Mini Normal 2288: Reposting Same Picture As Flavor Are Lame

[geraintm]

Did geraintm make the kill last night?

nope, but i can understand why you of all people would think that.

This was me saying to herta that I knew he had watched me and seen that I had left my house in.

[geraintm]

I don't have much time at the weekend, but are people saying my claim is wrong, or you think I am scum despite it?

[Shirou]

I at no point thought he got no movement on me. I knew he would have, hence me saying early day 2 when he thought I could be scum that I knew why he would think that.

claims
HErta
- motion detector
n1 geraintm no movement
n2 kowabunga no movement

it could be a typo though, sure

[Shirou]

However, you took a really long time to full claim and say your targets:

(notice how his first post replying the massclaim is by 10:05 am and he only fullclaims with targets 2 hours later)

i'd rather those who haven't said they have roles to go first so they can be caught out in any missteps with their claims.

I was going to give him time to answer my questions.

It felt like they had given up and we weren't going to get anything useful out of them today, and the weirdness of the self hammer offer was not good, there was nothing they could have said that wouldn't have resulted in their elimination today so I was happy to get it over with.

See you tomorrow

i went to see Herta last night, bold was the crumb

I was going to give him time to answer my questions.

It felt like they had given up and we weren't going to get anything useful out of them today, and the weirdness of the self hammer offer was not good, there was nothing they could have said that wouldn't have resulted in their elimination today so I was happy to get it over with.

See you tomorrow

i went to see Herta last night, bold was the crumb

i want your full role sir.

Town Announcing Compulsive Voyeur

But mostly important, I feel like

he only fullclaims

with confidence

after Herta reveals what their role is and Geraintm knows what kind of result Herta had on him

:

I'm the motion detector. Geraintm night 1 and there was movement. Kowabungah Night 2 no movement

I targetted gryff night 1
herta night 2

there were no actions targeted on either

[Shirou]

I believe there's one additional thing in favor of scum!Geraint aside from the fact he at some point assumed you got no movement on him and then changed it:

Voyeur is the role that makes the most sense to be scum here in my opinion. With so many Loud roles, it's easy to get a sense of who visited who from dayplay, so for example:

If a voyeur had targeted me at night 1, and assuming Fire is telling the truth, by N2 they should know that Fire is a investigate PR as long as I said a simply "Fire visited me" or so commentary. It's relatively easy to hunt PRs here with voyeur due to announcing/loud modifiers.

I at no point thought he got no movement on me. I knew he would have, hence me saying early day 2 when he thought I could be scum that I knew why he would think that.

I don't understand how you thought it made sense for him to think you're scum either if you targeted Gryff. You couldn't know he was a motion detector, so out of all possibilities like tracker and etc, I don't see how someone that visited the person that wasn't nightkilled would think it made "sense" for someone that targeted him to think they're scum

[Shirou]

I don’t think I got to my point, I think it’s dumb to divide this into PR/ not PR, like certain people have just been significantly scummier than others, and if your slot hasn’t done anything all game, you’re in the scum pool too, until you seem towny

I'll put it simpler for you Andante:

There's only two non cleared VTs, there's

confirmed scum

in the PRs if this is a 3-player team. If you town lean any of PP/Kowah, there's likely more than one scum from your pov as well in the PRs.

If someone thinks either me or you are scum, they still have to likely sort Firebringer first, another PR.

It's like having counterclaims (because town would be too powerful for it all to be true) and then someone saying "eh, they'll just resolve themselves on one night, let's maybe lim outside of it?"

No...that doesn't make any sense, all of the VTs right now can be town theoretically but all of the PRs

cannot

be town theoretically.

[Shirou]

Geraintm was by far the scummiest slot in the massclaim. Herta took a bit to fullclaim but nowhere near geraintm.

I'm starting to believe geraintm was worried about being caught red-handed by claiming something wrong when herta had a result of some sort on him

[Shirou]

It's getting so incredibly hard to believe Fire isn't scum to me due to PoE.

-> 3 scum in: [Geraintm/Herta/Freedom/Fire/Kowah/PP?]

Then I take PP off because I town lean him, and we've:

-> 3 scum in: [Geraintm/Herta/Freedom/Kowah/Fire]

I'm...starting to like some of Kowah posts, and if I take Kowah off and:

-> 3 scum in: [Geraintm/Herta/Freedom/Fire]

I'm starting to think Herta/Gertainm interactions are a bit too weird to be scum together perhaps, so if Geraintm/Herta aren't scum together in this scenario, Fire has gotta to be scum.

I don't think Fire will convince me today at least that PP is scum, so basically Fire, for you to be town I think either Kowah or both [Geraintm/Herta] have to be scum.

[Shirou]

Also Andante, the people that seems to have scum on them right now is literally the same people I found most likely to be scum aside from Gryff/Gamma:

[PP, Andante²] - town lean
[

Klick

] - nulltown
[

Taly

, Kowahbunga, Firebringer¹

] - null
[

RedFF

] - nullscum
[

GammerGryff

,

Geraintm

] - scum lean
[

Herta

] - scum read

The readlist was outdated already by the end of D2 because I thought Taly flaking on this game was +scum, but basically if you remove Gryff/RedFF from that readlist, it basically leaves Herta/Geraintm/Taly/Kowa/Fire, which is the people that seems to have scum among them as well from the claims.

[Shirou]

updated readlist would be something like:

[RedFF] - town read
[PP, Andante] - town lean
[] - nulltown
[Kowahbunga] - null
[Herta, Firebringer, Taly] - nullscum
[] - scum lean
[Geraintm] - scum read

and I'm wondering whether Kowah should be brought down to nullscum or go above to nulltown.

[Shirou]

Oh, forgot to replace Taly for Freedom but you know what slot I'm talking about.

[Shirou]

I believe either 2 or perhaps all 3 scum are in the PRs.

[Shirou]

if Geraintm is scum I'm starting to believe Herta may be town and that leaves

[Fire/Freedom/Kowah] for 2 scum if PP is town, and out of those I gotta say Kowah may be the townier, alternatively it's Firebringer the townier one for defending me on D2 though.

So if Fire/Herta are town, does something like this looks balanced?

Town Announcing Lazy Hider (Gamma)
Town Loud Novice Follower (Brickwall)
Town Loud Announcing JOAT (Motion-finder, Watcher-finder, Neapolitan, Tracker) [Klick]
Town Activable Innocent Child (redFF)
Shirou = VT
Gryff = VT
Andante = VT
PenguimPower = VT

Town Loud Loyal Visitor (Firebringer)

vs

Geraintm = Mafia Announcing Compulsive Voyeur
Freedom = Mafia Announcing Roaming Watcher
Kowah = Mafia Ninja

[Shirou]

Fixed actually

Town Announcing Lazy Hider (Gamma)
Town Loud Novice Follower (Brickwall)
Town Loud Announcing JOAT (Motion-finder, Watcher-finder, Neapolitan, Tracker) [Klick]
Town Activable Innocent Child (redFF)

Town Loud Loyal Visitor (Firebringer)
Town Loud Roaming Motion Detector (Herta)

Shirou = VT
Gryff = VT
Andante = VT

PenguimPower = VT

vs

Mafia Announcing Compulsive Voyeur (Geraintm)
Mafia Announcing Roaming Watcher (Freedom)
Mafia Ninja (Kowah)

[PenguinPower]

6PRs is on the high side for a normal but makes sense with a ninja given they are all nerfed until that role is eliminated. IC is one clear. Fire can get clears but relies public discussion so is a weakened cop. Gating follower makes sense as a town role not so much as a scum role. Motion detector is weaker than watcher, especially in this setup, so i buy it being town over the watcher even though both are gated similarly. I can see voyeur acting in a rolecop capacity here to help scum get a better grasp on the setup and if it hits fire's role they know how to fake claim to prevent a guilty.

yeah...i can buy that setup.

lemme know when we're meeting geraintm.

[PenguinPower]

yeeting...gd autocorrect.

[Shirou]

Fire, even though a part of me tells me that I shouldn't I'm fine considering you town for now and agreeing to Freedom/Herta targeting you tonight as long as you take Penguim out of that investigation pool.

I'll try to explain my PP town lean because if PP is scum and you hero catch him that's good, but if he's just town like andante your checks would have had 0 impact on many people reads and it ?#feelsbad? because one clear on the [Herta/Freedom/Kowah] pool makes this game way more winnable imo

I believe that if PP is ever scum, getting one clear out of the above pool and catching him by PoE is just optimal compared to ever investigating him directly?

[Shirou]

I just really think that firebringer dead may be more useful than him getting another result perhaps...it would be like he's clearing himself so overall it's still one less person in the PoE

Firebringer flipping town also almost confirms the Ninja in my eyes, too much power for town otherwise.

[Shirou]

but if people believe Firebringer is more likely town than not I'm fine compromissing on this

[Shirou]

if:

1. Freedom/Herta agrees to target Firebringer tonight

2. Firebringer agrees to target randomly inside [Herta, Freedom, Kowah] and randomly also pick out a order of claims for them tomorrow

I can just vote Geraintm here and wrap up the day somewhat soonish

[Shirou]

I think...freedom as scum revealing the ninja and at the same time saying to lim in the VTs where his partner Kowah is...sounds anti-associative to me. It doesn't sound like a good idea at all.

But if that's the scenario, they would have killed town!Klick rather than town!Firebringer when it was so obvious that Fire was an alignment clearing PR. I'm not sure I can expect a lot of optimal play if that's the team here...

[Shirou]

If Firebringer is scum he also wants the motion detector/watcher on him to justify him not dying tomorrow perhaps but...welp, I don't have enough energy to convince people of it, and if he's indeed town his role can help solve this game a lot tomorrow.

If I'm scum here I think I would still consider ninja killing Firebringer because we very likely get one guilty tomorrow with this plan.

[Shirou]

to be clear again:

Fire should pick out the order of claims and not say whether they are right or wrong at any point until they're finished even if someone lies at the first claim or so

just to make sure nothing goes wrong

[geraintm]

I believe there's one additional thing in favor of scum!Geraint aside from the fact he at some point assumed you got no movement on him and then changed it:

Voyeur is the role that makes the most sense to be scum here in my opinion. With so many Loud roles, it's easy to get a sense of who visited who from dayplay, so for example:

If a voyeur had targeted me at night 1, and assuming Fire is telling the truth, by N2 they should know that Fire is a investigate PR as long as I said a simply "Fire visited me" or so commentary. It's relatively easy to hunt PRs here with voyeur due to announcing/loud modifiers.

I at no point thought he got no movement on me. I knew he would have, hence me saying early day 2 when he thought I could be scum that I knew why he would think that.

I don't understand how you thought it made sense for him to think you're scum either if you targeted Gryff. You couldn't know he was a motion detector, so out of all possibilities like tracker and etc, I don't see how someone that visited the person that wasn't nightkilled would think it made "sense" for someone that targeted him to think they're scum

His comment that could I be a killer meant I knew that he had targeted me (because I was told that) and that his ability knew I was absent but hadn't got a result that meant he could say I was scum, just he was suspicious. I acknowledged their concern but I was confident as town they would never be able to find me guilty as scum because they never would be able to.
I was incredibly disappointed that my target never said they had been targeted by someone, because I would have been able to point to that. My night action, targeting herta and crumbling it was to show them why I was absent night 1

I merely made a typo in my round up, it was obviously nothing more than that.

If I am scum I don't sit there and clear herta in day 2 (and I did back off from it when I was told to btw, even though I wasnsure) and then let herta stay alive night 2 but instead target them with my ability.

[Shirou]

who is scum then and why geraint?