Legends of the Buisness Company [Staplers Take Over the World]

[sheepsaysmeep]

I just think it's fairly reasonable lol

they even seem like they'd have fun doing it and it would improve their in-thread wolfing to role-play it that far lol, just a guess

no one has to replace out.. they just have to get asked about it, which would totally happen
even we are getting asked about our PT despite never referencing it as meaningful
and then gets confirmed as not w/w by your logic

for example
-shirou flips wolf
-alisae please justify how you were so pocketed
-you know what here's everything so u guys can decide for yourselves
-wow what a real conversation that would never be between 2 wolves

[Gamma Emerald]

https://discord.gg/kXUJsnTf8u
this is the chat that was between two scum that I'm referring to
it apparently wasn't as active as claimed but they bluffed pretty convincingly

I can't access this by the way

Uhhh what
It should be a forever link?

[Thestatusquo]

I just think it's fairly reasonable lol

they even seem like they'd have fun doing it and it would improve their in-thread wolfing to role-play it that far lol, just a guess

no one has to replace out.. they just have to get asked about it, which would totally happen
even we are getting asked about our PT despite never referencing it as meaningful
and then gets confirmed as not w/w by your logic

for example
-shirou flips wolf
-alisae please justify how you were so pocketed
-you know what here's everything so u guys can decide for yourselves
-wow what a real conversation that would never be between 2 wolves

What percentage of s-s pts look like this do you think?

[Thestatusquo]

it works but I'm not joining a discord server just to read that.

[Firebringer]

Wolf Pack vs Johnson's vs 7.01

Save the Dragons (2): T-Bone, Dunnstral
Thestatusquo (0):
Sheepssaysmeep (1): Save The Dragons


Not Voting (4): Gamma Emerald,, Thestatusquo, Sheepssaysmeep, Gimli



With 7 Alive, It Takes 4 to Eliminate.
Deadline for challenge is (expired on 2023-02-18 16:45:00)

Mod Notes:

[Gamma Emerald]

I don't really think anyone has adequately explained to me the motivation.

I understand that could theoretically be motivation for having some stuff going on in your pt so you don't have to think of it off the cuff when asked about it, that makes sense to me. I am a little less clear on what people think the motivation would be for cosplaying as town for 16 pages complete with what seem like genuine emotional responses. That is far and away beyond what is necessary to have some stuff to talk about if you get asked, and I am extremely certain that scum wouldn't bother with it. I could see there being a desire to lie about your PT being more active than it is, and having some stuff in there so you can bring up specifics later, but people arguing that scum can do it to this degree seem to be completely ignoring that this is not that.

The only other motivation I can think of would be exactly what happened: Which is that one of them replaces out, and then the person who replaced them has a big laundry list of things to confirm themselves with, but that strikes me as far and away beyond the scope of what the vast majority of players would do in a game of mafia, and I just simply don't believe that happened here. Most players don't make eventualities when they're not planning on replacing out from the start of the game in case they ever do replace out so the person who replaced them can confirm themselves.

That is just simply not how people's minds work usually, so I am willing to completely discount it as a possibility.

It's an extremely strange argument that both sheep and gamma are making that this is not only something that could happen, but rather something that is LIKELY TO have happened when I think it is so ridiculously more likely to have not been what happened that it makes me think both of them are being driven with an agenda.

Okay first I think you’re misinterpreting me, because I don’t really have a likelihood value judgement on the PT situation and won’t have one until I compare Shirou’s thing with Dunnstral’s, second what’s so agenda driven about saying that’s the likely scenario? I remember a wiki article about possibility vs. probability and how scum tend to push possibilities to open up options while Town try to focus on what’s probable. If I was saying it was the likely scenario, I think that should make me townier?

[Gamma Emerald]

it works but I'm not joining a discord server just to read that.

I wouldn’t expect you (by which I do mean you specifically) to given your stances on meta

[sheepsaysmeep]

I just think it's fairly reasonable lol

they even seem like they'd have fun doing it and it would improve their in-thread wolfing to role-play it that far lol, just a guess

no one has to replace out.. they just have to get asked about it, which would totally happen
even we are getting asked about our PT despite never referencing it as meaningful
and then gets confirmed as not w/w by your logic

for example
-shirou flips wolf
-alisae please justify how you were so pocketed
-you know what here's everything so u guys can decide for yourselves
-wow what a real conversation that would never be between 2 wolves

What percentage of s-s pts look like this do you think?

idk I play more on MU where it would be 90% but I know that's a bit weird and try-hard

but the circumstances where going through and summarizing or paraphrasing everything seems near-standard are present here too

[sheepsaysmeep]

I suppose im conflating this a bit with games where PT are within the same alignment, like a hydra

doing it just to prove non w/w would be less likely yeah

just not like unimaginable at all to me

[Thestatusquo]

there's literally no way its 90%, that's an absurd claim.

If its that high you should have no problem providing me with many examples of it happening on MU that I could look at.

So far we only have the one example from gamma which she walked back as being not as detailed as she remembered it being.

[Thestatusquo]

I don't really think anyone has adequately explained to me the motivation.

I understand that could theoretically be motivation for having some stuff going on in your pt so you don't have to think of it off the cuff when asked about it, that makes sense to me. I am a little less clear on what people think the motivation would be for cosplaying as town for 16 pages complete with what seem like genuine emotional responses. That is far and away beyond what is necessary to have some stuff to talk about if you get asked, and I am extremely certain that scum wouldn't bother with it. I could see there being a desire to lie about your PT being more active than it is, and having some stuff in there so you can bring up specifics later, but people arguing that scum can do it to this degree seem to be completely ignoring that this is not that.

The only other motivation I can think of would be exactly what happened: Which is that one of them replaces out, and then the person who replaced them has a big laundry list of things to confirm themselves with, but that strikes me as far and away beyond the scope of what the vast majority of players would do in a game of mafia, and I just simply don't believe that happened here. Most players don't make eventualities when they're not planning on replacing out from the start of the game in case they ever do replace out so the person who replaced them can confirm themselves.

That is just simply not how people's minds work usually, so I am willing to completely discount it as a possibility.

It's an extremely strange argument that both sheep and gamma are making that this is not only something that could happen, but rather something that is LIKELY TO have happened when I think it is so ridiculously more likely to have not been what happened that it makes me think both of them are being driven with an agenda.

Okay first I think you’re misinterpreting me, because I don’t really have a likelihood value judgement on the PT situation and won’t have one until I compare Shirou’s thing with Dunnstral’s, second what’s so agenda driven about saying that’s the likely scenario? I remember a wiki article about possibility vs. probability and how scum tend to push possibilities to open up options while Town try to focus on what’s probable. If I was saying it was the likely scenario, I think that should make me townier?

In this situation you are literally doing the opposite. You are ignoring the extremely way more likely scenario in order to push a narrative that it COULD happen and therefore we shouldn't clear dunn.

It's like LITERALLY the opposite. You are LITERALLY doing the thing that you are saying the article says scum are more likely to do to keep open the option that alisae's slot could be scum.

[Gamma Emerald]

That’s not what you said in the original post.

[Thestatusquo]

Please quote the parts of my post which are incompatible with the claim that you are pushing a narrative that is incredibly unlikely in order to keep open the option.

[Thestatusquo]

like I get I said at the end that I thought it was odd that you were pushing it as something that was likely to be the case however I thought it was extremely clear from context that I don't think it is likely to be the case and I think it is absurd that both of you are claiming it is.

I think you're vastly overstating the amount that this happens.

[Gamma Emerald]

It's an extremely strange argument that both sheep and gamma are making that this is not only something that could happen, but rather something that is LIKELY TO have happened

[Thestatusquo]

And like maybe you haven't explicitly claimed that its likely to happen, but that's the point, no? By continually bringing it up you are suggesting that its a thing a) I ought to consider while sorting the slots and b) a thing you ARE considering when sorting the slots.

So which is it? Is it unlikely and I and you shouldn't be considering it and therefore you are bringing it up purely to leave open a hypothetical possibility that is extremely unlikely to have happened in order to leave someone in the lim pool or are you claiming it is likely and are just extremely and verifiably wrong?

PEDIT: Thats semantic garbage, I already addressed it.

[Gamma Emerald]

I think you’re acting in extremely bad faith given you are stripping my theory of context. My belief that the PT is scum+scum despite apparently being so long is rooted in my belief that Alisae had been extremely shifty about approaching multiple flipped town.

[Gamma Emerald]

That should be the only retort I will post to the argument you are currently making.

[Gamma Emerald]

nah gamma is p right about pt stuff i think, its just not something thats incredibly unlikely to come from scum lol
She linked an example earlier
theyre just fairly frequent imo

I specifically noted a caveat that I only thought there was a lot of content in that server since the scum in it bluffed really well, it didn’t have that much in it when I looked myself
If you were just saying “I agree with gamma’s stance” it would be fine but citing the discord link as an example in favor of my point is off-base

[Gamma Emerald]

If anything I think std/norwe pt things he described are more likely to be not w/w; I don’t think they are but it did give me pause

What were these btw? I’ve been trying to find why I thought Fenrir wasn’t scum w Norwee and that might be it

[Thestatusquo]

That's not responsive at all.

Which is it, is it unlikely or is it likely gamma? If it's unlikely why are you ignoring that? If its likely please provide evidence for this claim

[Gamma Emerald]

I mean it's clear that they had a long conversation in the PT you confirmed it and believing that you could make up an intricate conversation between two players that aren't you is a little insane. (Though kudos if we find out post game you did just that)

I asked Gamma whether she thought they were capable. I'm sure fake PTs between scum have happened before and will happen again in the future. So I'm not questioning whether such a thing could exist.

Ftr I still think Shirou+Alisae absolutely could have built up that amount of posts as both scum

[Gamma Emerald]

That's not responsive at all.

Which is it, is it unlikely or is it likely gamma? If it's unlikely why are you ignoring that? If its likely please provide evidence for this claim

How about no? In fact, I dislike this sole focus on locking me into a stance. I feel like scum tried to do this to me in Eurybia’s Curse.

[Gamma Emerald]

Oh as a side note I do want to apologize to Dunn as I am quoting things he can't really answer for. I found myself in a situation last game where I hyper focused reading on a big player who replaced out and I didn't give the replacement player as much benefit as I should have early on. Same thing applies to Gimli to a lesser extent.

Here's what I can say though:

Alisae challenging Psyche would have been bold if both Alisae and Shirou were mafia together. That puts both of them on the chopping block against only 1 other person; and the outcome wasn't super clear cut either

This does ring a bell for me

[Thestatusquo]

So you refuse to take a stance on if the PT is real or fake?