like an older sister "you can't rush wagons! bad!" in Doubles Mafia

As much as I respect her I rushed the wagons anyway.

I'm literally here telling you that I've rushed the day this way in TM 2021 Black Flag, and also in Doubles Mafia (and probably in more games but I don't quite remember right now other than screaming through Norwee in his TM game as well that some eliminations needed to be rushed). In both scenarios I was town (I also believe what I did to MariaR/Furt elimination or even VPBaltar/Owen in Dance Game, was also basically "rushing).

I get scum reading me but I

absolutely don't get

saying

"I can't understand the non-scum motivation for this"

.

Here's your "town" motivation: I'm simply an impatient person but especially impatient as town given I want to know whether my reads are right or not as soon as possible. The curiosity of knowing whether I'm right or not is one of the things that often keeps me playing anyway. That's why for some time I spectated certain games and tried to solve in the dead thread: I could ask for instant spoilers when I was confident on a solve rather than waiting for weeks/a month to get results, not to mention the effort of convincing people.

Look we got Una wrong but if you could stop "tunneling" me for a bit (because you've only been talking about me since the day start and I think it's baffling it took you so long to have a "read" of sorts only to end up being me), I believe it would be better to everyone.

It would be better to me, but also better to you when I likely eventually flip town. Then you'll not need to start from 0 again because I feel you're starting to base too much of your understanding of the game around the possibility of me being scum (like your Gamma NK interpretation, imo).

I'm not saying you shouldn't scum read me if you want to, just like, maybe also consider other stuff/slots other than Una wagon/me?

[giuseppina]

I wanna think a bit more about this game and future postings before i come to any conclusions. Don’t wanna be wrong again.

it is so frustrating to me that there are players saying things like 'giuseppina is a scums if it doesn't vote!!!' and stuff like that

when i just

i just do not understand why this wouldn't have been your approach to day one in the first place

like why is it 'ope want to take my time and think about this game before i come to any conclusions don't wanna be wrong again' instead of not wanting to be wrong in the first place

[Shirou]

VOTE: TGP

Interesting progression. You focused a lot on me but voted TGP?

I'm happy for that actually, kinda, but it's still a rather curious act.

i scumread you both you're just more interesting to talk about :>

as far as the associatives between the two of you go i think that tgp's approach to you is a bit harder to buy as genuine town than yours to him

partly bc i don't think you really play town in a way that makes sense so that makes it somewhat difficult to judge what your motivations and thought process would be

and independently of that i have some hesitations on being confident calling you scum. i just think people's reasons for townreading you are not very good and i lean towards thinking your play makes more sense as scum

You were making a good job of convincing me to go back to wanting Ari slot died (which I talked myself a bit out of during the night), but I think this is your best post so far

I'm probably biased though

[Gimli]

Aubrey, Cat Scratch Fever, fireisredsir, Gimli, giuseppina, Klick, NorwegianboyEE, Save the Dragons, Shirou, TheGoldenParadox, Toto

Copying the playerlist for reference

Aubrey is town, and I think fire is probably town if they maintain this level of solvyness throughout the gameday.

I think shirou is playing one hell of a game if he is scum, and apparently he is good enough to do so, but I trust that the specific towny emotions he showed here mean he is town. But I like fire more and Aubrey more.

TGP is barely posting, I liked his D1 progression on shirou, but there isn't much more than that. I feel it's town too but without much evidence.

Then there's a POE consisting of everyone else. Not much in the way of a solve but it's where I wanna flip people today, meaning I dislike the potential wagons people want.

What do we think of Giuseppina? It writes big posts, but are they towny? I've read a lot of her but I had no reason to townread her yet, which might mean she is scum.

Norwee I'm kinda trusting shirou that Norwee is town, but it's not my read I'm just sheeping

I'm readless on everyone else

So ok that's a bad list isn't it, but it's what I got so far

[fireisredsir]

i think giuseppina is very towny and would strongly oppose pushes in that direction

[Shirou]

I wanna think a bit more about this game and future postings before i come to any conclusions. Don’t wanna be wrong again.

it is so frustrating to me that there are players saying things like 'giuseppina is a scums if it doesn't vote!!!' and stuff like that

when i just

i just do not understand why this wouldn't have been your approach to day one in the first place

like why is it 'ope want to take my time and think about this game before i come to any conclusions don't wanna be wrong again' instead of not wanting to be wrong in the first place

I know you're 100% wrong on me so actually you took all that time but I believe you got it wrong anyway

I get your logic but you can't forever be scared of being wrong because it's basically impossible to never make mistakes. Be it on mafia, real life, your job or whatever we're talking about.

Making mistakes/getting things wrong and then learning from it is the consistent way to improvement I think. I don't want to deny your playstyle or anything though, but I think there's a very valid argument to taking the first steps boldly without overthinking it.

[Shirou]

You were making a good job of convincing me to go back to wanting Ari slot

died

dead*

[giuseppina]

Pina you remind me of NSG complaining to me like an older sister "you can't rush wagons! bad!" in Doubles Mafia

As much as I respect her I rushed the wagons anyway.

I'm literally here telling you that I've rushed the day this way in TM 2021 Black Flag, and also in Doubles Mafia (and probably in more games but I don't quite remember right now other than screaming through Norwee in his TM game as well that some eliminations needed to be rushed). In both scenarios I was town (I also believe what I did to MariaR/Furt elimination or even VPBaltar/Owen in Dance Game, was also basically "rushing).

I get scum reading me but I

absolutely don't get

saying

"I can't understand the non-scum motivation for this"

.

Here's your "town" motivation: I'm simply an impatient person but especially impatient as town given I want to know whether my reads are right or not as soon as possible. The curiosity of knowing whether I'm right or not is one of the things that often keeps me playing anyway. That's why for some time I spectated certain games and tried to solve in the dead thread: I could ask for instant spoilers when I was confident on a solve rather than waiting for weeks/a month to get results, not to mention the effort of convincing people.

Look we got Una wrong but if you could stop "tunneling" me for a bit (because you've only been talking about me since the day start and I think it's baffling it took you so long to have a "read" of sorts only to end up being me), I believe it would be better to everyone.

It would be better to me, but also better to you when I likely eventually flip town. Then you'll not need to start from 0 again because I feel you're starting to base too much of your understanding of the game around the possibility of me being scum (like your Gamma NK interpretation, imo).

I'm not saying you shouldn't scum read me if you want to, just like, maybe also consider other stuff/slots other than Una wagon/me?

sorry i know i am probably mostly whining

and i can keep both in my mind like my view of the game isn't 'shirou is definitely mafia' that's not how i function even if that isn't always apparent from my posts

and if you want to talk to me about other things please feel free to do so - it is kinda ??? to me that you were saying there wasn't anyone to solve the game with earlier when i feel like i have been here and willing but also

but also i guess maybe you just completely discount that as a possibility for whatever reason since you seem to be saying this is the first thought i've given all game which is .................????

but like i said, i wouldn't be starting from zero if you are town here, that's always a possibility, and my thinking about the nightkill stuff more leaned towards others that joined the wagon not you but i was not going to put much weight into anyway

[fireisredsir]

making mistakes do be kinda terrifying tho

[giuseppina]

I wanna think a bit more about this game and future postings before i come to any conclusions. Don’t wanna be wrong again.

it is so frustrating to me that there are players saying things like 'giuseppina is a scums if it doesn't vote!!!' and stuff like that

when i just

i just do not understand why this wouldn't have been your approach to day one in the first place

like why is it 'ope want to take my time and think about this game before i come to any conclusions don't wanna be wrong again' instead of not wanting to be wrong in the first place

I know you're 100% wrong on me so actually you took all that time but I believe you got it wrong anyway

I get your logic but you can't forever be scared of being wrong because it's basically impossible to never make mistakes. Be it on mafia, real life, your job or whatever we're talking about.

Making mistakes/getting things wrong and then learning from it is the consistent way to improvement I think. I don't want to deny your playstyle or anything though, but I think there's a very valid argument to taking the first steps boldly without overthinking it.

do not worry i have a lot of experience with getting things wrong

[Shirou]

I'm waiting for something but it's not here yet so forgive me but I don't want to drop certain thoughts I've yet

I do want to do something in this game though, just don't know very well what since I should wait before doing what I actually want to

[Gimli]

i think giuseppina is very towny and would strongly oppose pushes in that direction

Okay

Other than tgp and shirou, who would you kill?

[Shirou]

making mistakes do be kinda terrifying tho

do not worry i have a lot of experience with getting things wrong

relatable aren't we



(if it's not clear, I'm also including myself on this. I'm making sure to clear that or else it would sound really arrogant)

[Shirou]

but also i guess maybe you just completely discount that as a possibility for whatever reason since you seem to be saying this is the first thought i've given all game which is .................????

I don't think I said it was the first

thought

you gave all game.

It does feel like it's the first stance you took a stand for though.

[fireisredsir]

i think giuseppina is very towny and would strongly oppose pushes in that direction

Okay

Other than tgp and shirou, who would you kill?

would be interested in some focus on klick potentially

std is the other slot who is a maybe scum for me rn but i don't think i would want to lim him today

[Shirou]

spicy