Micro 1068 | Normal Designer Mafia | Postgame

[Aureal]

Hey, I asked both of you a question earlier. You could try answering if you're so keen for something to post about except each other?

[furtiveglance]

When someone other than Drew posts, I'll post

[furtiveglance]

Yes there's a rule saying you have to call someone Mafia before voting them? OK, I await mod intervention on that. Not holding my breath though.

You disagreed with my stance it's fine.

Voting me implues you think i am mafia. But there's nothing you said about this. So you just vote me because you disagree with my stance, without regard if i am mafia or town.

So my question is valid.

This is just a pile of nonsense. And Enchant is often making very strange posts not really within solving effort, but it's more like a mode... and this post is an attempt at serious mode but... it's just an argument for the sake of an argument, instead a town thinking on how this could be town(by simply saying that Enchant's stance is also sus; or simply by falling into the "X says wrong things so X is scum" fallacy). It's extremely early so peoples votes can naturally be very weak, but that's also something Enchant knows... so I think this is even falling the test for weak reads.

VOTE: Enchant

Vote and reasoning on Enchant sucks

NK15

I order you to comment on Drew's progression and vote on me

The arguments I see between you two would make sense as coming either from town or Mafia, but they are actually pretty weak.

Refusal to comment on/'rank' me and Drew sucks more

Overall NK15 is the scummiest player in the game
Second is you
Third is Lycanfire

[Doctor Drew]

Hey, I asked both of you a question earlier. You could try answering if you're so keen for something to post about except each other?

Must have missed it, care to post again?

[Aureal]

But.......Aureal was making a pretty clear jokey post about you, and you shoe horned your wiki in there to get your self meta out in the open. There was no reason for you to do that, and asking the about there experience was completely out of the blue as well. The whole thing seems so soooo contrived. You cannot it good conscience say that it felt like natural response.

Oh, so I can't bring up the thing you brought up, gotcha......that really progresses the game.

Okay, so I gotta ask... Just because something feels like an unnatural response, does that make it suspicious? As the person on the other side of this conversation, I agree, yeah it was unnatural. Self-promotion rarely is natural. Someone who goes to the effort to put together a wiki about themself, however that's done, probably wants people to pay attention to it.

Who here actually went to look at furtive's wiki because it was mentioned? I sure didn't.

And who is starting to feel like they might end up having to look if this continues?

I guess the question got a little buried, but I would like some feedback on it!

[RH]

@Mod, shouldn't Hellhound be due for a prod?

You're right. I forgot about that.

Prodding Hellhound.

[Aureal]

Vote and reasoning on Enchant sucks

Howso?

Refusal to comment on/'rank' me and Drew sucks more

Are you calling that response a refusal to comment because the meaning is unclear?

[Lycanfire]

Any reason for this?

thought 46 was caring too much which seems unusual for enchant

but i'd be lying if i said i had a good reason. i just had a reason. i had to do it to em.

[Lycanfire]

furtive blowing a vein because people don't want to read him probably irl wolfy bad vibe

[Doctor Drew]

But.......Aureal was making a pretty clear jokey post about you, and you shoe horned your wiki in there to get your self meta out in the open. There was no reason for you to do that, and asking the about there experience was completely out of the blue as well. The whole thing seems so soooo contrived. You cannot it good conscience say that it felt like natural response.

Oh, so I can't bring up the thing you brought up, gotcha......that really progresses the game.

Okay, so I gotta ask... Just because something feels like an unnatural response, does that make it suspicious? As the person on the other side of this conversation, I agree, yeah it was unnatural. Self-promotion rarely is natural. Someone who goes to the effort to put together a wiki about themself, however that's done, probably wants people to pay attention to it.

Who here actually went to look at furtive's wiki because it was mentioned? I sure didn't.

And who is starting to feel like they might end up having to look if this continues?

I guess the question got a little buried, but I would like some feedback on it!

Imo, yes if something seems unnatural and forced, it does seem suspicious to me, especially when under the guise of acting like they are scum hunting.

And then on top of that the unnatural post was about promoting their wiki, hence why I made the post about Furtive already trying to put their self meta out there. If they made a somewhat jokey or tongue and cheek reference to it, I probably would not have had as much of an issue with it all.

[Aureal]

Imo, yes if something seems unnatural and forced, it does seem suspicious to me, especially when under the guise of acting like they are scum hunting.

And then on top of that the unnatural post was about promoting their wiki, hence why I made the post about Furtive already trying to put their self meta out there. If they made a somewhat jokey or tongue and cheek reference to it, I probably would not have had as much of an issue with it all.

Do you think his mentioning the wiki makes people more likely to actually look into him? Surely if people want to look into how the other people in the game play they can just view their other games. I'm not sure what the wiki is really supposed to do.

You've been all about this wiki thing- what do you think of Enchant and those voting there?

furtive blowing a vein because people don't want to read him probably irl wolfy bad vibe

That... almost made sense.

[Aureal]

Reads, in order of towniness:

biancospino - May be the only sane person in the game, good insight into setup, not a lot of scum hunting yet though.
bugspray - Some decent insights mixed with strange ones like 33 which seems so backwards that it seems like a joke?
Not Known 15 - Splits hairs about which roles to give info on without giving any real reasoning. Decent though little attempt to scum-hunt.
Doctor Drew - While I get the dislike for random advertisements, the vendetta against furtive might be a bit much, it's a weird thing to be pressing on.
furtiveglance - So many posts, so little insight into his thought process which seems to be all over the place- could be a red flag. Also one of the people to immediately offer info on mafia picks- possibly working with Enchant to try to get info on picks out there?
Enchant- Fishing for role info and easily distressed by a vote- possibly upset that it derailed an attempt at some info-seeking scheme?
Lycanfire - Basically nothing here, needed prompting to even give a reason for their vote which is basically just reiterating mine and NK15's.
Hellhound1 - WHERE ARE THE DEATH LASERS?!?

In conclusion, are you all scum?

[Doctor Drew]

The wiki thing wasn't really a big thing, but it was a thing......and furtive's reaction to some slight prodding is the bigger issue.

But, that is not what you asked.

I disagree with the mentality Enchant had with wanting to out all PR's, but I struggled to find an overwhelming urge to call it a town or scum motivation(honestly does feel like anti-town behavior, but that doesn't mean pro-scum).

As far as the votes, I don't hate it. Furtive was so worried about them being at E-2(side note, been awhile for me and I am used to saying L-2, I totally understand why it changed.....but what does E stand for?), which......isn't a big deal? Even being at E-1 isn't a big deal........though whoever were to do that obviously should announce it.

God, sorry to go right back to Furtive, but why so worried that Enchant is at E-2 when you have gave no indication that you are so certain they are town?

[biancospino]

VOTE: Not Known
I am sure they know.

I actually just figured this joke out. Now I feel real dumb.

And Furtive casually making sure the wifom is strong, that certainly is a thing.

Mhm, I'm not sure I see it. I don't read any of early furtive's posts as invoking wifom, but I guess you probably had one or two specific posts in mind?

Spoiler: Enchant/Aureal

Do you really think I'm supposed to be no more suspicious of you and your suggestion without explanation than I was of Drew? Particularly given how its form shifted, and you're being inconsistent about what sort of picks you had?

Explain this

You didn't give any reasoning why you think sharing info will help town, you just gave your opinion. What scenarios do you envision possibly coming about because of shared info?

You first suggested sharing"PR" picks, implying town roles.

No, it's something you put in my mouth to make your mudthrowing better. When i said to share PR picks, i meant PR picks.
PR = Power Role
Mafia can have power roles.


So anyway, setup knowledge is universal. After people start dropping, they obviously can't share it, so why we don't now.

That is an incredibly week counter argument. I will go out on a limb and say that the picks people sent in for town were PR(maybe someone picked a vanilla town).

And the backtracking on top of that.

This is a thing that Aureal also did, and it does sit a bit uneasy with me, I'm not convinced that it's fair to say that Enchant was backtracking. They said that neither of their picks were Mafia, and then revealed a set of pick descriptions that were not of Mafia picks. Aureal did at some point imply that this there was a contradiction there because some of those picks

could

be assigned to Mafia, but... I don't see it?
I also don't see what sort of backtracting could Drew possibly have seen here exactly? I would like clarifications, I'm open to admit having misunderstood someone along the way.

Spoiler: furtive/Drew

I don't have a reason to townread Enchant but it's widely accepted that early wagons are scummy

While I can agree with this(re: early wagons), you shouldn't discount something just because of that. Maybe you aren't town reading them, but this isn't a reason to not scum read them.

And again with the dramatics, one of your early posts(the wiki thing) was the first thing in this game that really jumped out to me as odd. I chased that lead and your reaction to some light pressure has been telling, at least to me.

It's also been telling to me, as in it told me that your push is embarrassingly terrible.

Ok, so how about you do something instead of just creating noise?

So many posts, no real substance.

High horse much, this whole convo is probably by far the greatest noise producer in this thread, and is actually approaching just devolving to name calling. I see the potential of it being TvT, but in all cases it's becoming a bit unwieldy.

When someone other than Drew posts, I'll post

Well, mission failed successfully.

More to the merit though, the wiki thing is not really anything. Look, I did found it a bit out of place myself, given that I don't like the concept of metaing players and whatnot, but if someone is the sort of player who likes to rely on meta I also don't see anything wrong with just asking people to share past games, and I rekon that pointing to one's wiki is a convenient way to do that. If that's all what the fuss is about, then I think that's pretty weak. What is it about furtive's reaction that irks you exactly?

@Drew, E stands for "Eliminate" or "Elimination". Or Execute if you like that flavor better

FoS: Drew

[furtiveglance]

VOTE: Aureal

[Enchant]

By the way, you also should check my wiki page and analyse my games.

[furtiveglance]

Reads, in order of towniness:

biancospino - May be the only sane person in the game, good insight into setup, not a lot of scum hunting yet though.
bugspray - Some decent insights mixed with strange ones like 33 which seems so backwards that it seems like a joke?
Not Known 15 - Splits hairs about which roles to give info on without giving any real reasoning. Decent though little attempt to scum-hunt.
Doctor Drew - While I get the dislike for random advertisements, the vendetta against furtive might be a bit much, it's a weird thing to be pressing on.
furtiveglance - So many posts, so little insight into his thought process which seems to be all over the place- could be a red flag. Also one of the people to immediately offer info on mafia picks- possibly working with Enchant to try to get info on picks out there?
Enchant- Fishing for role info and easily distressed by a vote- possibly upset that it derailed an attempt at some info-seeking scheme?
Lycanfire - Basically nothing here, needed prompting to even give a reason for their vote which is basically just reiterating mine and NK15's.
Hellhound1 - WHERE ARE THE DEATH LASERS?!?

In conclusion, are you all scum?

Guarantee that we'll all be reading this after Aureal flips Mafia to try and work out which one is also Mafia

[biancospino]

@furtive, can you sell me on Aureal? It's strictly because of the convo with Enchant?

[furtiveglance]

@furtive, can you sell me on Aureal? It's strictly because of the convo with Enchant?

No, I'm getting the sense that Aureal is nervous about how she's perceived. I mean that readslist for instance. Completely unprompted, and there's nothing to go off anyway so why even do one. I think she feels the need to have stances

[biancospino]

Mhm. The list was indeed unprompted and quite arbitrary. Now, 156 she responds to a comment you did on NK, about how Enchant was a bad vote, and 160 she asks about opinion on Enchant's voters out of the blue while the rest of the post is about something else -- I am catching that you believe Auriel came out as being exceedingly preoccupied with the optics of her vote?

[furtiveglance]

Mhm. The list was indeed unprompted and quite arbitrary. Now, 156 she responds to a comment you did on NK, about how Enchant was a bad vote, and 160 she asks about opinion on Enchant's voters out of the blue while the rest of the post is about something else -- I am catching that you believe Auriel came out as being exceedingly preoccupied with the optics of her vote?

I didn't talk about her vote, nor did I really pick up on it as scummy at the time but looking back it could be

I think I was quite clear that I got a general sense of self-consciousness from her play which I found scummy

Having said all that though, I don't think Mafia would vote together on Enchant this early so there's probably maximum (and exactly) 1 Mafia in [Aureal, Lycanfire, NK15]

[Enchant]

Let's kill bugspray?

[furtiveglance]

Let's kill bugspray?

I think they could be town based on a quick look at their ISO

[Enchant]

nah

[Aureal]

@furtive, can you sell me on Aureal? It's strictly because of the convo with Enchant?

No, I'm getting the sense that Aureal is nervous about how she's perceived. I mean that readslist for instance. Completely unprompted, and there's nothing to go off anyway so why even do one. I think she feels the need to have stances

OK, well that's at least something. You were really starting to worry me with the way you go around ignoring questions and arbitrarily declaring people scum.

Would still be nice if you'd respond to my questions though.

As for unprompted, you were just complaining about how there's not enough going on but Drew goading you and you're doing all the work here; so it feels pretty weird that you find it suspicious when someone tries to offer something else to talk about. I had some time to review the game last night so I made some notes on what I thought so far, and didn't see much reason not to share.

Mhm. The list was indeed unprompted and quite arbitrary. Now, 156 she responds to a comment you did on NK, about how Enchant was a bad vote, and 160 she asks about opinion on Enchant's voters out of the blue while the rest of the post is about something else -- I am catching that you believe Auriel came out as being exceedingly preoccupied with the optics of her vote?

Just pretty sick of hearing about furtive's wiki and wanting to prod people to get thoughts about other things. That's like, all Drew has talked about. Branch out a little, will ya?