Mini Normal 2288: Reposting Same Picture As Flavor Are Lame

[redFF]

gonna actually VOTE: klikk

[redFF]

Alright so i've gone through klick's ISO for day 1 and made some notes

Vig should shoot geraintm he's probably scum but not at a level where it will be anywhere near conclusive by the end of D1

subtly trying to direct vig shot. if klick flips scum geraintm is probably town.

one thing klick has done is call a lot of people town, mainly gryff, i've added some quotes on that below

I kinda think GamerGryff is easy scum early wagon bait

By that I specifically mean that by Page 7 I could easily see ar least one of Taly/Penguin/geraintm being scum and feeling like Gryff is a comfortable place to be

Yeah Gryff reads as hard town to me

Yeah Gryff reads as hard town to me

Is it really just the lack of fear from getting scumread that supports this?

Yes, though after sleeping on it I think 'hard town' is an exaggeration

to me this is the most damning klick/gryff interaction, and makes me think if klick is scum gryff is likely to be too. defending a possible buddy to a point, and then backing off when called on it. but, as we'll see, he eventually goes back to hard defending gryff.

it can come from town but i don't think gryff should have the image of me as "good"

i feel like he may be scum that i caught early on and that's why he assumes i'm "smart" idk

If I was scum I would try to discredit you. I don't have an ego about myself as scum

I mentioned before I don't consider myself to be particularly good at mafia either, and that's not even factoring in that haven't played in like half a decade.

I believe this self-perception
Gryff is town please unvote

@all

Gryff is incredibly obvious town. If you're town, get your head out of your ass and find somewhere else to vote.

gryff and gamma were competing wagons at this stage. i'd say at this stage if klick ends up being scum then gryff is highly likely to be too.

some people take games too seriously.

if u aren't here to joke and have fun why play

Because I want to learn something

I think it's fine if you want to joke and have fun
But let me do my thing please

no, im forcing u to have fun and joke or ur banned.
Im the police of content of this game.

If ur post doesn't contain at least 2 jokes. U get eliminated.
These are firebringer rules and u will respect my AURITAHY

Oh uh oh gosh the pressure uh
Okay I got one

What do horses say when they've fallen down?

Help, I've fallen and GRYFF IS OBVTOWN WHAT ARE YOU ALL DOING UNVOTE PLS

really quite desperate to get votes off gryff (and therefore on to gamma)


Klick's made a bunch of posts giving townreads to people, all 3 of these read like pocketing to me

Brickwalll is currently my second most confident townread

Shirou feels towny too

redFF makes posts that I agree with and it makes me lightly townread them

generally there was a lot more calling people town than calling people town in Klick's day 1 posting

Yeah Gryff reads as hard town to me

So, I would love to know what exactly made Gryff read as hard town that early lol cause before this, Klick was just in the Kow!Maf boat saying what we wanted to hear?

Klick's ISO is literally only talking to/about
* Me/Kow
* Gryff
* Brickwall

like, that's it, you can't just quote a wall of reads and go "this comes from town" like, do you want to discuss any of those reads? And after last night we learned Klick's 2nd most confident TR was Brick, when like, before last night it was kinda just "brick has a point!" and that was it, not commiting to a read, I went "hey here's my thoughts" which now, I'm like, brick sounds friendly! I like brick a lot!! so sure maybe it's wrong, but the way Klick defends, and that level of confidence, just feels like it comes from TMI

and like, for someone who STARTED THE GAME with a readslist, there has been no update to it. which is odd to me, like, you posted a readslist cause we were like "yeah lists are cool!" and you made a "list" through post 16, which was literally just your read on me? then "brick is my very confident tr" that's not on the list!! I'm still confused where this brick TR came from looking at the ISO, like, it just appeared tbh, and Klick is barely interacting with people, yeah I'm down with this, Shirou is a very close 2nd place for my vote

(This almost feels like I can make a list right now... jk idk where I'd put gamma/gryff on the list)

I do have further thoughts on people
I, in fact, have a full readslist
I am comfortable with the amount I have shared thus far and don't see how it follows that 'having reads that I have not already discussed' leads to 'so Klick must be scum'

here's andante making notes of the fact that klick is calling a bunch of people town and little else. i don't like his response here, claiming that he is keeping things close to the chest and not sharing his scumreads for *reasons*

hey

klick

, we differ greatly in how we solve

i could use some interaction at the moment

I'm down
Any topic in mind? I'm particularly bad at actively probing the thread in ways that actually help me solve
But I'm happy to help

makes an excuse not to scumhunt

I think Gamma is the only person doing any talking right now who is scum

The other two are like geraintm and Penguin or something

ok, finally some scum reads. Gamma, hard lurking geraintm, and penguin who i believe was not posting much content in thread at this stage.

I think geraintm is a pretty good scum equity slot

as far as i can tell, geraint was klick's second biggest scumread after gamma day 1. (please correct me if i'm wrong klick)

My working theory of this game is at least two scum in {geraintm, Herta, PenguinPower, redFF} with one potential deepwolf in {Taly, Shirou, Firebringer, Andante}

again, very non-commital on scumreads. this post really says very little, listing 8 players and vaguely gesturing to 2 or 3 of them being scum. this being one of klick's few posts going into his scumreads combined with the freedom with which he has handed out town-reads feels scummy. buddying, calling players town, but very little active scumhunting or FOS.

so to recap
- Klick buddied up to a bunch of players day 1
- Klick did not call many people scum, was reticient to share scum reads, and when he did, he was purposely as vague as possible
- Klick was a big driver of the day 1 Gamma mislim, but allowed other players (brick) to do most of the hard work
- Klick REALLY did not want gryff lim'd. Combine this with Gryff's scumminess, and the fact that Gamma's wagon was the counter-wagon to gryff, it's highly likely if either gryff/klick flips scum, the other is too

I'm gonna take a look at Klick's day 2 posting soon, maybe tonight maybe not, but I feel this is fairly solid and worth exploring. i've alreayd voted klick as i was going through his ISO, and i think others should do the same.

[PenguinPower]

i'm going to pull my hair out

[GamerGryff]

Andante i def agree that gryff was being weird post hammer. At the time my thoughts were if gamma flips scum then gryff is likely scum too. I will reread woth the perspective of the gamma town flip and i encourage others to as gryff was actinf strange for sure.

I was being weird post hammer because I decided to be silly and let my hair down a little bit

ok

Humor is the way I cope with stress even if it's cringe

[Kowahbunga]

red makes me feel safe

[Klick]

here's andante making notes of the fact that klick is calling a bunch of people town and little else. i don't like his response here, claiming that he is keeping things close to the chest and not sharing his scumreads for *reasons*

I mean if you'd like the reasons I can give them to you
I don't really like shitting up the thread with things that aren't that important or that I don't feel strongly
I also generally find it much easier to decisively find town than to find scum
This is how I usually scumhunt and it's verifiable
I think if anyone in this game went back and tried to analyse my meta they'd actually find it odd that I expressed as much confidence on Gamma as I did, because I very rarely confidently express a scumread

It's not accurate to say that I wasn't 'sharing my scumreads'
I was holding some reads back
They were all weaker townreads that weren't properly developed yet

hey

klick

, we differ greatly in how we solve

i could use some interaction at the moment

I'm down
Any topic in mind? I'm particularly bad at actively probing the thread in ways that actually help me solve
But I'm happy to help

makes an excuse not to scumhunt

This is just... not what's happening in the post you quoted


Everything else is either some variation of 'Klick is just posting townreads' or reaches that assume I'm scum prior to the point being made

I don't know if you're familiar with the term 'solving' in the context of Mafia redFF
It popped up in the last few years and is a synonym of 'scumhunting' only it also involves trying to find the alignment of town
This has become more common in the discourse than 'scumhunting' because solving for town has become more recognised as a legitimate means of making reads over the last few years

There's not a *reason* that having lots of townreads and no confident scumreads would be more likely to come from scum than town
In terms of pure utility, scum get way more out of throwing suspicion at people than they do from calling people town
So when you say 'Klick has a lot of townreads and no confident scumreads and that's *scummy*', the response I want to give is 'because...?'

[Herta]

VOTE: klick

[Lazy Shirou]

i don't think i like the people voting klick or the case too much, i hope i'll have time for this tomorrow or so

[Klick]

This town feels a little rudderless, someone should come in and drop a fat juicy case, weve had 50 pages of posts now

See I think there's actually a nonzero chance the scumteam is exactly redFF/Herta/geraintm and they really didn't like the look of my PoE.

It feels really cocky to say that, but redFF wants to shift the momentum of the thread away from where it's currently at, and I'd say the thread momentum is currently on Herta or geraintm as today's elimination.

...hahaha I just went to verify by looking at the vote count, and no, there is one other viable wagon in theory, Shirou. But who is on the Shirou wagon?

Official Vote Count 2.01

With 11 votes in play, it takes 6 to eliminate.

Lazy Shirou

(3): Kowahbunga, Herta, geraintm

geraintm

(2): redFF, Klick

Andante

(1): GamerGryff

Herta

(1): Lazy Shirou

PenguinPower

(1) Firebringer

Klick

(0):

Not Voting

(3): Andante, Taly, PenguinPower

Deadline:

(expired on 2023-02-12 06:48:00).

Mod notes:

This is hard one

[Klick]

I want to look more closely at Herta soon because I don't really have a solid individual read there, I thought their posting was kinda towny early in the game
But optically {redFF, Herta, geraintm} feels like a very very good pool to lim in today

[geraintm]

I'm looking froward to Klick trying to push this scum team

[redFF]

This town feels a little rudderless, someone should come in and drop a fat juicy case, weve had 50 pages of posts now

See I think there's actually a nonzero chance the scumteam is exactly redFF/Herta/geraintm and they really didn't like the look of my PoE.

It feels really cocky to say that, but redFF wants to shift the momentum of the thread away from where it's currently at, and I'd say the thread momentum is currently on Herta or geraintm as today's elimination.

I was the first to vote geraint today, but its unlilely hes scum with you given youve called for a vig to shoot him and are pushing him today

[Klick]

I'm looking froward to Klick trying to push this scum team

Alright not all three of you then
Which one is your buddy then, redFF or Herta?

[redFF]

here's andante making notes of the fact that klick is calling a bunch of people town and little else. i don't like his response here, claiming that he is keeping things close to the chest and not sharing his scumreads for *reasons*

I mean if you'd like the reasons I can give them to you
I don't really like shitting up the thread with things that aren't that important or that I don't feel strongly
I also generally find it much easier to decisively find town than to find scum
This is how I usually scumhunt and it's verifiable
I think if anyone in this game went back and tried to analyse my meta they'd actually find it odd that I expressed as much confidence on Gamma as I did, because I very rarely confidently express a scumread

very rarely except for right now when you claim to have found out the entire scumeam from my case on you

It's not accurate to say that I wasn't 'sharing my scumreads'
I was holding some reads back
They were all weaker townreads that weren't properly developed yet

hey

klick

, we differ greatly in how we solve

i could use some interaction at the moment

I'm down
Any topic in mind? I'm particularly bad at actively probing the thread in ways that actually help me solve
But I'm happy to help

makes an excuse not to scumhunt

This is just... not what's happening in the post you quoted


Everything else is either some variation of 'Klick is just posting townreads' or reaches that assume I'm scum prior to the point being made

I don't know if you're familiar with the term 'solving' in the context of Mafia redFF
It popped up in the last few years and is a synonym of 'scumhunting' only it also involves trying to find the alignment of town
This has become more common in the discourse than 'scumhunting' because solving for town has become more recognised as a legitimate means of making reads over the last few years

There's not a *reason* that having lots of townreads and no confident scumreads would be more likely to come from scum than town
In terms of pure utility, scum get way more out of throwing suspicion at people than they do from calling people town
So when you say 'Klick has a lot of townreads and no confident scumreads and that's *scummy*', the response I want to give is 'because...?'

disagree, scum calling townies town to pocket and buddy them is a standard tactic.
as to the term "solving", sure its important to develop townreads in order to find scum, i never claimed otherwise

[Klick]

very rarely except for right now when you claim to have found out the entire scumeam from my case on you

Yes, the inspiring confidence I have in exactly you/Herta/geraintm being the solve is obvious from my posting

as to the term "solving", sure its important to develop townreads in order to find scum, i never claimed otherwise

And yet you want to say things like 'you're avoiding scumhunting' and use me not having confident scumreads as evidence for that.

[Herta]

I want to look more closely at Herta soon because I don't really have a solid individual read there, I thought their posting was kinda towny early in the game
But optically {redFF, Herta, geraintm} feels like a very very good pool to lim in today

I don't care about your poe. What i didn't like was your condescending, over the top reaction to redff in 1205. Thar's highly scum indicative.

[geraintm]

I'm looking froward to Klick trying to push this scum team

Alright not all three of you then
Which one is your buddy then, redFF or Herta?

I don't know about redff, but I am 99% sure herta is town. But you cannot back off now, you are committed to this and I want you to explain yourself properly.

[Klick]

I want to look more closely at Herta soon because I don't really have a solid individual read there, I thought their posting was kinda towny early in the game
But optically {redFF, Herta, geraintm} feels like a very very good pool to lim in today

I don't care about your poe. What i didn't like was your condescending, over the top reaction to redff in 1205. Thar's highly scum indicative.

1205 wasn't intended to be condescending at all and I don't think redFF took it that way? He can correct me if he did
I was fairly honest but I didn't talk down to him
It didn't feel like I was reacting in any sort of over the top way either, can you expand?

[Klick]

I'm looking froward to Klick trying to push this scum team

Alright not all three of you then
Which one is your buddy then, redFF or Herta?

I don't know about redff, but I am 99% sure herta is town. But you cannot back off now, you are committed to this and I want you to explain yourself properly.

I'm committed to exactly what I've said at the strength that I said it
I'm not committed to what you say I believe

[Herta]

I want to look more closely at Herta soon because I don't really have a solid individual read there, I thought their posting was kinda towny early in the game
But optically {redFF, Herta, geraintm} feels like a very very good pool to lim in today

I don't care about your poe. What i didn't like was your condescending, over the top reaction to redff in 1205. Thar's highly scum indicative.

1205 wasn't intended to be condescending at all and I don't think redFF took it that way? He can correct me if he did
I was fairly honest but I didn't talk down to him
It didn't feel like I was reacting in any sort of over the top way either, can you expand?

I don't know if you're familiar with the term 'solving' in the context of Mafia redFF
It popped up in the last few years and is a synonym of 'scumhunting' only it also involves trying to find the alignment of town
This has become more common in the discourse than 'scumhunting' because solving for town has become more recognised as a legitimate means of making reads over the last few years

This came across as indignant. "Well let me lecture you about this thing we call solving because you can't figure it out yourself." Which translates to me as "How dare you accuse me of something. You've really irritated me (ie. caught me out), and I've got to take that frustration out on you now by intimidation."

[Klick]

It wasn't sarcasm it was legitimate
redFF hasn't played in several years and has been using other older terms and no one ever said 'solving' back in the good old days
He told me I wasn't scumhunting but I think it's pretty clear that I'm solving, just not in the way redFF is laying out
And I think that could be influenced by his perception of how people should be scumhunting based on how people used to play

[Klick]

I am 99% sure herta is town.

If you're this level of confident that Herta is town, help me and everyone else see it.

[Firebringer]

herta, ur attitude and play are a lot different than mini 2285.
is there a reason for this

[geraintm]

I'm looking froward to Klick trying to push this scum team

Alright not all three of you then
Which one is your buddy then, redFF or Herta?

I don't know about redff, but I am 99% sure herta is town. But you cannot back off now, you are committed to this and I want you to explain yourself properly.

I'm committed to exactly what I've said at the strength that I said it
I'm not committed to what you say I believe

I want to look more closely at Herta soon because I don't really have a solid individual read there, I thought their posting was kinda towny early in the game
But optically {redFF, Herta, geraintm} feels like a very very good pool to lim in today

You have narrowed down on the three of us. It is a very very good pool. You are committed to that in my book....

I'm not sure what you think I am saying about your views beyond agreeing with you that you really, really think there are multiple scum in that pool of 3 -i dont believe ive put words in your mouth at all, but I really, really want you to expand on them and convince others to join you.

BTW, want shirou back in the game, that is where I am currently voting

[geraintm]

I am 99% sure herta is town.

If you're this level of confident that Herta is town, help me and everyone else see it.

VOTE: klick