Open 873: PYP: Anime Music & Memes - Game Over!

[unwnd]

I know LLD sort of asked it but what's the uh

Reason you're withholding your scumread

You think it will interrupt what's going on now?

[petapan]

I'd just like a inkling of why you think notty's logic has no credibility here

that i can do

i addressed this before, but he thinks blindly me having strong confidence in a read = scum, when i push hard all the time as town too

i think i've elaborated plenty on the fact that i don't think marci has been authentic in her responses, she isn't solving. her kingtroll read reeked and made no sense, and had all the hallmarks of scum trying to white knight an easy misyeet. my initial read of her being combative in response to pressure was off because i think in review of the town games she was a lot more acidic and upset that people were misreading her where here there was some light sass but no real righteousness behind it

his rebuttal is that she faked solving more in this scum games which i find to be wholly unconvincing. he's since resorted to blindly headhunting and tunneling illogically rather than forming any sort of coherent or logical argument. i think him getting stubborn and digging in his heels on a bad stance makes him equivalent to a 4th wolf but he's likely to see any challenge at all as an attempt to undermine him and use it as an excuse to double down. i don't even know where the overprotectiveness of a player who is barely contributing comes from, i think kingtroll had honestly showed moe intention to gamesolve.


i think it's not ~impossible i'm misfiring on town-marci who is simply playing inexplicably badly but i feel reasonably secure in the people i'm townreading at this moment and am okay to compromise to other suspects but i need some semblance of rational argument as to who to flip

[Ydrasse]

I know LLD sort of asked it but what's the uh

Reason you're withholding your scumread

You think it will interrupt what's going on now?

it’s not Good to say it right now
i can’t specify

[unwnd]

I'd just like a inkling of why you think notty's logic has no credibility here

that i can do

i addressed this before, but he thinks blindly me having strong confidence in a read = scum, when i push hard all the time as town too

i think i've elaborated plenty on the fact that i don't think marci has been authentic in her responses, she isn't solving. her kingtroll read reeked and made no sense, and had all the hallmarks of scum trying to white knight an easy misyeet. my initial read of her being combative in response to pressure was off because i think in review of the town games she was a lot more acidic and upset that people were misreading her where here there was some light sass but no real righteousness behind it

his rebuttal is that she faked solving more in this scum games which i find to be wholly unconvincing. he's since resorted to blindly headhunting and tunneling illogically rather than forming any sort of coherent or logical argument. i think him getting stubborn and digging in his heels on a bad stance makes him equivalent to a 4th wolf but he's likely to see any challenge at all as an attempt to undermine him and use it as an excuse to double down. i don't even know where the overprotectiveness of a player who is barely contributing comes from, i think kingtroll had honestly showed moe intention to gamesolve.


i think it's not ~impossible i'm misfiring on town-marci who is simply playing inexplicably badly but i feel reasonably secure in the people i'm townreading at this moment and am okay to compromise to other suspects but i need some semblance of rational argument as to who to flip

You had a light reprieve where you thought marci was maybe town, which sticks out in my memory

It's not that I personally hold you where I think 'well you had that small moment yet you're speaking so audaciously about marci being scum' it's just like an anomaly

When did you decide that 'no I'm actually right' in that regard? Or what was that anomaly

[Lukewarm]

If I were a cop, I targeted Ceph and he was town :/

[Lukewarm]

I decided to fleshing out my thoughts on my readslist a bit more over the night, but skipped the people i feel like I have talked a bit more about. So I skipped Unwnd, Notty, Marci, and STD

[Lukewarm]

Subject: Open 873: PYP: Anime Music & Memes - Day Two

I decided to stare at the PL for a min. I am approximately at

Town:
Unwnd, Notty, Marci

Lady Lambdadelta, Taly*,

ceph

---

Shades of Null:

Ceph

, GreyIce, Ydra
Bell
Peta, Dunn

---

Scum:
KingTroll
STD

*I think that Taly's response to my last questions might influence their tier, up or down, so I kinda need to see their answer first

Same line is unsorted, but differing lines are a distinction.

Okay

LLD

- I was very paranoid of LLD for the first half of the day, but there were a series of posts that made me think town.
-1039 - This was a post that I found myself nodding along to basically everything that was said here, which inherently makes me think town. It is also not a post I think that she really needs to make if she is scum, because GreyIce's low activity could make him a potential miselim this game, which she should not be making a fairly convincing case to shoot that down. And if she were scum WITH GI, I don't know that she would tie herself so strongly to him this way, it is my understanding that LLD is a fairly happy to bus as needed, not to prop up a partner this way?

1177 - while I disagree with her Marci scum read, I liked the way that LLD went about this interaction. She does not seem to be trying to bury Marci, but instead, appears to have a level of handing out an olive brach to her here, that I don't think that scum would be inclined to put.

And then 1736 - I think that scum, seeing Ydra put unclaimed early draft slot at E-1 unannounced, would quietly hope that someone would accidentally hammer. Both to get a likely PR out of the game, and for the fall back to go onto Ydra for not announcing the E-1 or the person who hammered. Seems to me that she would have had zero blow back for just... not making this post.

Taly

- I think that my read here is a bit stale. That tierlist was made before I actually went through her iso, and was just more vibes and 1195 -- but actually going through this iso, there seems to be a bit less follow up with all of the braches that they are putting out then I remembered. I'd probably slid her back down into null after looking at her iso.

I... am getting tired, and so from here on, I'm not actually opening up isos. Just thoughts. Anyways

Ceph

His approach to PR discussion seemed very pro town
Same thoughts on the tracker in 1622
And then

1752

was an very townie post imo. Both in dealing with the cop hypo and dealing with the tracker, and also the self-referential line "fwiw i do not think i would have made this post if i were scum" seems like something that actual scum would shy away from saying out loud. They want us to see that post, and come to that conclusion.

GreyIce

- is largely here in the step above null because of the LLD case which I agreed with

Ydra

- Gonna be real with you, if you ask me why ydra is here instead of inside of true null, it would be hard to give an answer that feels all that satisfactory to myself, because it is largely the vibes. I have encountered Ydra on this vibe length a couple times, and she was town in both. Which makes me want to say she is more likely town, but it is hard to know how Scum Ydra in the same head space would vibrate, so it is harder to put her higher then this too.

Bell

- He is actually being propped up by the fact that everyone that I think is town is saying that he is obviously town. I was leaning scum for most of the day because of his lack of think of as Bell's attempts as scum hunting. His focus was too narrow, and he was not out ruffling feathers across the player list. At the time, Notty seemed to agree with me. But then suddenly Notty and unwnd started saying he was obviously town, and I felt like I must have missed something during that phase of the day when I was largely in catch up mode. I need to actually do an iso of him for real when I get a chance.

Peta

- I was having a hard time getting a read on Peta, but I did not like the way that he seemed unwilling to let the Marci elim go, and then his "we should not kill KT, because newbie" but then also giving people the go ahead to do that anyways felt kinda performative. idk, its a weak read.

Dunn

Dunn is never the easiest to read, I kinda got the heebiejeebies with him entering into the game with his first post being a town read on me, and then popping up repeatedly to reiterate it. Which, then combined with this post

Are you aware that I had the 3rd least posts in the game when you voted for me?

I think it's time you defined what "doing stuff" entails, and how you think that makes me mafia this game.

Which felt like he might was setting up STD to say that he was not active and therefore scum, specifically to get me to think he is town because a while back I made a spread sheet of 10+ games of Dunn that compared his day 1 activity vs his alignment to disprove the repeated arguments that him being inactive made him scum.

Those two things combined have me a little worried that he is trying to make me think that he isactively town.

SKipping KT for obvious reason

[Lukewarm]

That being said. Sorry :/

[Dunnstral]

You think I'm mafia because I might have been doing something that I never did

[unwnd]

Got 3 hours of sleep last night

Should try and refresh my mind instead of just stubbornly forcing myself to participate

bbl

[Lukewarm]

You think I'm mafia because I might have been doing something that I never did

I have you in lower half of null in that reads list. Not scum. I did not have a strong read on you one way or the other, but was paranoid about that in particular

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Got 3 hours of sleep last night

Should try and refresh my mind instead of just stubbornly forcing myself to participate

bbl

Rest well. I'm taking a bath right now. Living on the edge with my phone above the water.

I need to feel aliveeeee

[petapan]

I suppose hypocrisy in and of itself isn’t a scumtell necessarily, but it felt like he wanted to play opposition while the wagon reached critical mass but then changed his tune when he realized he was about to lose out on a miselim.

Like, his scum pool has 4 REALLY EASY pushes and lukewarm, for a scummy readslist? I feel like we’ve all made comments about how this game is going to be super difficult and peta himself has mentioned reading back and reviewing to see who has scum intent and this is truly the best he can come up with?

His defense of KT yesterday on the premise of “marci tmi” both tries to white knight for towncred and set up his day 2 push ahead of time.

The actual post if summary isn't enough

i think i actively missed that post because i was eating lunch and clearly the game is moving too fast for me


i again reiterate that he's living in a presupposition that "this is what scum could be doing" = "this is what is happening" which is logically fallacious

i said it at the time but i was actively working to discourage suspicion on marci only to then flip my view, which is gamethrowingly bad play if town


i strongly contest the notion that POE is "really easy" given the staggering fucking difficulty it is taking to kill any of them

but beyond that what the fuck is the expectation? who is he trying to argue i'm misclearing? i have no fucking idea. the 'difficult' pushes are also mostly accepted as town, other than dunn, who is my cop innocent, i don't manufacture reads to please and show i'm hitting hrd targets, that's maybe something i'd be conscientous of moreso as scum but my worldview has to be informed by where my reads take me. i'm not going to tunnel lld because 'the game has to be hard', i need evidence and so far nothing actually points me to her, i don't even know what about that pool he's trying to dispute

[Dunnstral]

which is gamethrowingly bad play if town

It's a good thing I've got an inno on you or I'd be second guessing this

[Dunnstral]

From where I'm standing Luke definitely needs to further refine his reads

[Dunnstral]

But voting for Save The Dragons today is an acceptable compromise

[Lady Lambdadelta]

From where I'm standing Luke definitely needs to further refine his reads

Because he has you on the null side of scum and thinks there is equity for worlds where you might be doing a nefarious thing?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like tell me Dunn. What part of Lukes reads that arent a read on you needs refining?

[petapan]

You had a light reprieve where you thought marci was maybe town, which sticks out in my memory

It's not that I personally hold you where I think 'well you had that small moment yet you're speaking so audaciously about marci being scum' it's just like an anomaly

When did you decide that 'no I'm actually right' in that regard? Or what was that anomaly

the reprieve was specifically when she came in with a grouchy response to pressure and it eminded me of her townplay

i even actively worked to dissuade notscience of his view by linking recent games as evidence only to have him come back doubtng it still and ask me to put it into words only for me to review it and decide that i was in the wrong. that was like the most moment in this game he felt actually willing to have a rational discussion.

by the point i reverse my view, the wagon had already started to dissipate. again, this is borderline nonsensical play as scum because i'd have actively worked to make my life harder to get a mis-elim. the sense that i even could performatively distance from it is pretty bizarre given i started the wagon in the first place and would probably take some culpability even if wrong. but in general as scum while i might distance myself from a mis-elimination that seems inevitable i don't go out of my way to make it harder to push through.

i also think as scum here i wouldn't really care about forcing through a marci kill! she literally isn't playing the game and so poses no threat via dayplay while tracker is a pretty bad PR tha isn't likely to produce a guilty. i can easily backburner her and then force a mis-elim through on ELO when she hasn't turned up any results or done anything literally all game.

conversely as town i have some degree of urgency because giving scum a free pass for multiple day phases off a claim can be spectacularly damaging to the game because it increases the likelihood you pursue false leads and scum are going to kill off useful players in the meantime making life harder for whoever is left


further, the idea that i REALLY needed to mis-elim marci as scum makes no sense when clearly town was sleepwalking into the kingtroll yeet so like what the fuck am i so pressed about

[petapan]

which is gamethrowingly bad play if town

It's a good thing I've got an inno on you or I'd be second guessing this

*gamethrowingly bad play if scum

dunno how that slipped my mind in writing but it did

[Ydrasse]

Freud wide awake

[petapan]

if i had to weigh in on the StD/Luke dichotomy i'd be actively more inclined to flip luke

[Dunnstral]

One of his scumreads flipped town

It's not me or Peta

At least two people are getting too much credit or slipping through his focus

That's not to say I have three strong reads either

For what It's worth @Lukewarm I've got Bell as sort of null. Not where I'd push but I'm not strong townreading them
I still think Ydrasse is town, and Lukewarm, LLD, Unwnd, Peta, and to a lesser extent notscience and GreyIce

I guess that leaves Bell and also Taly in the null could be mafia category. And Save the Dragons at the bottom.

[Ydrasse]

glad to be towny on this energy budget

[petapan]

Freud wide awake

Spoiler: