Newbie 2110 - Postgame

[Alianna]

1.06

Votecount 1.06

Dionysus (E-2): skitter30, Sparletrix, MegAzumarill
Ydrasse (E-2): bewolkt, Dionysus, Aureal
bewolkt (1): KingTroll

Not Voting (2): iamconfused, Ydrasse

With 9 players alive, it takes 5 votes to secure an elimination.

The day deadline is in (expired on 2023-02-04 03:56:40).

[MegAzumarill]

Dio let's assume what you are saying is true.

No reads at this point are producing anything useful. This is obviously bad for town.

So your solution is: Do absolutely nothing about it and keep the game like that.

So the logical conclusion I have to come to is:

A: You are actively trying to hurt town (And thus are scum)
B: Are lying about your perspective of the game (And thus are scum)
C: Making these claims without internalizing your own thought (Which feels disproportionately more scum than town)

[MegAzumarill]

By saying you are town you are asking us to believe that a townie would say "Town is in a bad situation right now and I am content to have it stay like this for the forseeable future"

[MegAzumarill]

Which is obviously a fairly outlandish proposal

[Dionysus]

Dio let's assume what you are saying is true.

No reads at this point are producing anything useful. This is obviously bad for town.

So your solution is: Do absolutely nothing about it and keep the game like that.

So the logical conclusion I have to come to is:

A: You are actively trying to hurt town (And thus are scum)
B: Are lying about your perspective of the game (And thus are scum)
C: Making these claims without internalizing your own thought (Which feels disproportionately more scum than town)

I think you misinterpret me a little bit. I'm not saying no one should engage in this. I'm just saying I don't *personally find it very helpful*.

[Dionysus]

Dio, imo there's been some serious content in the past couple of pages - have you started to form any reads off of those?

Also just to say I'm not ignoring this - I will reply to it I just need to re-read first and I want to give it enough time.

[Ydrasse]

how do you expect the game to progress beyond us voting for one another for “less useful” (my words here) reasons if you won’t put in the work yourself? frankly i don’t think many people enjoy solving from wisps but you have to offer something, enough to let us escape the early game (which imo has already progressed passed solving from fluff)

pedit o ok

[MegAzumarill]

Dio let's assume what you are saying is true.

No reads at this point are producing anything useful. This is obviously bad for town.

So your solution is: Do absolutely nothing about it and keep the game like that.

So the logical conclusion I have to come to is:

A: You are actively trying to hurt town (And thus are scum)
B: Are lying about your perspective of the game (And thus are scum)
C: Making these claims without internalizing your own thought (Which feels disproportionately more scum than town)

I think you misinterpret me a little bit. I'm not saying no one should engage in this. I'm just saying I don't *personally find it very helpful*.

It's still intentional inaction on your part when town! you would be prompted gor action and the argument stands.

[Sparletrix]

Sparl: I largely agree with your philosophy on figuring out who people are up there in 138, so I think an interesting question to ponder is whether Dio even realized that saying those things is probably going to reinforce negative impressions of him.

I don't want to put words in anyone's mouth, but I think part of it is probably a desire to "get to the good bit" - considering he said he was mostly a shortform player. I know I definitely feel that way to a certain extent, but... like I said in 65, talking and pushing votes is more useful than complaining.

I'm interested to see his current thoughts though, yes.

[Sparletrix]

*65 - I still need to learn the formatting.

While I'm here - I think I'd like to hear more out of bewolkt too. Whether they've got opinions or feelings or thoughts or not.

[KingTroll]

Hi guys! I'm back. Meg is my strongest townread right now. Funny how they made it out of my readlist the first time, one day I'll keep track of everyone.

I liked Aureal's entrance! I'm not sold on Ydrasse being a wolf. If anything, skitter30 seems to have reacted the worst from the case out of gut, before they began formulating their answers again.

No one has done... anything with my vote on bewolkt. That's dissapointing. I expected someone to at least comment on it beyond asking me why it was there. Hardly been a good use of my vote, but what happens happens. Half of me wants to say it clears them because I'd expect their partner at least would've jumped on for some post-flip cred later on-

Town:
KingTroll
MegAzumarill
Aureal
Sparletrix
Ydrasse

Would like more from:
[iamconfused]'s slot
bewolkt

Mafia:
skitter30
Dionysus

In spirit, my vote will be on Dion, at least until they produce content as they have promised. In practice, I would rather die than put someone at E-1.

[Aureal]

I am also not really feeling Ydrasse either.

what does 'feeling' mean here?

not really in tune with/trusting Ydrasse

While Dio's comment about PR fishing is maybe a bit much, she is coming off odd. She gives advice for the newbies, then in 73 she seems to just be toying with bewolkt. Then back to trying to be some sort of mentor. In 90 she downplays KT's vote on her for being friendly and giving advice as one of the goofiest things to ever accuse someone of.

i actually liked her response to KT's vote here. Why is it scummy of her to 'downplay' his vote on her?

Well obviously scum don't want people to feel like there's reason to vote for them. And I don't feel like it's a very good reason to use to dismiss someone's feeling. See the following sentence.

I mean, come on, this is a game of mafia, people will accuse you for literally anything! Like hair twirling, that's

incredibly

suspicious and we are clearly being warned about her.

this setnance is contributing to my confusion r.e. the tone here

Sorry! That one I wanted to put an emoticon after to highlight it being sillier. But I also don't really like putting them mid-paragraph, they just seem to break the flow. So I didn't.

But it's 95 that really started making me feel more wary about her. Here she's not just playing mentor but also using the opportunity to subtly implant the idea that she is town in the process.

i feel like 95 os p common phrasing and i don't think it's ai or like trying to sublimnally messgae anything

That's okay, you don't have to feel the same!

Overall i find your whole tone here to be rather confusing and weird

Confusing and weird seems like a reasonable description of Mafia.

[Aureal]

Like, especially if you thought voting you for being the 30th skitter was a somewhat serious attempt to sort? Even more mystifying.

No, i was saying that that post was obviously *not* a serious attempt to sort

I'm very confused about what your post 135 means, then. You said 19 seemed like a non-RVS early attempt to sort. And that 33 pinged you the same way.

[Aureal]

Oh yeah, and I'm still waiting for Meg's comment about 19!

the downside of giving that advice is that i will have to mow some posts down eventually u.u

i’m more interested in seeing how the wagons form without my influence because i’m one of the potential ones and i know my perspective, wanted to see what people drifted to without me making dueling ones

How do you expect the game to progress beyond us voting for one another for less useful reasons if you won’t put in the work yourself?

[Aureal]

Dio let's assume what you are saying is true.

No reads at this point are producing anything useful. This is obviously bad for town.

You're referring to Dio with that first sentence? Also, "obviously"?

So your solution is: Do absolutely nothing about it and keep the game like that.

So the logical conclusion I have to come to is:

A: You are actively trying to hurt town (And thus are scum)
B: Are lying about your perspective of the game (And thus are scum)
C: Making these claims without internalizing your own thought (Which feels disproportionately more scum than town)

Wow, this seems like a pretty bad-faith argument. A isn't even a valid point- not doing anything is the complete opposite of "actively trying" to do anything, let alone hurt town. I'm not even sure what C is supposed to mean. And I could further add the possibility of:

D) Honestly willing to admit to his own capabilities and preferences in hopes that people will understand that, as part of a group in which people will have varying styles of approaching the game

By saying you are town you are asking us to believe that a townie would say "Town is in a bad situation right now and I am content to have it stay like this for the forseeable future"

A bad situation? Catastrophize much? It's like 72 hours into Day 1. We don't even have a player in one slot yet. You are waaaaaay overblowing the fact that one guy said he doesn't have reads yet because he's not good with early game fluff.

It's still intentional inaction on your part when town! you would be prompted gor action and the argument stands.

"prompted for action"? So no townies ever lurk?

[Aureal]

I don't want to put words in anyone's mouth, but I think part of it is probably a desire to "get to the good bit" - considering he said he was mostly a shortform player. I know I definitely feel that way to a certain extent, but... like I said in 65, talking and pushing votes is more useful than complaining.

I don't know that I'd characterize this as him complaining. He commented that he didn't have reads yet because he didn't think there was serious content to base it on, and has been catching flak for it so he's trying to explain. An unfortunately easy rabbit hole to fall into.

[Alianna]

BlueBloodedToffee replaces iamconfused.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Will read up on this at some point today.

[Dionysus]

Sparl: I largely agree with your philosophy on figuring out who people are up there in 138, so I think an interesting question to ponder is whether Dio even realized that saying those things is probably going to reinforce negative impressions of him.

Where have I complained?
I don't want to put words in anyone's mouth, but I think part of it is probably a desire to "get to the good bit" - considering he said he was mostly a shortform player. I know I definitely feel that way to a certain extent, but... like I said in 65, talking and pushing votes is more useful than complaining.

I'm interested to see his current thoughts though, yes.

[Dionysus]

Sparl: I largely agree with your philosophy on figuring out who people are up there in 138, so I think an interesting question to ponder is whether Dio even realized that saying those things is probably going to reinforce negative impressions of him.

I don't want to put words in anyone's mouth, but I think part of it is probably a desire to "get to the good bit" - considering he said he was mostly a shortform player. I know I definitely feel that way to a certain extent, but... like I said in 65, talking and pushing votes is more useful than complaining.

I'm interested to see his current thoughts though, yes.

Where have I complained?

[bewolkt]

Some of my thoughts:

- Still wary about skitter´s behaviour. Would like to hear more about her reads because I feel she´s not giving much away
- Also found kingtroll´s answer really bad, but I feel that´s not something a scum would do, especially at this stage of the game, and I also liked his #160
- Quite liked as well Aureal´s entrance into the game

I´d also like to hear a bit more about whether Ydrasse´s thoughts on kingtroll have changed after the last couple of pages

[Sparletrix]

Sparl: I largely agree with your philosophy on figuring out who people are up there in 138, so I think an interesting question to ponder is whether Dio even realized that saying those things is probably going to reinforce negative impressions of him.

I don't want to put words in anyone's mouth, but I think part of it is probably a desire to "get to the good bit" - considering he said he was mostly a shortform player. I know I definitely feel that way to a certain extent, but... like I said in 65, talking and pushing votes is more useful than complaining.

I'm interested to see his current thoughts though, yes.

Where have I complained?

After sleeping on this... I'm not really sure? I think I was either referring to the vaguely dismissive attitude I felt from 63/82 or just a general "this would be bad if the mood led to this" comment. Either way, remind me not to type half-asleep.

[MegAzumarill]

Dio let's assume what you are saying is true.

No reads at this point are producing anything useful. This is obviously bad for town.

You're referring to Dio with that first sentence? Also, "obviously"?

So your solution is: Do absolutely nothing about it and keep the game like that.

So the logical conclusion I have to come to is:

A: You are actively trying to hurt town (And thus are scum)
B: Are lying about your perspective of the game (And thus are scum)
C: Making these claims without internalizing your own thought (Which feels disproportionately more scum than town)

Wow, this seems like a pretty bad-faith argument. A isn't even a valid point- not doing anything is the complete opposite of "actively trying" to do anything, let alone hurt town. I'm not even sure what C is supposed to mean. And I could further add the possibility of:

D) Honestly willing to admit to his own capabilities and preferences in hopes that people will understand that, as part of a group in which people will have varying styles of approaching the game

By saying you are town you are asking us to believe that a townie would say "Town is in a bad situation right now and I am content to have it stay like this for the forseeable future"

A bad situation? Catastrophize much? It's like 72 hours into Day 1. We don't even have a player in one slot yet. You are waaaaaay overblowing the fact that one guy said he doesn't have reads yet because he's not good with early game fluff.

It's still intentional inaction on your part when town! you would be prompted gor action and the argument stands.

"prompted for action"? So no townies ever lurk?

He claimed not only to not have reads, but that he would not attempt to gain them at that time or do anything else that could be helpful, even when asked to.

Sorting players is the way town wins this game.

He is claiming the game is in a state where town cannot further their win condition and because of that he will not attempt to do -anything- about it. It shows a disconnect from what he is claiming is true, and what he would do if he truly thought that, regardless of the actual state of the game.

And then he's dismissing any votes on him for no particular good reason.

[MegAzumarill]

Accuracy isn't an issue
It's better to share your thoughts whether or not you feel particularly confident.

For example I am liking sparl for town.

Because reading people at this stage isn't what I'm good at. I'm better at hunting scums when things are a bit more developed and I have more information to hand.

Then do things worth reading, if you think this isn't. The game's not going to play itself.

I find that commenting on anything at this stage, even small things, helps the game move along

Dionysus, what do you think abt my vote on you?

And Dio was explicitly asked to give input regardless and explicitly either ignored it or dismissed what he did interact with as early game fluff

[Dionysus]

Dio let's assume what you are saying is true.

No reads at this point are producing anything useful. This is obviously bad for town.

You're referring to Dio with that first sentence? Also, "obviously"?

So your solution is: Do absolutely nothing about it and keep the game like that.

So the logical conclusion I have to come to is:

A: You are actively trying to hurt town (And thus are scum)
B: Are lying about your perspective of the game (And thus are scum)
C: Making these claims without internalizing your own thought (Which feels disproportionately more scum than town)

Wow, this seems like a pretty bad-faith argument. A isn't even a valid point- not doing anything is the complete opposite of "actively trying" to do anything, let alone hurt town. I'm not even sure what C is supposed to mean. And I could further add the possibility of:

D) Honestly willing to admit to his own capabilities and preferences in hopes that people will understand that, as part of a group in which people will have varying styles of approaching the game

By saying you are town you are asking us to believe that a townie would say "Town is in a bad situation right now and I am content to have it stay like this for the forseeable future"

A bad situation? Catastrophize much? It's like 72 hours into Day 1. We don't even have a player in one slot yet. You are waaaaaay overblowing the fact that one guy said he doesn't have reads yet because he's not good with early game fluff.

It's still intentional inaction on your part when town! you would be prompted gor action and the argument stands.

"prompted for action"? So no townies ever lurk?

He claimed not only to not have reads, but that he would not attempt to gain them at that time or do anything else that could be helpful, even when asked to.

Sorting players is the way town wins this game.

He is claiming the game is in a state where town cannot further their win condition and because of that he will not attempt to do -anything- about it. It shows a disconnect from what he is claiming is true, and what he would do if he truly thought that, regardless of the actual state of the game

.

And then he's dismissing any votes on him for no particular good reason.

Point 1:

this isn't quite what I said. I said I am not good at reading people at this stage and I don't enjoy engaging in reads from fluff because I think they are often wrong and don't find them particularly helpful for *me*. I never at any point said I wouldn't participate on substantial points. Which I'm doing now!

Point 2:

I haven't said any of this? I never said the game wasn't winnable or that I wouldn't do anything to help.

Point 3:

also not true? Quite a few serious votes are on me now and I'm engaging with them. I said I wouldn't engage (seriously) in unserious votes. The reason for this is because I know they are completely unserious and so I don't have anything serious to say to them. I can respond with fluff, but not doing so isn't scummy. I don't know why this particular point is such an issue especially when there are other people who have ignored votes on them.

Accuracy isn't an issue
It's better to share your thoughts whether or not you feel particularly confident.

For example I am liking sparl for town.

Because reading people at this stage isn't what I'm good at. I'm better at hunting scums when things are a bit more developed and I have more information to hand.

Then do things worth reading, if you think this isn't. The game's not going to play itself.

I find that commenting on anything at this stage, even small things, helps the game move along

Dionysus, what do you think abt my vote on you?

And Dio was explicitly asked to give input regardless and explicitly either ignored it or dismissed what he did interact with as early game fluff

Also, shock, NOT TRUE. Someone asked me for reads and I said I would reply to it later when I have the time to sit and read the whole thread.

I feel like these posts are both full of misrepresentations if not straight up mistruths and I can only assume it is deliberate. So, for that:

VOTE: MegAzumarill