kitten around/furtiveglance+Lady Lambdadelta/Ranger mafia thread

[Ranger]

We always cooperate here btw. Betraying never worth it.

[Ranger]

Shall we all just vote for members of the other Mafia team, or am I being really small-brained? I want to, it's funny and I could get town cred for it.

This is a game marked by the mafia cooperating with each other in order to win.

We don't win if we betray, ever, regardless of if they betray or cooperate. The mafia need each other to work as a team of six. Without that cooperation, we can't win.

If betraying offered a tangible benefit such as disabling the town's power roles while keeping our kill, it would be worth considering.

But betraying

doesn't

offer that tangible benefit. It's bait. We must cooperate.

[Ranger]

Should I unvote tris then?

Vote whoever you want, but strategically so. We need the other scumteam tho.

[Ranger]

I find it convenient to forget altogether. :P

[Ranger]

I find it convenient to forget altogether. :P

(It's easier to make reads appear genuine if you've forgotten who the scum are and simply choose not to refresh your memory. :P)

[Ranger]

Btw the

actual

actual reason I don't believe the mason claim is because of the potential nightless mechanic in place.

If the scum lose their nightkill turning it into nightless--especially with one scumteam killed--the result of having two conftown would quite simply be a guaranteed town win. The scum mathematically

couldn't

win. It'd be mathematically impossible. The masons could never be eliminated and thus there would

always

be two conftown alive.

[Ranger]

I've no clue what's happening right now and will give updates when I do.

[Ranger]

Am I allowed to out the other team/is that a good idea?

It is absolutely a terrible idea.

We need the other scumteam.

We need all six of us to survive, and to combine our efforts.

I kinda want to turn our 10-person neighborhood into a PT that is exclusively the two scumteams, as to allow us to coordinate better.

[Ranger]

Thanks a lot Gamma. I knew she knew who I was but anyone reading those games can now also figure that out. She didn’t out me but she mentioned two games where I either played with under my main or I outed my alt. Awesome, we probably need to kill her tonight before she does anymore damage. :facepalm:

Don't panic. Gamma has no leverage in this game. She isn't a threat.

While I do want her dead because I want to have an all-scum neighborhood to chat in, she can be limmed. The only reason we should ever shoot her is if we want to have one of us fake being a vig (if so, I'd like to be the vig), and I'd prefer to not lock that in on N1.

[Ranger]

@Guys help me to get into this. And how also do we win this? What’s to stop other team from outing all of us?

What stops the other team from outing all of us is us not outing all of them. Cooperate, no betray. Treat as one team of six with two kills, not as two teams of three.

We win by coordinating and keeping us all alive, which should be relatively easy. The only player at true risk is furtiveglance right now. (There's an outside chance of me being in danger, but I doubt it.)

Stay calm, stay smart, and remember the town doesn't know anything so the scum can coordinate without them any the wiser.

[Ranger]

Am I allowed to out the other team/is that a good idea?

It is absolutely a terrible idea.

We need the other scumteam.

We need all six of us to survive, and to combine our efforts.

I kinda want to turn our 10-person neighborhood into a PT that is exclusively the two scumteams, as to allow us to coordinate better.

That would actually be a great idea but we’d have to get a lot of town limmed/nk’d for that to happen.

No better time to start than the present!

Keep in mind we theoretically might be able to get 3 per cycle. (Other faction + us + elimination.) Once they see our kills, they're likely to catch on to our intent.

[Ranger]

Maybe things will work themselves out, who knows

Have faith; they will.

[Ranger]

Xyzzy likes 3ps, so we can’t auro assume everyone else is guaranteed town.

^

[Ranger]

Math is so obviously scum here. :lol:

Sure, but as long as he isn't eliminated, works for us. :P

[Ranger]

I wish we could have a pt with the other team, we could totally rule the game, kind of like Survivor where we just vote all of the town out and if both teams stay intact we could actually just totally annihilate all the town. 6 united scum have a lot of power.

That's why we kill in the neighborhood (ideally CatScratchFever) so we get a scum neighborhood.

[Ranger]

Why not MT? She also has access. Do you think she’s not reading the pt? Do scum get double kills?

Morning Tweet is also an option.

{Cat Scratch Fever, Save The Dragons, KittyTacky, HighPrincessErinys, Morning Tweet} is the pool, and I'm okay with any of those.

Ranger Kills: Morning Tweet

For now.

I want to perform the kill.

[Ranger]

Mafiascum psychiatrist isn't for serial killers; it's for detecting if a player has the capacity to kill (and has not done so), akin to a gunsmith.

[Ranger]

We can just greed. No need for disloyal doctor used at all. Hold off on it until we need it.

furtive can Neapolitan anyone outside the neighborhood and outside of Titus/imaginality for the info.

[Ranger]

Complusive doc though^^.

I see.

Protect Not_Mafia.

[Ranger]

I think I should probably protect STD no? Because when I get asked, it will be a lot more convincing if I’m actually not lying.

Kitten protects STD

You're scum with scumbuddies that can vouch for you; you don't need to tell the truth.

[Ranger]

Ranger Kills: Cat Scratch Fever

I don't know what to do exactly, hope and pray the other team can work with us to keep us five all alive I suppose.

[Ranger]

Protectives will be on Lycanfire given his end of day work.

We should be fine.

[Ranger]

No, I'd pick hydra recruit.

Check for players in recently completed Theme Games, remove those who aren't the best at scum, and select from the remainder. Ideally, a game you were in.
{Something_Smart, fireisredsir, Datisi} are options from Warrior Cats (a game you were in).
{Radical Rat, Firebringer} are options from Cosmos Mafia (a game you were in).

There may be more options from those games or other games but as it's your decision, you'd be the best judge.

[Ranger]

The thing with this is that there isn't much town motivation to choose it, unless I claimed that my role was just this ability.

You haven't been using your abilities in a remotely town way.

So just claim the hydraizer. That being the entirety of the role is something xyzzy has used before; having extra

beyond

that would actually be suspect.

[Ranger]

And why didn't I use it N1?

You can claim it was a N2 action.

xyzzy loves night-specific actions like N2 vig, N3 doctor, etc.

A N2 hydraizer is right up xyzzy's alley.

[Ranger]

Don't waste those actions.

You're not in immediate danger and we should use those actions only when we are sure we need them.

I suggested the hydra action specifically because we don't want to waste the useful actions yet.

[Ranger]

I think CSF isn't a likely protect target because CSF wasn't the most crucial aspect of kitten around's elimination, and hasn't done the post-elimination analysis that Lycanfire did. Towns have recency bias. They'll remember Lycanfire's posts, but forget the posts prior to that. Especially given longer nights. Longer nights = shorter memory spans for TPRs.

Similarly, Lycanfire just went through the work to do all that analysis. That instantly makes them a protection target. While we know Lycanfire isn't vanilla, Lycanfire's analysis suggests not a protective role and not an investigative role. If Lycanfire were investigative, that analysis would be done after having investigating, not before. If Lycanfire were a protective, that analysis would put Lycanfire directly in the line of fire, and AS the protective, Lycanfire would know likely no protectives on them. Ergo, whatever role Lycanfire has, it's not a useful investigative; it's not a useful protective.

So we holster in targeting Lycanfire with anything until later.

[Ranger]

I lied. :P

Ranger Kills: HighPrincessErinys

[Ranger]

For the record, if all goes according to plan, tomorrow should be lylo:
There’s 14 alive right now, with 5 scum who collectively win together.

Two successful nightkills brings us to 12 alive tomorrow.

With a single mislim, we get 11 alive going into night. Assuming no failed scum kills, that’s 9 alive with 5 scum.

Even if a scum is shot, that would be 8 alive with 4 scum alive. Both factions should choose cooperation, and while we lose a nightkill, we still have four scum alive that can win together, and a nightkill, with 8 alive.

Even if Titus bombs scum, that doesn’t change. Her death brings us down to 8 alive with 5 scum.
Or 7 alive with 4 scum if one of us gets killed.
Or 6 alive with 3 scum if one of us gets killed and one of us gets bombed by Titus.

Regardless, as long as no scum dies TONIGHT or TOMORROW, and as long as all four nightkills succeed, we should win.

The main threat to this is if Not_Mafia is a Jester.
Ideally, we can kill two birds with one stone and convince Titus that NM is a jester, get her to bomb him, and instead mislim Quiet Owl.

But barring scum death or failed kills, we're actually positioned to win fairly easily.

[Ranger]

I might as well whip out the hydra ability.
Who did you have in mind again?

We need someone with charisma and force of will, capable of pulling off the final needed mislim to win.

My first instinct is thus Lady LambdaDelta, as she is quite capable of doing precisely that.

[Ranger]

I wouldn't count ya chickens. This game seems insanely chaotic and I wouldn't be surprised if there was another Vig or something

Still, they need to shoot scum TONIGHT, or we win. I feel fairly confident we can win here. We need to take some caution to be sure, but we shouldn’t deny ourselves the win off of the possibility of town killing scum.

[Ranger]

I might as well whip out the hydra ability.
Who did you have in mind again?

We need someone with charisma and force of will, capable of pulling off the final needed mislim to win.

My first instinct is thus Lady LambdaDelta, as she is quite capable of doing precisely that.

Do you think my (1) game with her in HotD is a convincing reason to recruit her?

Yes.
She literally won the town that game on the day which was Mylo.
Your recruiting her makes perfect sense.

[Ranger]

That’s inconvenient.

I believe we might still be able to orchestrate a tie, if we play it perfectly, but I need to figure out how that would work.

[Ranger]

By the way, whatever you do, don’t use multiquotes in private topics. They’re bugged and will carry the quote into every topic. Which is a one-way ticket to a modkill.

[Ranger]

We can’t kill someone who we know is mafia, so we can’t kill McMenno.

A second mafia death means one faction loses their kill, but the other faction loses a member (if both cooperate).

If they have a role capable of permanently surviving, then we may be able to orchestrate a tie, with us having the nightkill and them having the kill foiling.

Otherwise, our only chance for a tie is to have even numbers and hope that the "can’t kill mafia" is carried to the logical conclusion of not suddenly being able to when only scum remain.

[Ranger]

MOD: Per our role pm, we cannot kill someone who we know to be mafia.
If there are zero town players left alive and the factions are equal sizes, e.g. 1:1, 2:2, would the result be a stalemate?

Logically PER THE WORDING OF THE ROLE PMs, it

should

be, because there’s no "disabled in endgame" clause. So the inability to kill someone who we know to be mafia should remain, and the inability to eliminate each other would be an eternal stalemate.

[Ranger]

Okay plan is still a go, then!

It does require us giving the kill to them and them to forfeit a member, but it's doable.

[Ranger]

I stand by my assessment of N3 hydraizer being a valid claim in of itself for what it's worth.

[Ranger]

It's unfortunate the choice happens right now. If the selection were later, I would definitely say do not betray. I'm not sure what to do with it happening now.

[Ranger]

Do we have a thread connection to them to like
Talk to them, convince them into cooperating?

Not directly. There is the neighborhood. From that neighborhood, I signaled to MathBlade to choose cooperate. I mentioned the key phrase and signaled to him unambiguously, so he knows I want to choose cooperation.

My plan was to have the neighborhood be just scum alive so that tomorrow night, we could coordinate actions and orchestrate a tie.

I'm not sure what the math is for the scum death during

this

night. It wasn't supposed to happen until next night at the soonest.

[Ranger]

Ranger, I'm assuming you no longer want to co-operate after hearing about the win conditions?

We could have still won together.

We can’t kill someone who we know is mafia, so we can’t kill McMenno.

A second mafia death means one faction loses their kill, but the other faction loses a member (if both cooperate).

If they have a role capable of permanently surviving, then we may be able to orchestrate a tie, with us having the nightkill and them having the kill foiling.

Otherwise, our only chance for a tie is to have even numbers and hope that the "can’t kill mafia" is carried to the logical conclusion of not suddenly being able to when only scum remain.

MOD: Per our role pm, we cannot kill someone who we know to be mafia.
If there are zero town players left alive and the factions are equal sizes, e.g. 1:1, 2:2, would the result be a stalemate?

Logically PER THE WORDING OF THE ROLE PMs, it

should

be, because there’s no "disabled in endgame" clause. So the inability to kill someone who we know to be mafia should remain, and the inability to eliminate each other would be an eternal stalemate.

From what I am aware of - yes that would be a draw/stalemate/whatever word you want to use for that situation because neither team can kill the other.

The plan was to get us to 2:2, and then eliminate all the town.

In a 2:2 gamestate, the result would have been a tie, because per our role PMs, scum can't kill scum, so 2:2 is a stalemate.

That ability to cooperate depended on scum living through tonight. Since a scum died, I don't know if we have the ability to win now. There's 12 alive, and a scum is going to die bringing us down to 11 with at minimum one faction losing their nightkill.

It

might

still be possible to win, but it's tough regardless. 11 alive with 4 scum (both cooperate), or 9 alive with 2 scum (one/two betray).

We still can win together, but ideally, we needed the ability to coordinate. I wanted to talk to MathBlade more unambiguously on N4.

[Ranger]

MathBlade indicated in 381 from the neighborhood he agreed cooperation was good, but he wasn't going to blindly follow, if it makes a difference.

[Ranger]

https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/Summon_Phoenix could be funny

I love it.

[Ranger]

By the way, if you couldn't tell, I lied about my claim. :P

Ranger Kills: Gimli

Obviously, Titus is killing me.

If Titus is lying, she should be eliminated tomorrow.
If Titus is telling the truth, her, imaginality, and I should all die.

Factoring in the nightkill, tomorrow should have 4 alive, Mylo.

Gimli's role represents a Mylo risk. Remove it, and the only unknown is Not_Mafia.
N_M lives, with Prince, Kitty, and Phoenix for company.

That should be a win for us, yes?

[Ranger]

xyzzy:

I realize I'm about to join him, so if I wait can deliver the message personally, but I actually meant to deliver the message at daystart, so can you tell MathBlade the following, please?

I'm so sorry, MathBlade. I sincerely did not intend to betray you. I had a plan which would have worked to allow for us to tie. Per the mods, when kitten around died we became separate factions technically opposed to each other, but there was a loophole which would have allowed us to still win together.

Per our role PM, we can’t kill someone who we know to be scum. That clause never had a deactivation to it, so would apply indefinitely.

By eliminating town on D4 and double-killing N4, we could have orchestrated a forced tie. I confirmed with the mod a 1:1 or 2:2 would be a tie, because the faction with a kill couldn't kill a player they knew was mafia.

I claimed my kill, hoping you'd catch my intent to signal "please kill KittyTacky", so we could have an all-scum pt for coordinating the tie from N4 onwards.

It would've worked, too, but I wasn’t anticipating being vigged on N3. N4, being vigged was fine, but N3 was too soon. It meant my plan would no longer work, because we needed the extra nightkill for one extra day.

I truly am sorry. We SHOULD have won the game together. A lucky stray vig for reasons highly inaccurate ruined the plan, but it WOULD have worked, so both factions COULD have cooperated if not for the N3 vig. I do deeply regret it, but I didn’t have a backup plan. I trusted LLD's judgement, and their call was Betray. You did deserve to have won. <3

[Ranger]

Oops, meant to use either her/faer in that message, not 'their'. My bad.

That was indeed the plan I setup for orchestration. My only concern is whether shooting NM is better than shooting Gimli, since Gimli will be able to think Phoenix is town and NM is practically confirmed town at this point.

Not_Mafia is a wildcard thanks to having not claimed, but there is enough suspicion on his actions that an elimination may be possible still.

He is who to shoot if not Gimli, but since you're going to be the slot in Mylo, it's your call.

If you prefer Gimli alive over NM, then we kill NM.

[Ranger]

I don't know why you're talking about this like I hadn't laid out this plan from start of day to end of day including the part where we bus you into the ground.

Oh, btw. We picked the only choice that won us the game, but hilariously the other side confirmed did Collaborate, because the death that started the scum chain of events was QO shooting you, Ranger.

So, lol, you're welcome.

Oh, I figured.

I knew how bad both cooperating would be for us as I correctly suspected I was the N3 trigger.
Both betraying would've been bad, but I figured MathBlade would stick to cooperation, not knowing my plan was reliant on things which couldn't work anymore.

I knew your intent was to orchestrate a town elimination and have favorable interactions with me.

I place full trust in your judgment, including tonight.

[Ranger]

Prince would push either Gimli or NM I feel.
Prince would be pushed by Gimli, but NM doesn't push anyone.
KittyTacky might push Prince, but if not probably pushes either Gimli or NM.
NM is a wildcard.
Gimli seems to think you're town.

I might review more later.