Newbie 2110 - Postgame

[Alianna]

1.09

Votecount 1.09

Dionysus (E-2): skitter30, Sparletrix, MegAzumarill
MegAzumarill (2): Dionysus, Aureal
bewolkt (2): KingTroll, BlueBloodedToffee
Ydrasse (1): bewolkt

Not Voting (1): Ydrasse

With 9 players alive, it takes 5 votes to secure an elimination.

The day deadline is in (expired on 2023-02-04 03:56:40).

[MegAzumarill]

@BBT I think scum!Aureal makes more sense on a town!dio although that's partially because I know my alignment. Scum!Aureal has a lot to gain by feuling a TvT argument and credit they could try to gain my defending a townie going overboard.

I also pretty fairly disagree with the kingtroll read as I feel the questionable logic you are pointing out stems from a genuine desire to solve rather than an arbitrary explanation for scum!king to vote there.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Scum!Aureal has a lot to gain by feuling a TvT argument and credit they could try to gain my defending a townie going overboard.

Can you expand on this a little more?

[MegAzumarill]

Dio is taking a lot of heat from players right now and would be the defacto lim if deadline was now most likely.

Assume Aureal turns the elim around on me. I know that's a mislim, and my green flip plus existing suspiscion would likely make Dio the elim tomorrow, making 2 mislims if Dio is town.

[skitter30]

The entry post defending Dion was good, I think scum!Aureal can come in and create a narrative that ends with a scum read and vote on Dion. Wouldn't be difficult to do. However, Aureal comes in and starts defending the player who is most under pressure and goes against the grain of the thread (I think scum would find this difficult to do and is almost playing sub-optimally at that point given the direction the game was heading).

Having said that, I just realised that Aureal actually ended up on the Ydrasse wagon which somewhat negates what I just said above given they put Ydrasse to E-2. The main point of Dion being a much easier push/vote still stands though as does pushing against thread consensus

So what pinged me about aureal's initial post was exactly that, that she came in with such a strong read on dio and then voted to create wagon momentum elsewhere

i do agree wit your points r.e. pushing against thread consensus

there is a part of me that wants to explore a vote out of aureal/dio tbh, but i'm not sure who to vote for

[skitter30]

I really don't want to revisit the merry-go-round that happened earlier but Dion explicitly said they would comment on things when they had the opportunity to read up.

fair enuf

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You know it doesn't work like that.

As well as this, that's not the premise that Aureal entered the game with. It's a developed read, which IMO, seemed fair given your discussion with Dion.

The same could be said for you, no? You're pushing Dion who you think is scum, and then if he flips town, you just start pushing Aureal.

How is that any better than what you're saying Aureal is doing?

PEdit - Above is @Meg

@Skitter - Regarding Aureal's entrance post, what do you suppose Aureal's motivation for that would be as scum? (Assuming Dion/Aureal is not the exact scum team)

[skitter30]

so upon intially reading aureal's post my thought process was that dio/aureal is exactly the scumteam
but i'm not sure i want to bank everything on me getting the exact right solve on p9 or whatever we're on

i agree with you that the entrance doesn't make sense for scum!aureal without scum!dio

[MegAzumarill]

You know it doesn't work like that.

As well as this, that's not the premise that Aureal entered the game with. It's a developed read, which IMO, seemed fair given your discussion with Dion.

The same could be said for you, no? You're pushing Dion who you think is scum, and then if he flips town, you just start pushing Aureal.

How is that any better than what you're saying Aureal is doing?

PEdit - Above is @Meg

@Skitter - Regarding Aureal's entrance post, what do you suppose Aureal's motivation for that would be as scum? (Assuming Dion/Aureal is not the exact scum team)

It's an observation I had and it's one of the eays to how I'd expect scum to react to an SvS. I don't think it's an unreasonable premise though it's not a full scumcase on its own, I think it's worth keeping in mind in case of a dio clear for whichever reason or if other information implicates Aureal.

The difference between aureal and my place in the situation is pretty clearly different although you could make the same argument it's a different basis.

Expanding my towns a little bit.
Skitter/BBT -Green

[Dionysus]

Ok my parents are finally gone and I have time to sit at my PC and do this properly. I'm writing this as I go so this should be a longish post.

I will go down each player in order they are in the OP, except for Meg. I think the most sensible place to start is Meg since my vote is on her.

Meg

You were the first person to pick up on me saying I don't like to develop reads from fluff. I understand why people disagree with me here, but my dislike of developing reads from fluff is hardly unreasonable, so I have some questions for you.

1. Why have you tunnelled on me over this issue?
2. Given all of this, why have you misrepresented what I have said in your pushing of me?

Question 2 is the more important of these, but I can only think of 4 possible answers:

a. You are scum, trying to create a narrative of me being anti-town and hoping that if you say things enough with a certain framing that town will start to believe it
b. You are town, but you are generally a bit loose with how you word things and don't try to be too exact
c. You are town or scum, but haven't paid that close enough attention to my posts and are running with it without checking

I fully expect you to push back on this characterisation, so:

151 - I never said let's do nothing or discouraged anyone else from developing reads of their own
152 - literally made up quote
172 - addressed this nonsense already
173 - same here, and I think 187 is you conceding that you got this wrong. Although not after several posts where you continue to push the narrative you set out in 173

You have said my approach to day 1 is anti-town. This is a fair enough criticism. You must agree that this sort of thing is also anti-town. I scumread this slot so far.

Sparl

Not loving this slot so far. Reading your ISO, you joined Meg in suspecting me (or disagreeing with me, if you'd prefer that word) over my approach to day 1. But......you haven't provided anything yourself? Criticising me for not wanting to provide any reads so early whilst not providing any of your own other than bw the only narrative that has taken hold up till now. So, what are your reads? You must have some. Could go either way.

Aureal

I like this slot so far. If scum, it would be easy to jump on the bw against me, especially since it seems I am very outnumbered in my view of RVS. However they have considered the fact that what I'm saying might simply be true, which speaks to a town mindset imo. I don't agree with all of their reads, though. I like their interactions with KT, too. Solid town so far.

KingTroll

Not sure what to make of this slot either. Mostly all he has done is post readlists without any explanations and has refused to elaborate when asked by other players. This is *definitely* not helpful for town. Not clear why he townreads Meg the most. His response to the way people largely ignored the vote on bewolkt is pretty interesting, though. This gives him towncred for me because as scum drawing attention to your own actions can backfire very badly. So I think this slot could go either way. @ KT - why are you refusing to give reads? You can't handwave it away with fluff, pls give a reason

BlueBloodedToffee

Really like this slot. Nice entrance to the game, lots of well thought-out and developed reads. There isn't much activity from this slot so far (due to replacement), but I like what I see. Townread so far, but not a huuuge amount to go on yet.

bewolkt

I actually kind of like this slot? Maybe because I relate to stuff like #67, but this doesn't feel like lurking scum to me so far. More like a (totally) new player a bit perplexed at what is happening and finding their feet. Their contributions have grown more substantial (#170) too. I wouldn't rule out a scum partner possibly helping them, but I townread them for now. @ bewolkt - what was your take on KT's vote? I'm sorry if you addressed this already, I couldn't see anything about it

Ydrasse

My first vague scumread, re-evaluating I like this for town. Well, maybe not that far because their contributions have been largely non-existent, but I like their defence of it? (#137, #144). I think I'm basically just intrigued with what they mean/plan to do later in the game when it gets a bit juicier. If I get a sniff of scum I'm not gonna let it go.

Skitter

I feel like this is the slot I've had the most heat from apart from Meg, but unlike her they have done so without twisting my words or misrepresenting what I've said, which automatically makes it 100% more legitimate and genuine in my eyes. I get confident townie from here, although I think his reads are bad, because I am not scum and I don't think Aureal is either. @ Skitter - what are your thoughts on what I've said here about you and Meg?

Town

Aureal
Skitter
BBT
Ydrasse

Neutral

Bewolkt
Sparl

Scum

Meg
KT

[Dionysus]

What tags do I use for collapsible spoilers? Annoyingly the actual spoiler tags didn't do that I wanted!

[skitter30]

hey dio, i appreciate you going through and sharing your thoughts

collapsible spoiler is (or, well, used to be before the upgrade, we'll see what it looks like after i hit submit)

[spoiler =] [/ spoiler]-> with the '=' after the word spoiler, and you need to remove the space after the backsplash and before the =

wrt your reads:
meg - ig i fundamentally disagree with this read here, as i feel like meg was investigating the same things in your posts that i was noticing. i don't really feel like he was approaching this from a scummy pov, or misrepping you, and i feel like he made some valid points. i don't think i'd vote him at this time, but i can see why you felt frustrated
kingtroll - i still like their early game, but their town equity has been going down a bit for me as that ~town energy hasn't persisted as much as i would have hoped

(i'm a she btw)

i think i kinda want to move my vote off of dio, my 'need more content from these slots' pool is sparl and bewolkt, and my 'they have a decent amount of content but i don't really feel confident either way' pool is bbt and ydra

VOTE: sparl

[Dionysus]

hey dio, i appreciate you going through and sharing your thoughts

collapsible spoiler is (or, well, used to be before the upgrade, we'll see what it looks like after i hit submit)

[spoiler =] [/ spoiler]-> with the '=' after the word spoiler, and you need to remove the space after the backsplash and before the =

wrt your reads:
meg - ig i fundamentally disagree with this read here, as i feel like meg was investigating the same things in your posts that i was noticing. i don't really feel like he was approaching this from a scummy pov, or misrepping you, and i feel like he made some valid points. i don't think i'd vote him at this time, but i can see why you felt frustrated
kingtroll - i still like their early game, but their town equity has been going down a bit for me as that ~town energy hasn't persisted as much as i would have hoped

(i'm a she btw)

i think i kinda want to move my vote off of dio, my 'need more content from these slots' pool is sparl and bewolkt, and my 'they have a decent amount of content but i don't really feel confident either way' pool is bbt and ydra

VOTE: sparl

Apologies for misgendering And same to Meg too if I have!

And I totally agree that Meg was going after the same points as you. I don't think that in itself is scummy and I don't want to come across as being retaliatory. My read is based purely on how the arguments have been framed, because I think he has done it in a way that hasn't been a proper representation of what I have said and made it seem like I have been an active blocker of

other players

when all of this stemmed from me saying that

I

do not like to develop reads from fluff*. From this a whole narrative was spun where Meg said I wanted town to sit on their hands and make no attempt to progress our win condition, that I don't want town to make progress and that I am ignoring people asking me to contribute, when none of this is true.

In fact, reading again these interactions in context, you may have had similar suspicions but your pushes were based on different things. For you, it was that I ignored your early vote on me. Most of our interactions were around this and these largely happened before my main interactions with Meg. For Meg, it was #60 from me. Do you really read this one post and then think Meg's spin of everything off the back of it is not a misrepresentation?

Meg hasn't considered the plausibility that I was being genuine and has tunnelled which is at best anti-town and at worst, scummy.

*Can I also just highlight how ridiculous it is that this has been blown up the way it has, because the fluff chat ended so long ago and proper gameplay has started. Like I literally just meant I didn't want to have reads from the first 3 or 4 pages where half the votes are shitposts. Like come on that is not anti-town.

[skitter30]

so i guess why i don't mind meg's push is that i also sort of got the vibe from 60 and earlier posts that you were trying to evade and avoid giving content by saying that you don't like to post on fluff

it looked like an evasion and like trying to post without saying anything concrete, so it also set off some not-great vibes for me
your posting since then has changed my mind, but i understand where meg is coming from and i don't scumread him for it

[Dionysus]

so i guess why i don't mind meg's push is that i also sort of got the vibe from 60 and earlier posts that you were trying to evade and avoid giving content by saying that you don't like to post on fluff

it looked like an evasion and like trying to post without saying anything concrete, so it also set off some not-great vibes for me
your posting since then has changed my mind, but i understand where meg is coming from and i don't scumread him for it

These are all fair reasons to suspect me, but I'll reiterate: these reasons do not involve a misrepresentation of what I have said. This is the key difference, not the sus itself.

But I think at this point it is better to let others chime in and see if anyone else agrees with me.

[bewolkt]

@ bewolkt - what was your take on KT's vote? I'm sorry if you addressed this already, I couldn't see anything about it

You´re right that I didn´t addressed it much on the moment apart from commenting later a bit on how he responded to the inquiries about the vote.

But basically I never felt the need to address it directly because there were no reasons given for the vote, because it was his third vote on a row without any substantial basis, and by the time I saw it he had already been asked about why he did it and he already had refused to answer, so it was clear to me that it was part of his strategy. Now I understand his explanation for it, even though I think that his logic is a bit flawed. If he indeed wanted to scan everyone´s takes on me he should just have given a reason and that conversation would have started, but by refusing to do it the narrative just shifted to him. As I said before, and I agree with you, this is what reads more town to me about this, because I doubt a scum would have let that happen which could have backfired on him

[Dionysus]

@ bewolkt - what was your take on KT's vote? I'm sorry if you addressed this already, I couldn't see anything about it

You´re right that I didn´t addressed it much on the moment apart from commenting later a bit on how he responded to the inquiries about the vote.

But basically I never felt the need to address it directly because there were no reasons given for the vote, because it was his third vote on a row without any substantial basis, and by the time I saw it he had already been asked about why he did it and he already had refused to answer, so it was clear to me that it was part of his strategy. Now I understand his explanation for it, even though I think that his logic is a bit flawed. If he indeed wanted to scan everyone´s takes on me he should just have given a reason and that conversation would have started, but by refusing to do it the narrative just shifted to him. As I said before, and I agree with you, this is what reads more town to me about this, because I doubt a scum would have let that happen which could have backfired on him

Thank you for answering!

I'll be honest, I don't love this answer. For lack of a better description, it feels a little light for the word count, and too reliant on thoughts others have given already.

Do you have any reads of your own?

[bewolkt]

VOTE: Bewolkt

I guess this comes from the fact that you want me to 'Do more'. Please let me know if you´d like my input on anything specific. I also don´t feel super comfortable on making strong reads yet because I feel that to me the information is still quite limited so I´m trying to figure out everyone at this point. But I´m trying to contribute by asking others about their thoughts and giving mine when asked without deflecting.

So far my strongest townreads are aureal followed by some gap with kt while I don´t feel confident about anyone else but especially skitter. From the last couple of pages Meg is the one that is pinging me most, first for their stance with dio and especially the way they flipped so fast now for Aureal and then how fast they were convinced that you were town. Those posts feel quite confusing to me

[skitter30]

can you talk a little bit more about your read on me?

[bewolkt]

Thank you for answering!

I'll be honest, I don't love this answer. For lack of a better description, it feels a little light for the word count, and too reliant on thoughts others have given already.

Do you have any reads of your own?

Also found kingtroll´s answer really bad, but I feel that´s not something a scum would do, especially at this stage of the game, and I also liked his #160

Well I had already expressed before my thoughts of reading his answer as something more townie than scum, and I think I was the first one to do it (anyone correct me if I´m wrong), so I don´t feel that was reliant on anyone else´s thoughts.

I have given some other opinions in my last post, but let me know if you´d like me to elaborate more on any

[Ydrasse]

apologies, not going to be offering much probably next day or so
VOTE: bbt

badposts, omgus, etc

[bewolkt]

can you talk a little bit more about your read on me?

As I said before, at the beginning I didn't like the way you were mostly just asking questions and not giving arguments to your reads, which was a bit suspicious to me. Since then you've been more vocal but I don't understand how you still express such strong confidence in Meg being town. You still reference their entrance as a positive thing and their push on dio, but for example sparl also had a similar type of entrance and also pushed a bit on dio and yet you never expressed that type of confidence.

Not saying anything in a definitive way, but still all of this gives me the worst vibes so far

[skitter30]

in what way is sparl's entrance similar to meg's ?

i do agree with you that 65 expressed similar vibes wrt dio as meg did, but meg's struck me as more sincere (esp. since it was so protracted / he was willing to have a long back and forth with dio abt it )

[Alianna]

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[Alianna]

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