Hollow Knight Mafia [game over]

[Aristeia]

VOTE: Firebringer

[Aristeia]

Now I ask to be named king of this thread. I have already taken over the scum PT by spamming it to death while DATISI forever in how long he takes to start games, sat idly by.

I have a feeling this is something that actually happened

[Aristeia]

It's a level of detail I think he adds in for extra fun when he's actually mafia.

[Aristeia]

he does have a flair for the dramatic

[Aristeia]

It's a level of detail I think he adds in for extra fun when he's actually mafia.

Or did I make it all up.
What if there is no scum PT and I am a serial killer who claims to be the king.
What if I am town who hates being town so i have to pretend to be mafia for the fun of it.

Or what if i am just shit posting.

We may never know.

I am guessing you didn't make it up.

[Aristeia]

awwwww


You're so sweet

[Aristeia]

Morning Tweet voting unvoting and voting again in the same post feels performative.

[Aristeia]

you are so kind and generous :swoon:

[Aristeia]

I am going to miss you when I kill you today

[Aristeia]

simply tell your team to kill me so we can dance in the dead pt

[Aristeia]

unfortunate

:sigh:

[Aristeia]

Morning Tweet voting unvoting and voting again in the same post feels performative.

cant u just be happy ui joined ur wagon

I am happy! <3

but also suspicious ~_~

[Aristeia]

This conversation becomes a lot more funny if ur scum.
I am kind of hoping thats the case.

most telegraphed bus of all time ? :winkyface:

[Aristeia]

Ari if i told u, that ur my only read right now.
What read do u think i would have on u

I feel special ty

[Aristeia]

Not gonna guess where I place u?!?!

I would be disappointed if it was not "radiant shining lodestar of townieness"

[Aristeia]

I don't think peta's very townie at all fwiw but I hope you're right

[Aristeia]

[Aristeia]

and here I was hoping to get carried by Mistyx, Ender of Scum, Scourge of Radiance, Bringer of Darkness.

[Aristeia]

are you sure you need to put on so much armor? your horse looks like it's dying under the weight.

[Aristeia]

we are all scum on this glorious day

[Aristeia]

Spoiler: For Dats <3

[Aristeia]

I don't really get whimsical fun townie vibes from her posting unfortunately.

What's your take on it?

[Aristeia]

VOTE: Klick

[Aristeia]

its our first game together don't be mean

[Aristeia]

if you're town i promise I will figure it out

[Aristeia]

its our first game together don't be mean

Apologies.

But either way it's starting to grow kind of tiresome as a method of reading me. You say it every game, it's yet to be true as far as I can remember. It's just kind of a bummer

I didn't mean to be tiresome and unfun I apologize for that.

[Aristeia]

Taly feels really town

[Aristeia]

That might be the worst post you made so far Ari.

they can't all be bangers

[Aristeia]

I'm mostly just here to shitpost though.

[Aristeia]

i saw your pt it was pretty sad

[Aristeia]

i get depressed when my pt partner leaves me alone.

[Aristeia]

Something I would like Ari to elaborate on when she gets the chance is why she feels the way she feels about Peta.

While looking back on my notes it kind of just dawned on me the best way to REALLY elaborate what I see with peta. I don't wolf!Peta engages with the thread the way he has so far. Maybe it's crazy of me to get this impression from his first 2 rvs votes as well as 151, but I feel like isolations 5-9 have only helped reinforce this vibe I am getting.

the way i read peta is to look for things he does as town exclusively.

i dont really expect him to be readable this early in the game and i have a lot of respect for him as a player.

[Aristeia]

Something I would like Ari to elaborate on when she gets the chance is why she feels the way she feels about Peta.

While looking back on my notes it kind of just dawned on me the best way to REALLY elaborate what I see with peta. I don't wolf!Peta engages with the thread the way he has so far. Maybe it's crazy of me to get this impression from his first 2 rvs votes as well as 151, but I feel like isolations 5-9 have only helped reinforce this vibe I am getting.

the way i read peta is to look for things he does as town exclusively.

i dont really expect him to be readable this early in the game and i have a lot of respect for him as a player.

ig my follow-up question would be do you really think he hasn't done anything he wouldn't be able to do exclusively as villager?

He hasn't done anything he can't do as mafia, also i don't really think he's had the oppurtunity either.

your read is based on your mental model of how scum!peta would interact with the thread and i find expectations of behavior to not be the best for making accurate reads.

[Aristeia]

i feel the best about TRing Ali, Gimli & Taly

i think klick vpb & redff are all fine places to vote.

id tr firebringer but i dont want him to get mad at me.

[Aristeia]

Datisi town in my heart

[Aristeia]

VOTE: baltar

[Aristeia]

just say vpb is in your scum pt but you dont want to bus him because he's too funny

[Aristeia]

just say vpb is in your scum pt but you dont want to bus him because he's too funny

Wait where has VPB been funny

he is just a funny person in general.

[Aristeia]

I've been trying to be less serious in general and embrace the fun side of playing mafia. its not really something that depends on my alignment. I probably tend to be more serious when I actually am mafia as i feel some responsibility to not let my team down.

[Aristeia]

I personally find Baltar very entertaining.

[Aristeia]

I personally find Baltar very entertaining.

Disarming me by being sweet. I see I see.

<3

[Aristeia]

I think you're easily top 5 on this site dear.

[Aristeia]

stealing this from Dats

[Aristeia]

alisae is givine me seriously bad vibes and their posting is super sinister to me so

Which posts

it's mostly gut but i will try explaining my thoughts. generally aristeia is seems like they are trying to assert control over the town and be seen as a leading presence. there's been a lot of talk about their own playstyle, doling out advice. to me, it feels performative in a "look how much thought i'm putting into the game" kind of way.

i think 316 is an odd post dropping so many townreads so early, with their 3rd post of the game. feels like an attempt to hard establish themselves as a town player putting deep thought into the game. but really its just calling a bunch of people light townreads which is the easiest thing in the world to do for scum.

did you mean alisae but wrote my name instead?

[Aristeia]

I am town so all of my posts are town posts by definition

[Aristeia]

Taly feels really town

i feel the best about TRing Ali, Gimli & Taly

i think klick vpb & redff are all fine places to vote.

id tr firebringer but i dont want him to get mad at me.

the entirety of Ari's scumhunting everyone

VOTE: sircakes

[Aristeia]

your comments are not even remotely accurate and i realize ive been too lax recently in terms of being overly nice to people who push me for completely nonsensical reasons unrooted in reality.

[Aristeia]

im not even talking to you

[Aristeia]

Taly feels really town

i feel the best about TRing Ali, Gimli & Taly

i think klick vpb & redff are all fine places to vote.

id tr firebringer but i dont want him to get mad at me.

the entirety of Ari's scumhunting everyone

VOTE: sircakes

OMGUS? I kind of agree with the Cake. Your ISO is full of fluff posts and wagon votes with no substance. Your defense was you've wanted to play less serious Mafia, but will that help the town?

I like red's analysis of the game so far. This is the first I've seen "serious red" and it's enough so to move on for now

VOTE: Aristeia

are you voting me because you think I am not helpful or voting me because you think I am mafia?

[Aristeia]

because?

[Aristeia]

i dont think petas treatment of black is even scum indicative

lets go thru the possible worlds:

peta/black s/s;

he would just coach black in the scum pt.

peta/black s/t;

he has no incentive to make black look townier, peta doesnt really do that to lhfs.

[Aristeia]

like if peta is _____ and thinks black is being scummy but also is interested in site health and letting newbies get their feet wet without brutaly mauling them for scum slipping all over the place, the treatment makes a lot of sense. also he could simply be unsure of his read since theres no actual meta history and what he's picking up on could just be personality quirks or being used to playing mafia a certain way somewhere else.

i dont think he does it for style points and i dont think its very useful for pocketing.

[Aristeia]

alisae is givine me seriously bad vibes and their posting is super sinister to me so

Which posts

it's mostly gut but i will try explaining my thoughts. generally aristeia is seems like they are trying to assert control over the town and be seen as a leading presence. there's been a lot of talk about their own playstyle, doling out advice. to me, it feels performative in a "look how much thought i'm putting into the game" kind of way.

i think 316 is an odd post dropping so many townreads so early, with their 3rd post of the game. feels like an attempt to hard establish themselves as a town player putting deep thought into the game. but really its just calling a bunch of people light townreads which is the easiest thing in the world to do for scum.

this is okay, don't really see the case on Ari but for someone who hasn't played a mafia game in 8 yearsit's a decent thought

i think people were getting on redff's case too much for trolling/shitposting in the early game and i feel like there are big error bars there for a player who hasn't played in a long time

tbh i think regardless of his alignment he was probbly targeted early game by scum?? because someone playing like that either looks like an easy miselim or someone you dont want on your team

his case is not on me, it's on alisae, he just can't tell us apart because our avatars look the same to him

[Aristeia]

@VPB I kind of think you're a lot closer to Joker than Batman atp but it's still early.

[Aristeia]

you just need to make your voice deep and be extremely serious at all times

I believe in you.

[Aristeia]

cakes is mafia or a moron

[Aristeia]

i personally lean towards mafia because I'd feel bad about calling him a moron

[Aristeia]

its a p bad vote but i can see town her making it because she's never played with me before whereas cakes has played three games with me.

i think shes pretty easy to sort given enough time.

I liked her comment about petas team being screwed if she was on it. it felt jokey and selfaware in the moment and leaned a bit townie for her.

[Aristeia]

i personally lean towards mafia because I'd feel bad about calling him a moron

Don't feel bad about calling him a moron.
He is being dumb.

I think cakez town right now but he needs to step his game up

the reason i think this line of play at me comes from cakes scum is because in our last game together he saw scum klick hide in a ridiculous tunnel on me for the entirety of day one so he might think he can get away with making a similar play.

[Aristeia]

also a lot of what hes said feels overly performative in a snarky way that i think he does when hes scum trying to play up his confidence.

[Aristeia]

Now ur just personality reading him

there are differences between his personality while town/scum

[Aristeia]

maybe you are better at reading cakes than I am

we will see

[Aristeia]

i do somewhat remember previous games with Ari but she feels a lot different here then any of those past ones

in what way

use your words

[Aristeia]

i do somewhat remember previous games with Ari but she feels a lot different here then any of those past ones

in what way

use your words

I want to be very clear what I am asking.

1)Which previous games are you comparing to and how is the behavior different
2) Why is this behavior difference mean that I am likely to be mafia.

Because both thoughts in 1) and 2) need to go through your head to decide "ari is likely mafia because she is behaving differently"

so spell out exactly how you came to this conclusion.

[Aristeia]

cakes this should be memory recall since these thoughts went through your head already.

you should not need to pull up past games and start looking for differences

just a few sentences about your thoughts is fine. I am trying to verify you had any.

[Aristeia]

I think Ari is town, even if she did confuse me with the other cat

sorry !

[Aristeia]

i dont think i am being misread by cakes

i think cakes scum decided it would be fun to shitpush me because he saw klick do it and it kind of worked.

[Aristeia]

id be pretty surprised if furtive was mafia.

[Aristeia]

If this game turns out im defending scum Ari though.
I will never defend her again.

it does feel nice to be defended <3

[Aristeia]

If this game turns out im defending scum Ari though.
I will never defend her again.

Fool you once...

do you have a read on me yet vpb

[Aristeia]

explain the cakes read

[Aristeia]

I think the way Cakez responded to Ari's reaction to cakesz vote (873 and on) was believable. As in, cakez seems towny. But I dont think he's right

what do you mean?

[Aristeia]

IDK it feels like Cakez is targetting you because of a reason that makes sense to him and him only. That's my reasoning. I could also just not understand what he finds scummy about you lol

why can't he just be scum who is making up a read and pushing me to try to get townread via refuge in audacity?

for context, the last game I played as town also had sircakes in it- he replaced out fairly early so I'm not sure if he read the entire thing but during d1, I was tunneled by two slots; Klick who was scum and Aubrey who was town and I more or less thought they were town for "believing" that I was scum by virtue of their persistence and devotion to their reads which were utterly nonsensical and not really based in what was going on in the thread.

I don't see why he wouldn't think it would be a good idea to try the same kind of play hoping that I am similarly passive.

When I push back on him and ask him to explain his read - he doesn't really respond.

I don't really think his exaggerated belief in his scumread is townie - if anything it feels performative to me - like he is trying to overplay his confidence in it in order to be townread.

[Aristeia]

VOTE: aristeia this is the wagon we should be doing she literally has made 0 town posts in her entire ISO

Taly feels really town

i feel the best about TRing Ali, Gimli & Taly

i think klick vpb & redff are all fine places to vote.

id tr firebringer but i dont want him to get mad at me.

the entirety of Ari's scumhunting everyone

like this is just disgusting and I would be beyond disappointed if he actually wrote this garbage as town.

I don't think he's town at all. I think he's scum who decided to cough up some word vomit and can't back up any of his thoughts.

[Aristeia]

I think he decided to make up a scumread and just do over the top language to "sound more convincing"

I think he did it because he saw it work on me in a previous game and he thought it would be "fun" for him to do it to me this game.

I read his approach to me and I see not a single post made in good faith.

[Aristeia]

I think SirCakes is so far in his scum meta that he should be a slam dunk lim candidate today. I recognize I can be somewhat biased in this regard so I would appreciate if someone can reality check me and take a look at some of the meta-checks I've been reviewing to see if I'm simply confbiased on his slot.

These are the six games I skimmed - some of them I am already familiar with but I opened them up again to refresh my memory about what his scum game looks like:

Town Games:
Open 870
Open 866
Micro 1062
Mini 2260

Mafia Games:
Dance Party
Eurybia’s Curse


If you open up these isos, I suggest you have town on one side and mafia on the other side so you can see there are some marked differences between how he plays as town and how he plays as mafia.

When he is mafia he tends to use declarative statements far more and paint in broad sweeps - the reads come much faster because he's just making shit up. When he's town he goes read by read and you can actually see how he develops them one at a time from moments in time. Also excessive confidence is something that is present in his scum games but not in his town games - his town thought process involves nuance and he's not nearly as certain of things that he is saying.

[Aristeia]

If he's a wolf I genuinely have no idea what the guy is doing? Honestly to me it looks like someone who is struggling :/

I suggest you read the games I linked.

I don't expect a player that is "struggling" in d1 of a large to project that much confidence into the thread.

I would be fine with his play if he was simply taking it slow and getting his bearings but the exaggerated confidence has all the hallmarks of his scum game where he tries to pretend he's 50 feet tall.

[Aristeia]

2 Things

Ari fwiw I want to tr you but I can't find any good reason to and I also can't really find any good reason to wolfread you either so maybe that's just my incompetence. I also don't really know what you're capable of.
I do think that Cakez is literally wrong. A most notable instance of what appeared to be hunting would from your fire vote in RVS. It's not like impossible for that to be faked but that's at least 1 instance of something that has looked like hunting.
If he's a wolf I genuinely have no idea what the guy is doing? Honestly to me it looks like someone who is struggling :/

there's probably a mafia in the neighborhood

Based off of what?

just makes sense to have 1 mafia in a 3 person neighborhood from a setup perspective, am i wrong in thinking this?

Datisi is a mod who likes to subvert expectations.

[Aristeia]

Cakez and Fire's recent interaction was like

cakez: help me see the light on ari fire
Fire: No I don't really care to see eye to eye with you but she's done things that I think are townie
Cakez: Bruh like what
Fire: I'll go make a towncase
then he made a towncase and Cakez hasn't really responded to said towncase yet

so like ig said interaction is unfinished but was there anything like that that was able to be faked from cakez's side?

ok but why would Cakes!town who is confident that Ari is scum even think Firebringer would be better at reading me than he would?

I can see why scum!him would want to get out of this fight because he didn't get townread by me for shitpushing me like he thought he would.

[Aristeia]

I could also argue that struggling is like, overconfidence.
I tend to think fools think they know the answers but in reality they're actually clueless.

Idunno if this makes like sense?

I don't really think town cakes is the type of player who fakes confidence but if you have a game where cakes was town and actually confidently pushed someone then I'll be happy to look at it for a comparison.

[Aristeia]

I've played 2 games with him in the last month so no

[Aristeia]

His reads have been developing naturally. If you want something in particular, I think his read and treatment of me comes from town. I also just played with scum!Klick, and this doesn't feel like it.

I don't think Klick is that bad of a scum player that he would behave exactly the same way as he did in the last scum game that he just played with us.

I'd really like him to explain why he's townreading Cakez though.

[Aristeia]

for example look at his push on me from WF just a few weeks ago[we were both town]

Spoiler: Cakes pushing me in WF

even though it's wrong in terms of my alignment it at least

makes sense

and has nuanced thoughts about how scum!ari approaches a game and a comparison to a prior game that he saw me play as scum and similarities included.

Here he's just making shit up that's not even factual - it's like a turd sandwich that he thought would look good or something.

Like also if he got my alignment wrong in that game why does he suddenly think he can read me very accurately now?

[Aristeia]

why would you even consider moving your vote if you think I'm mafia

[Aristeia]

VOTE: morning tweet she is scummiest person so far

when you wrote this post - what was your thought process for why Tweet was the scummiest person so far.

[Aristeia]

you seem to be way easier to get pissed off and more defensive and I feel like you are giving less of a shit about scumhunting

well the last game we played together I got shitpushed by scum and almost got eliminated because I was pretty passive and didn't defend myself so why do you think I would decide to repeat that experience.

[Aristeia]

you're currently my top SR and at E-3 and I am actively pushing for your elimination so your line about "not giving a shit about scumhunting" seems incongruent with the reality of the situation.

[Aristeia]

no, you're angling yourself to vote on the wagon despite saying asri's vote is bad and i currently think cakez is probably a townie that scum are taking advantage of ari's ragetunnel to wagon

the funnier timeline would be if Baltar was telegraphing Cakes flips scum and is actually preparing to bus and try to mislim Asri tomm as "the bus vote"

I do hear what you are saying about me probably being more influenced by anger than reason atp and I do appreciate it.

[Aristeia]

who fucking knows?

The point you made was "Ari is mafia because she is behaving differently [from the last game I played with her since she is pushing back at me instead of just accepting my scumread]"

My point is that my play last game caused me to almost be eliminated on day 1 by mafia who was shitpushing me - my question is why you seem to expect me to

do the exact same thing that had a shitty outcome last time

[Aristeia]

tweet's opening felt super forced and ungenuine

110 and especially 187

if you think 110 was forced and ungeniune - how do you miss that I immediately push her on 110 in

the very next post

111.

Why do you say that I'm not scumhunting when my thoughts are literally the same as yours are purported to be at that point in time and I am interacting in real time to push the same point that you make?

[Aristeia]

I don't know i'm just stuck in a toxic mindset bc of how many bad times I've had I guess and this game hasn't changed that that's for sure

when was the last time you got mis-eliminated as town on d1 again?

[Aristeia]

I have trouble believing Cakes looked at 110, decided Tweetie was the most scummy slot for 110 being forced/ungeniune - making her his "scummiest slot in the game at the time" then less than a day later looks at my ISO and decides "there's literally no scumhunting there and not a SINGLE TOWN POST" when I literally had the exact same reaction he supposedly did to 110 and poked at tweet in real time over it to try to gauge a reaction.

I recognize I might be giving Cakes too much credit for how he plays town.

I'm going for a walk now and I'll answer your question later @Black.

[Aristeia]

Aristeia - forgive me if you've mentioned it, but do you have any scum reads other than Cakez and can you give me the tl;dr of them?

Baltar -

A lot of the issues I have with his play is that I don't think he's really interacting to sort people - it feels like he's just arguing with people to win arguments?

He's a journalist by trade so one of the things he does fairly well is to "frame" the issue in a way that's favorable to him for example:

709 1089 1090 1113 1156

I don't really think these posts are helping him sort people - it's just like he decided he was the referee of the argument and ruled that he was being extremely reasonable and like how could anyone disagree with him?

A lot of the questions he's asked are kind of surface level and I don't see how they really help him understand more about a player's alignment or thought process, it feels like interacting to interact rather than genuine curiosity/sorting.

Lastly his treatment of Klick as his lord and savior feels really weird and ??? to me like I don't really understand his treatment of Klick as his top townread and the rock that he leans on at all because like

1) why is klick his top townread? These are the only posts I found in his iso that really talk about the Klick TR and the only content is "because he outted the PT first", which imo isn't even like a great reason but the thing I don't like is how he first promises a towncase to Furtive telling him to back off then when Furtive asks for that towncase, he just handwaves and repeats the PT outting reason again. It feels like making a promise to get someone to fuck off and not really keeping it because you never really had a towncase or compelling reasons outside of "becuase he outted the hood" in the first place.

Klick is plus town for hood paranoia disclosure. Scum would be unlikely to do that this early in the game.

Can I get some votes here

VOTE: Klick

Nah. I can probably towncase Klick later if that's helpful for you, but like I said, I just think it's very unlikely they out the hood if scum. Willing to stand by that unless there is a compelling reason later not to.

Baltar, explain Klick townread.

Outing the hood like that out of paranoia is town 99/100 times. Klick stan

MistyX:


Reviewing her iso again she has pretty good moments here and there - I think the baltar callout was good but she didn't really go anywhere with it and I don't really understand her belief that I'm "struggling to interact with the game" or w/e.

I think she's fairly polarized in playstyle - she's much better at generating content as town than when she's scum. As the game goes on longer I think she'll contribute pretty organically and fluidly if she's town and be readable just off content and thread presence.

it would be funny if she was talking about herself when she said "wanna go here rn i think decent odds this is scum struggling to make serious content"

[Aristeia]

cakez voting me feels like town

really just overall genuine seeming read progression in that entire stretch of posts

can you help put some details to this read.

which cakes post feel very townie to you and why are they not likely to come from him as mafia?

[Aristeia]

and i think he way he pivoted into voting onto me felt like it was a genuine scumread that he wanted to pursue

why would he scumread you if you're one of the few people who voted with him on me and he hasn't even decided that I'm town yet.

[Aristeia]

I think furtive is just town with a wildly different view of the world.

[Aristeia]

maybe its the cat avi that looks like an angry alien that makes me think this but he just feels like he really believes in the things he's saying and he's annoyed we're not listening to him - i can feel the stare of disapproval.

[Aristeia]

1039 feels like town entitlement, 1078 is a good response imo, like 1121 too bc the frustration feels kinda genuine esp w/ the earlier concerns about backpedaling

and i think he way he pivoted into voting onto me felt like it was a genuine scumread that he wanted to pursue

1039 can very easily be "why the fuck is this happening to me again" because he got yeeted as scum d1 in the last large theme we played together.

1078 is not a good response - instead of trying to differentiate between the sheepers and figure out which of them could be scum he's just like "fuck it not interested" which makes no sense from a town perspective if you're being pushed to hard and the votes are flying at you quickly.

instead of having a mindset of "hey i'm being run up, let's try to figure out who is the scum in the people running me up for an easy mislim" he's saying man i need to figure out how to address their legitimate concerns with my play and see if i can get them to not vote me. then he says oh look none of them are asking me for anything so i guess i cant get them to stop voting me, which is p wild.

Lastly I'm not sure how you got he's genuinely scumreading you and he wants to pursue you, he just threw out three names, gimli, misty, asri, voted gimli at 1121 and switched his vote to you five minutes later after Firebringer told him he'd be down for a mistyX wagon. That's like basically any port in a storm - if anything he doesn't even care to differentiate between the strength of the "scumreads" which he doesn't bother to flesh out he's just going with whatever somebody told him to do in the moment.

[Aristeia]

ok
I'm facile
bet I'm right

betting you're right on a player being town doesn't mean shit dude, mathematically you're more likely to be right than not - her being town make your logic good you just used bad process and got lucky

like how people think they're good at finding townreads but they're not, they're just succeeding at something they were mathematically favored to win

Does anyone else get salty scum vibes from this (and peta's whole ISO)? He was NOT like this in Newbie 2101

peta is usually nicer in newbie games because he wants to be a good ambassador for the site.

I don't think he's been salty in general this game either.

[Aristeia]

what would peta even be salty about

[Aristeia]

what would peta even be salty about

That he isn't a cute anime girl

tru maybe if he embraced Alisae-ism he would come across as cute instead

[Aristeia]

@fire I do want to say if you're scum who is pocketing me by being all protective and nice to me that you're doing a very good job because I probably will never suspect you.

@datisi I hope you're taking notes <3

[Aristeia]

I've seen him get very salty so this is like jovial/wholesome in the peta-spectrum of moods.

[Aristeia]

he's like "lmfao" every other post. i've seen him go entire games without smiling.

[Aristeia]

what would peta even be salty about

Being Mafia and me (correctly) townreading Mistyxx for 'wrong' reasons

here's the thing

Peta as scum is very good at reading game state, influence, and where things are going and equity values.

Peta as scum would not care if you as town correctly read Misty as town because he would know that you don't really have a lot of influence in this town, you would not be able to protect misty if she became a lim target.

Also he's not even pushing Misty or trying to push Misty.

Mafia care about one or two eliminations at a time. They don't have time or energy to fight every correct townread everywhere at once, that's just not feasible or even remotely a good idea.

[Aristeia]

he's not trying to make your slot look worse he's townread you since post whatever

[Aristeia]

you're probably right that I feel more comfortable with him than I ought to be but that's just how I feel about reading him.

[Aristeia]

Baltar do you have a previous completed town game where you were so bent on "reasonable vs unreasonable", I can't remember off the top of my head sorry.

[Aristeia]

I don't understand your vote on me. I don't really think my play this game is different from pairs other than I'm trying not to get over sunk on reads like I did with Shea because that was bad.

You think I'm really being unreasonable by pushing asri to answer very basic questions? How else am I supposed to understand their alignment?

this is the post I'm refering to specifically - you are conflating "reasonableness with alignment" the presentation is that you are reasonable to pursue the line of play you did therefore his vote on you is unreasonable.

Overall from the posts I linked, I get the feeling you're more interested in presenting yourself as reasonable, I think you don't care as much about perception when you're actually town. I'm asking you about whether you've conflated "reasonableness with towniness" because it could just be that I'm misremembering how you think about alignment and you've actually done this as town in the past.

[Aristeia]

I think it's kind of bullshit that you're like "he's a journalist and he 'frames' things to his advantage" and then just link to posts and say I'm not sorting people. It feels very driven by assumptions that journalists are conniving and manipulate words or something, which is not what I'm doing at all in any of those posts.

btw I do apologize if you took offense to what I said about journalism and what you do. I've never actually read any of your work and I don't mean to say you are a dishonest person. I've just seen many games where you are pretty good at narrative manipulation and twisting things around and that's an important skill for scum to have. I think maybe this kind of crossed the line a bit and I'd like it if we could both forget I said that about your work. Sorry again for that.

[Aristeia]

aren't you literally doing that by voting for Misty

[Aristeia]

ali i think you should take a break from the thread if it stops being fun for you <3

I understand everything you're saying about Black and I've felt similarly but I don't really want to push at it because it could just be a playstyle thing - We were all newbs once.

[Aristeia]

*insert joke about how ari is still a newb*

young at heart

I'm pretty bad at learning tbh

[Aristeia]

he's never turned around on me - he said if the day ends rn he wants to vote for me or some other person i forgot by now

[Aristeia]

I'm really confused why town!Alisae would get this upset over a vote.

I don't think your framing of what occurred is accurate.

Your vote occurred here at 1345 - she didn't begin getting visibly upset until after you began to interact with her on pages 56-57.

Specifically I believe these posts were what triggered her reaction to you and I'm going to assume you honestly do not understand why she would get upset and are not just playing the victim here.

Did my vote bother you? I thought you were going to put the game on the back burner

^ this is taunting. also it's somewhat rude for you to ask her to catch up and then interrupt her in the middle of her catchup with a comment about "i thought you were going to put the game on the back burner"

That's scum behavior. You have 100+ posts in this game, pushing wagons and instigating, yet you "don't know what's going on" and you need to re-read?

^ this is ???. Alisae's last post on Sunday happened nearly 24 hours ago around 990 we are already 12 more pages into the game. She says she needs time to re-read and re-organize her thoughts. I don't think it is courteous or respectful to immediately accuse someone who is saying they are lost of "lying" instead of simply just letting them catch up and re-read.

post is a wolf post

My post was accurate. You have all this time to post and no time to read? I'm not buying it

Her posting happened prior to 10pm on Sunday - she did not post for 22 hours.

Her making 94 posts prior to 10pm on Sunday is not evidence that she had time to read what happened between her last post and tonight.

[Aristeia]

You do make a good point about

why

Alisae would get upset at you in the way that she did.

I guess on one level it logically doesn't make sense for Alisae!town who believes you are scum engaging in a shitpush to be triggered by you acting in this manner towards her because it's unlikely to flip her slot - ali!scum tilting that you are bad!town who is pushing townies and caught her for the wrong reasons is possible but I think like she's more likely to just laugh at you in the scum PT if you're town pushing townies.

I think Ali is a pretty emotional player so I can see that side of her being enraged at some of the comments you made regardless of her alignment.

I think trying to read into emotional responses is very hard unless you know the person pretty well and even then I feel like I still get emotional reads wrong a fair number of times. I don't think it's going to be useful for getting an accurate read and it's somewhat unpleasant to talk about.

[Aristeia]

I remembered him being somewhat unimpressive when he repped in during WF and nothing he's done has really stuck in my head.

pulling up the iso now mmm

I don't see anything egregious? 781 is ok I guess there's some nuance to the read - I guess you can say there's a disconnect in that he was just complaining in 779 about vanity wagons and then he goes and starts one on Taly that is unlikely to do anything since Taly is thread afk

I liked 796, I get the feeling he actually cares about the questions he's asking?

1197 is p good it feels p well thought out. 1301 is kinda icky in that it misses the entire context of the conversation. I think kind of townlean this? I don't feel very confident about this read.

[Aristeia]

I remembered him being somewhat unimpressive when he repped in during WF and nothing he's done has really stuck in my head.

He was in WF for all of 12 hours before it ended, ended up voting scum & made a point to interact with multiple people

I'll re-read what he did in WF then

[Aristeia]

ok yea he looks a lot townier in WF >_>

[Aristeia]

I'd be willing to vote for him. I'm not sure how applicable the meta comparison is between replacing in and d1 of a large though its pretty shruggy.

[Aristeia]

they can both be scum? i dont see why it has to be one or the other. I am not losing a Datisi game to assumptions about Moderator meta.

[Aristeia]

maybe this is a weird way of me trying to just figure out which fos is stronger I assume the stronger fos is cakez

I'm unsure - which is somewhat surprising to me - I don't really have a good comparison method for accuracy or certainty right now.

I feel more strongly about Cakes but I recognize my emotions can make me less accurate there because bias.

[Aristeia]

no my issue was your townread lacked substance behind it, you told furtiveglance you had a towncase beyond just the one point about outting the hood and offered to make it for him, then when he asked you for it you basically just repeated the outting the hood comment again. It makes me think you didn't have a towncase to begin with.

[Aristeia]

its funny because gimlis view of the cakes wagon and cakes view of his own wagon is completely different and he hasnt figured out why this is when the answer is sort of obvious.

[Aristeia]

Did my vote bother you? I thought you were going to put the game on the back burner

what were you hoping to acheive by making this post?

what was its goal?

[Aristeia]

which post were you shocked by ?

[Aristeia]

Aristeia - have you played with town!Alisae a lot? Is this behavior you recognize from her?

Whatcha thinking Ari?

I have seen her be emotional as both alignments - its not something I use to read her.

[Aristeia]

which post were you shocked by ?

Her moving me from towncore to likely wolf in the span of a couple minutes

I don't understand why this is shocking to you.

[Aristeia]

if it's wolf!ali repositioning herself to counter your push by shading/discrediting you as scum as you allege, wouldn't it be expected almost?

[Aristeia]

because I don't understand the point of your post and it conflicts with your version of events later where you say you didn't mean to upset her and you treated her with respect. I'm trying to understand how this is "respectful" in your POV.

"Did my vote bother you? I thought you were going to put the game on the back burner"

feels very antagonistic to me and I don't think it fits with your stated intentions at that point in time.

[Aristeia]

It didn't feel like townie progression to me. Idk what else to tell you.

Yes my point is that it shouldn't shock you if someone you are accusing of being wolf does something that is not townie because that's what wolves are supposed to do?

[Aristeia]

ok but where are the personal attacks prior to 1379?

I've reread that section and I don't really see how she's shitting on you.

1373 917pm: Ali responds to your request for reads by putting you in her towncore with a large number of other names, she states how she feels about others as well. It feels like she's just dumping where everyone is in her mind onto the page. She states she's disinterested in the game and not motivated but she's also promising to be committed to playing

1374 918pm: she states she's sort of skimming and not deep reading, she states she's putting this game on the "back burner" because when she finds the motivation she'll really deepread everything.

1376 923pm: she says she wants to take black out of towncore, says maybe black is town but the gameplay could be wolf because the votes are pretty bad ig - i dunno.

1377 925pm: she states black throws around omgus and votes people who do that.

1378 925pm: she states if she voted black right now he would probly turbo tunnel me because omgus.

1379 928pm: Black: "Did my vote bother you? I thought you were going to put the game on the back burner"


like the most insulting thing you could maybe squint at is 1377/1378 which is her saying you like to use omgus a lot?

[Aristeia]

I need to get some rest now. This progression is still the scummiest thing I've seen in this game

I was in your towncore a few minutes ago > you move me to just town > you question my votes and phrasing > you threaten to vote for me? > you say I'm playing like a wolf > you get upset and question my ability to play mafia...

the thing about this is you're saying Alisae is being opportunistic in the way she is treating your slot and it depends on how you are treating her slot. As in she's townreading you but once you turned on her, she flipped her townread and is pushing you.

However she never expressed a townread on you prior to 1373. Just flipping through her iso the only "read" if you can call it that on you is from 554 which is not a townread at all.

It seems much simpler for ali!scum to re-read first, decide she wants to keep you outside of her townread/core section and then enter the thread that way and push you or ignore you, rather than haphazardly placing you inside and then progressing down to wolf read.

you could say she's lost track of where you are in her reads because she has fake reads and misplaced you into towncore then began faking a progression - but that begs the question that if her reads are fake why didn't she just start off with you in the scumlean section? It feels much cleaner and less performative and I think would be preferable for her.

[Aristeia]

I've already explained my thoughts about our interaction in this post. It's fine if you don't see it as her being rude to me. That's the way I see it

which comment from her prior to 1379 did you see as rude/personal?

[Aristeia]

I do agree she was rude to you

It's fine if you don't see it as her being rude to me.

I do agree that she was needlessly rude to you and crossed the line multiple times later in the exchange and raged pretty hard. I hope it doesn't happen again. The issue I have is that I suspect you incited her intentionally because I can't really understand how the comments you made are not meant to incite. I hope I'm wrong because it seems kind of icky for you to do that. I'm trying to understand your mindset about why you did what you did.

I think Alisae did what she did because she was angry and pissed off - this is unfortunately not useful for reading Ali because I've seen her do this as both alignments - I've even seen her do this as scum to another scumbuddy. It's not really useful for gauging either of your alignments.

[Aristeia]

scum gimli trying to rescue scum cakes from his wagon of townies and cakes slapping him away would be the best timeline pls datisi make it happen

[Aristeia]

which comment from her prior to 1379 did you see as rude/personal?

Can we not? This interaction last night took a lot out of me and I'm not sure why you feel the need to tunnel on it and relive it. Why is this all you can think about? Do you think I'm scum? Please make a case if you do. I'm tired of talking about Alisae being rude to me

I am asking you because I don't know what your alignment is. I've been thinking about other things too, it just happens this was something that stuck in my mind because it's somewhat prominent.

We don't have to talk about this. I'll leave it alone.

[Aristeia]

GIMLI [2]: SirCakez, redFF

it is pretty wild he called redff's list trash and now they're voting for White Dwarf Knight Gimli together

this game does have the best storylines

[Aristeia]

imagine if they all were scum together. it'd be pretty funny

[Aristeia]

it sort of makes sense from town!Gimli getting betrayed by town!Cakez too

its way funnier if it's scum!gimli getting betrayed by scum!cakez

[Aristeia]

i feel bad for misty if she's mafia with cakes

[Aristeia]

I hope you feel better tomorrow Cakes.

I enjoy playing with you and you are a joy to be around and I hope you feel better about yourself.

It's just a game and if I'm reading you incorrectly I would say it's just my fault.

[Aristeia]

UNVOTE:

I've read the cakes wall a few times and I don't think it's really significantly AI. If anything it might even lean a bit scum indicative because I think he would be more frustrated to be voted out on D1 again as scum so soon after getting yeeted on d1 as scum earlier in a previous game. I recognize that my own bias here might be coloring this view.

I still think Cakes is mafia but even if he is, the upset feelings and frustrations he has are real and I don't feel great about causing him this kind of emotional duress. Mafia is just a game and I want him to have fun here.

I might re-vote you by the end of the day if I find nothing better to do and I hope you feel better about playing the game later.

[Aristeia]

i mean he's been misyeeted a fair amount as town too

yea i know - I just feel that he would be more upset at being yeeted as scum d1 than as town because the pressure is different when you're mafia. Also in a role madness game, he could have an important scum role and then it would be even more added pressure.

[Aristeia]

you think he is even more likely to be scum and you're saying you'll vote him again so this unvote is nothing, you're not making cakez feel any better lol

I'm willing to be convinced to vote elsewhere. I don't think there's really anything I can do to make him feel better except giving him some space like he wants.

[Aristeia]

i mean he's been misyeeted a fair amount as town too

yea i know - I just feel that he would be more upset at being yeeted as scum d1 than as town because the pressure is different when you're mafia. Also in a role madness game, he could have an important scum role and then it would be even more added pressure.

i think cakez is like most players psychologically in that he feels significantly worse about getting voted out when his role card says he is innocent and he has been honest only to have others turn it against him

I would be happy to defer to your read and let you sort his alignment.

[Aristeia]

VOTE: Dan

[Aristeia]

Hi Fire I am glad to see you again

[Aristeia]

i'd save csf out of those three

[Aristeia]

furtive if you're going to accuse Peta of being scum, I think it would be funnier if you did it Asri style and called him "Peta of the Pan" every time

for example instead of saying:

is that almost a scumclaim^
I think it is

You would say:

This one thinks that is almost a scumclaim from Peta of the Pan.

[Aristeia]

I don't know I think I'll stick to my own style

Are you townreading him? If so, why? 'I'm better at scum than this'?

he just feels p townie to me

I don't think I'm like going to catch scum!him right off the bat but a lot of the things he's done feels like he's trying to bridge gaps between people and tamp down on conflicts.

I don't mean that when he's scum he's like some kind of mustache twirling villain trying to sow chaos and destruction but I just kind of feel his intentions are good and his actions are like p pro-town.

What's the most compelling reason you think he's mafia?

[Aristeia]

I don't know I think I'll stick to my own style

Are you townreading him? If so, why? 'I'm better at scum than this'?

he just feels p townie to me

I don't think I'm like going to catch scum!him right off the bat but a lot of the things he's done feels like he's trying to bridge gaps between people and tamp down on conflicts.

I don't mean that when he's scum he's like some kind of mustache twirling villain trying to sow chaos and destruction but I just kind of feel his intentions are good and his actions are like p pro-town.

What's the most compelling reason you think he's mafia?

clears throat

errythang

Just the scumread on Baltar looked calculated and overconfident, and that's been his main scumread as I recall

1. hes been doing a lot more than just poking at Baltar

2. I kind of had a similar read on Baltar.

[Aristeia]

possibly the most boring of all monarchs

[Aristeia]

it's a cunning trap by our brilliant leader

[Aristeia]

THE ONLY THING I CAN IMAGINE IS YOU WANT MORE SO YOU CAN BURY HIM WITH IT
THAT IS THE ONLY THING I CAN IMAGINE.

I don't think this is a goodwill attempt at even suggesting you don't have enough for a cakez read.
So if you come in and say "i want to see if im wrong". I call bullshit to the nth degree.

this is really mean to Cakes

[Aristeia]

you're suggesting that not only is Cakes town but he is incapable of producing content that would make anyone townread him

[Aristeia]

can you explain the cakes townread I am clueless sorry

[Aristeia]

I am sorry I pissed you off.

[Aristeia]

I apologize for being unfun and rude.
I will be more fun tomorrow.

It's fine. A king has to be forceful sometimes.

[Aristeia]

its actually hard to take half of his posts seriously with his avatar tbh.

I think he's adoorbs

[Aristeia]

I like the cat tho

[Aristeia]

i think its just badly done distancing and shea/redfire r both mafia because

1. theres no point to defending black its better to sort shea by letting him carry out the interrogation. i dont think directly going at shea is very useful for sorting him.

2. shea is too accomodative towards fire - i think if hes town he is more combative rather than patient.


also i am probably wrong but I like poking fun at redfire because he is <3

[Aristeia]

fwiw i think you are a v nice person shea

[Aristeia]

10% is just trusting Ari got a good grasp at him.

terrible idea tbh

I haven't played against scum!peta in years

[Aristeia]

Top Ten Anime Series I watched in 2022 sorted by how much I liked them:

Spoiler: 1

Spoiler: 2

Spoiler: 3

Spoiler: 4

Spoiler: 5

Spoiler: 6

Spoiler: 7

Spoiler: 8

Spoiler: 9

Spoiler: 10

[Aristeia]

I will not be sharing with Ari and Fireisred because they were mean to me. Anyone else can have a slice.

[Aristeia]

Dan if you think you are flipping today can you give a few thoughts about each slot in the game?

[Aristeia]

also you should claim.

[Aristeia]

what does a jailor do

[Aristeia]

so why couldnt you have just protected peta from a nightkill then

[Aristeia]

its not a 1v1 situation

they can both be town

[Aristeia]

furtiveglance is not a person who believes in restraint

[Aristeia]

Why is the following not possible:
You did the kill and activated a doublevote last night

multi tasking is not on by default

[Aristeia]

hi Cakes,

why didn't you consider claiming your role before you ATE'd and said its fine if people want to kill you?

[Aristeia]

ok but you said "just kill me"

which seems to skip the "here's what I am" part

[Aristeia]

Firebringer dear is it ok for me to ask Cakes to claim without calling him scum because I dunno what kind of role he could have where he says something like.

"just kill me I don't want to play this game anymore and I don't want to give this slot to some poor fucker it's already doomed"

cuz I kind of think of he had a useful role he wouldn't say something like this?

[Aristeia]

but you are the king

[Aristeia]

I don't trust Alisae tbh

[Aristeia]

i trust alisae as much as you right now, does that mean anything

I wish I was half as wise as you

[Aristeia]

I don't trust Alisae tbh

what gives

I got bad vibes off you saying that peta v furtive was a 1v1.

[Aristeia]

like furtive is town regardless of what peta is, I just have a hard time seeing how any1 can really scumread furtive believing he's caught scum peta red handed and with a flipped scum alien already.

[Aristeia]

is that it?

you saying that voting lycanfire was a "complete shot in the dark" and repeating it felt weird in 360 and 568

also the way you questioned the claim being gated(x3) -> hammer felt like scum finding an excuse to hop on with a bushammer.

I don't feel strongly about scumreading you - I just don't really trust you/townread you atm.

[Aristeia]

what's your villager block rn?

[Aristeia]

ok why is Cakez town?

[Aristeia]

I would like Cakes to claim because there's a very narrow range of roles that would say something like:

"just kill me I don't want to play this game anymore and I don't want to give this slot to some poor fucker it's already doomed"

and none of them would really be hurt by claiming early.

[Aristeia]

like if he's a useful town role, I don't think he says just kill me

and if he's not a useful town role, why not just claim so we can evaluate his mindset?

[Aristeia]

cakez/lycan both being scum would explain the quiet hood

[Aristeia]

I would like Cakes to claim because there's a very narrow range of roles that would say something like:

"just kill me I don't want to play this game anymore and I don't want to give this slot to some poor fucker it's already doomed"

and none of them would really be hurt by claiming early.

I get what you're putting down. I see your point.
I could easily see myself flip flopping back onto cakez if literally ALL of Asri, RedFF, and Gimli flipped villager. I think that's just unlikely though.

I don't think there is a difference between having cakez claim privately to klick and getting klick's imput in the matter vs doing it in thread other than if cakez is town the 2nd is free information for wolves.

If cakes is town then his role is so useless that he said we should just kill him

and the wolves know this information already

nailing down specifically which role he is does not give the wolves any additional information

[Aristeia]

and like if cakes is just newb town who doesnt understand how his role is meant to be useful, then letting us all know what the role is can only HELP us.

[Aristeia]

its one thing I remembered being off when looking at Dan's iso

Dan didn't claim until he got yelled at to claim despite his role being very powerful.

I don't think town with such a powerful role slowroll the claim like Dan did.

and then I remembered how Cakes also seemed to forget about claiming.

Hence why I want a claim from him now.

[Aristeia]

ActionDan is still a thing if people want to go there. Did anyone get towny vibes from his first post?

totally unrelated post but i want this to get in your mentions - what do your reads look like currently?

Town

Aristeia, furtiveglance, Klick, Morning Tweet
Firebringer, petapan, Alisae, Mistyx, redFF, Asri Teroka, Gimli
VP Baltar, Taly*, Black
SirCakez, ActionDan

Scum

the only difference is I have misty lower and fireisredsir(taly) higher.

[Aristeia]

I guess Shea can be higher too

[Aristeia]

actually should look like this:

Town

CSF, Firebringer, furtiveglance, Morning Tweet Klick,
petapan, Alisae, redFF, Asri Teroka, Gimli

thestatusquo, fireisredsir,

MistyX, Black
SirCakez, ActionDan

Scum

[Aristeia]

I keep thinking it'd be amusing if it was a 3 scum hood because Datisi does love his memes

[Aristeia]

I guess the reason why I think asri is townie and misty is scummy is because I can see what Asri is trying to do and I can't understand what Misty is trying to do.

[Aristeia]

Asri is trying to kill Cakez

[Aristeia]

a tunneled villager can also not care

[Aristeia]

I know Asri can be scum trying to tunnel kill town Cakez

but we literally dont know what Cakez alignment is

[Aristeia]

thats why I am trying to sort his alignment by asking him to claim

[Aristeia]

asri is tunneled on cakez

i am tunneled on cakez

i know i am a villager

why would i then not understand asri's pov?