Legends of the Buisness Company [Staplers Take Over the World]

[Gamma Emerald]

Gun to my head its STD-Sheep, IG, distant third for me in the PoE would be Gamma, I guess you could swap gamma and sheep but I still just don't really see a world where STD isnt scum and I guess I'm just willing to go with it.

why is sheep in your PoE atp?

[T-Bone]

Has Shea or Sheep ever divulged what their PT is like? I vaguely recall getting something when it was Shea/Haschel.

[Thestatusquo]

Because I do not think Tbone is scum, I do not think psyche was a bus, I do not think the PT was faked.

This leaves me with three names who can be scum, and I feel like you've been mostly with me on getting shirou and norwee all game so that makes you less likely than the other two, it's mostly that I think you and sheep feel town to me but it kind of feels like one of you two has to be scum unless tbone is absolutely snowing me.

[Thestatusquo]

basically nothing.

[Thestatusquo]

theres been like 15 posts since sheep replaced in and like a third of that is fb.

[Gamma Emerald]

Because I do not think Tbone is scum, I do not think psyche was a bus, I do not think the PT was faked.

This leaves me with three names who can be scum, and I feel like you've been mostly with me on getting shirou and norwee all game so that makes you less likely than the other two, it's mostly that I think you and sheep feel town to me but it kind of feels like one of you two has to be scum unless tbone is absolutely snowing me.

I think you're off-base in that the PT doesn't have to be faked for Dunn to be scum

[Thestatusquo]

I know you think that but I think it is just extremely unlikely that there is a scum-scum pt with that much detail that dunn could comb through with all the events happening in the right place.

Is it possible? Sure IG but I'm happy ignoring that possibility because I think its minute and quite frankly I dont understand why you seem to be continually focused on something that is possible but extremely unlikely vs what is waaaaay more likely here which is that alisae was just town.

[Gamma Emerald]

because what I'm focused on is what's in front of me, which is that Alisae had weird af interactions with multiple slots

[Thestatusquo]

I agree, it would be incredibly easy for me to conclude that slot is scum because that would mean my initial read of norwee shirou alisae all being scum would be right and I'm not immune to wanting to feed my ego, I just feel like occams razer is a very useful mafia tool.

[Gamma Emerald]

Why is me challenging norwee rash

I just don't like the idea of having to vote anyone in your team off. I think that limits the scope of what possible information can be gotten and it quickly becomes an icky situation if we don't want to vote norwee off for whatever reason.

what???
I think what you're getting at is you'd rather another team challenge norwee if it's gonna happen but this is weirdly phrased

That would be more ideal ya.
I think it's phrased like that because like I feel like that challenge specifically forces me to elim Norwee regardless of if I like it or not. Even if he ends up towntelling, I would have to pick a different person in that challenge to want to vote to eliminate.

Like there's just no plan B it forces everyone to vote this player or not vote and that's kinda icky... Kinda like the situation a lot of other players are in right with with like cakez...

Welcome to literally thats how this game works.

This is the kind of mindset that allows wolves to brute force these kind of challenges and create awkward and icky situations for town to be in that can generally end up leading to apathy and not caring for the game.

I think it would be best for the people who have awareness that their team is wolfy to be the ones to send out challenges.

oh hey this also exists
still dislike this blatant disregard for mech

[Thestatusquo]

tbh this feels a lot like gamma knows she will eventually have to miselim dunn to win this game.

[Gamma Emerald]

and how exactly do I deal with that?
by kowtowing and doing whatever your majesty shea says???

don't like this either
anyway, this is the last post I'll post about from backreading for tonight. I think I've made sufficient progress that I can get through things in decent pace if I keep things up

[Gamma Emerald]

tbh this feels a lot like gamma knows she will eventually have to miselim dunn to win this game.

[T-Bone]

you hadn't realized that tomorrow is ELO if psyche is town?

calm down psyceh has decent odds of being wolf i think

There's like 10 posts like these so I'm gonna stop here and scroll down to see what else Shirou/Norwee do in this winning timeframe.

if psyche is town this game is fucking over rofl

that's kind of what i feel if both psyche/ali are town yeah

i'm the unique alternative to those as well atm it seems

any1 feeling confident enough about a scumread to stake their life on the line

you mean self voting tomorrow or just resigning yourself to die if wrong?

i'm not sure there's someone with enough points for a swap other than enchant, but also i wouldn't be sure on who to swap for in psyche's place if it's a "get scum or die" situation

p-edit:

i'm not confident enough on psyche to just deathtunnel like that but i do think it's already figuratively like that and either me or ali dies tomorrow if psyche flips town though

so is staking even necessary

well theres other people playing other than you dude

well yeah but a lot of people seen to have a problem with my slot or ali so i'm just saying what realistically would happen in that situation

then why did you challenge psyche in the first post of the dayphase

So this is probably the exchange that set Shirou and Norwee on the path to change the lim target? It's interesting how Shirou ties psyche and Alisae together as scum/town. I wonder if Shirou ever does that with any other players, perhaps in his Norwee townread? This is a little later as everyone has had time to discuss the game a bit and Shirou questions why Alisae challenged psyche right away. This feeds back into my theory that Shriou may have had Alisae pocketed. This is a little different from earlier in the phase where Shriou was trying to soft defend Alisae/get Alisae to justify their play.

if people trusted me to be town and trust my read on ali to be right i do feel like maybe

just maybe

i could hit scum in next two lims

but i know that's selfish and actually more responsibility that i can bear atm if i failed

i would do [psyche/cakez] if i had the shots

actually not sure cakez

could have better alternatives idk

I keep finding sets of posts that make me think psyche/cakez were both mislim targets. Shirou would do both of them, but then recants on Cakez. This looks like Shirou knows both slots are town to me.

I'm gonna skip down past this and past the Alisae replace out. There's no Shirou/Norwee interactions between these posts and then, and this all still happened later in the day after the Titus flip. Shirou posts a lot, I might just need to focus back in on when Shirou/Norwee were interacting (and if Norwee interacts with anyone else in the thread).

[sheepsaysmeep]

ur like 10 years late to concluding psyche is an innocent child

[sheepsaysmeep]

nah gamma is p right about pt stuff i think, its just not something thats incredibly unlikely to come from scum lol
She linked an example earlier
theyre just fairly frequent imo

[sheepsaysmeep]

If anything I think std/norwe pt things he described are more likely to be not w/w; I don’t think they are but it did give me pause

[T-Bone]

ur like 10 years late to concluding psyche is an innocent child

You're not paying attention or reading, I already said that I think psyche was deliberately a mislim target for Shirou, I'm just confirming as I read back through his and Norwee's ISO.

Like it's okay to reexamine your own reads.

[sheepsaysmeep]

yeah ur right sorry I wasn't paying attention or reading

[sheepsaysmeep]

std iso is so villagery tho dude goddamnit

[Dunnstral]

Oh as a side note I do want to apologize to Dunn as I am quoting things he can't really answer for. I found myself in a situation last game where I hyper focused reading on a big player who replaced out and I didn't give the replacement player as much benefit as I should have early on. Same thing applies to Gimli to a lesser extent.

Here's what I can say though:

Alisae challenging Psyche would have been bold if both Alisae and Shirou were mafia together. That puts both of them on the chopping block against only 1 other person; and the outcome wasn't super clear cut either

[Dunnstral]

nah gamma is p right about pt stuff i think, its just not something thats incredibly unlikely to come from scum lol

Do you have another example of where this happened before?

[Dunnstral]

https://discord.gg/kXUJsnTf8u
this is the chat that was between two scum that I'm referring to
it apparently wasn't as active as claimed but they bluffed pretty convincingly

I can't access this by the way

[T-Bone]

I mean it's clear that they had a long conversation in the PT you confirmed it and believing that you could make up an intricate conversation between two players that aren't you is a little insane. (Though kudos if we find out post game you did just that)

I asked Gamma whether she thought they were capable. I'm sure fake PTs between scum have happened before and will happen again in the future. So I'm not questioning whether such a thing could exist.

[Thestatusquo]

I don't really think anyone has adequately explained to me the motivation.

I understand that could theoretically be motivation for having some stuff going on in your pt so you don't have to think of it off the cuff when asked about it, that makes sense to me. I am a little less clear on what people think the motivation would be for cosplaying as town for 16 pages complete with what seem like genuine emotional responses. That is far and away beyond what is necessary to have some stuff to talk about if you get asked, and I am extremely certain that scum wouldn't bother with it. I could see there being a desire to lie about your PT being more active than it is, and having some stuff in there so you can bring up specifics later, but people arguing that scum can do it to this degree seem to be completely ignoring that this is not that.

The only other motivation I can think of would be exactly what happened: Which is that one of them replaces out, and then the person who replaced them has a big laundry list of things to confirm themselves with, but that strikes me as far and away beyond the scope of what the vast majority of players would do in a game of mafia, and I just simply don't believe that happened here. Most players don't make eventualities when they're not planning on replacing out from the start of the game in case they ever do replace out so the person who replaced them can confirm themselves.

That is just simply not how people's minds work usually, so I am willing to completely discount it as a possibility.

It's an extremely strange argument that both sheep and gamma are making that this is not only something that could happen, but rather something that is LIKELY TO have happened when I think it is so ridiculously more likely to have not been what happened that it makes me think both of them are being driven with an agenda.