Newbie 2113 - Shea it ain't So! | Game Over!

[skitter30]

Why is dio being the focus of town? Pages and pages of dio being town vs. dio being scum, we need to move on, focus on someone new

Why are you voting dio rn?

[Empathice]

Doing a full re-read while the thread is still short and some thoughts as I go.

#4 - skitter puts RVS vote on me. I didn't think much of it at the time for obvious reasons, but reading their ISO it is the start of a consistent push from.... not much
#20 - Herta's entrance which I think is scummy (completely nothing post and then disappears)
#22 and #28- skitter continuing their push on me. Kawaii answered the reason they were voting Black was because Black voted herta. Skitter tries to have this logic applied to me for also voting herta. Note that at this point I hadn't made my mistake over the motivation for my vote on herta
#29 - patchwork's entrance (not linking to all 3 posts but this is the first). Idk what this posts is in reference too but it is followed with a post asking for personal details of players that aren't relevant and also regurgitating a question that was already asked on page 1. Initially townread them for this because I think it was too weird an intro for scum but I've been told this is too dumb a reason to tr someone so these posts (out of context) are now null to me.
#34 - Up until this point there is a weird thing about people voting herta, kawaii explains here that the vote on Black for this was down to their stated reasons. Kawaii why didn't you just say this initially?
#41 - kawaii picks up on my mistake
#50 - BBT rejoins the fray to say I'm scummy for.... reasons. Doesn't feel based on the discussion earlier about the mistaken reasons for voting herta. The page ends with BBT tring me (or not sring me) off the back off it because my explanation was so bad (lol)
#67 - skitter is not convinced
#81 - I post my tr on patchwork. Get pushback from both skitter #85 and patchwork themselves #88
#93 - skitter explains the sr on patchwork being over their vote on kawaii
#94 - patch explains it's because they think kawaii was buddying. Unclear what is buddying about their vote on Black being because they voted Herta? Although they admit this is silly reasoning and later that buddying is the incorrect term
#107 - A post from patchwork that I would call buddying of kawaii
#111 - hadrian returns with a tr on patch and BBT and a bad vibe on skitter
#117 - after a bit of a nudge, skitter finally votes me after a lot of finger pointing
#120 - black posts some good analysis which I think comes from a town mindset even if I don't necessarily agree with it all
#131 - I *do* agree with what is posted here, though. I have come undone as town in previous games over stupid stuff that has happened in RVS. I have witnessed other town players come undone over stupid RVS stuff. I have myself tunnelled on town players over stupid RVS stuff. This is why I don't love the stage (which skitter knows). But it's not for me to tell others how to play the game!

Skitter - seems to be a bit tunnelled here, not sure if overzealous townie or opportunistic scum, but I will see how she interacts with others.
patch - leaning scum now. their contributions after their intro haven't been great and I don't get the sense they are actually trying to find scum.
Herta - Hope everything goes ok with your procedure! But in terms of the game you will probably be a big null to me until we get more from them so I hope they're town
Empathice - Really like this slot. Only 9 posts so far but their contributions already feel much more helpful for town than some of the more active posters
kawaii - reading through their ISO in isolation, there is a lot of asking others questions about why they have done something or what they mean, but very little of their own thoughts. Not great for the poster with the second highest post count
black - townread, thoughtful analysis which feels likeit comes from a town mindset
BBT - null at this point. Don't know one way or another
hadrian - null. need much more

Town read

Empathice
Black

Lean town

Null

Herta
BBT
Hadrian

Lean scum

Skitter

Scum read

Kawaii

Too many nulls for my liking scumleaning skitter for now because they came out against a vote on kawaii when from what I can see kawaii is a pretty good bw to start with.

VOTE: kawaii

Mod Note: Fixed post tag

This is a scumlean. I'm talking about this-

We absolutely need more from hadrian and Herta. I'm not sure if Herta is even going to contribute over the next few days with their procedure. Idk what Hadrian's excuse is

Hadrian has been online today and didn't post. I also saw them online yesterday and not posting. +lurkscum while a wagon against me is being pushed.

Empathice's ISO is not a town ISO btw. Just read it and tell me you honestly think it comes from an experienced town player. He joins the game and immediately jumps on the wagon with the most mobility, and then every single post he has made after that has been tunneling on that wagon. This isn't scumhunting.

I initially townread them because I liked the way they had analysed what had happened and it felt like it had come from a pro-town perspective, even if their analysis is obviously incorrect from my pov. However, they have just tunnelled me since then. The way someone characterised skitter's early behaviour as opportunistic scum taking advantage of a newb mistake during RVS can definitely be applied to empathice. At least skitter has entertained other wagons, empathice has not. So I think this comes from a scum mindset.

This is pretty terrible reasoning too from someone who has me top of their scum list. In summary your read is based on vibes. You also cite me having a lot of posts but don't get the sense I'm trying to solve yet you tr patches of all people.

Sometimes vibes/feelings is all you have to go off of, I don't think it's pretty terrible, definitely not ideal

It's not just because their read seems to be mostly vibes that I think is bad. Skitter also includes in her justification that I'm posting a lot but don't seem like I'm solving and that I don't have any solid scumreads (which I don't agree with). Even if that latter point were true, how can that be scummy for me, but not someone like patches? Who still leads the table for posts but is doing nothing to try and solve the game. It is not very consistent.

Skitter is an obvious possible scum partner for empathice. Empathice very briefly put a bit of heat in skitter's direction for no apparent reason when they joined the game. This can be a helpful scum tactic to hide a partnership. If scum immediately goes for their partner then that will be the first thing people see when reviewing someone's whole ISO. They both have also similarly tunnelled me (although skitter has been more open minded than emp) and neither is able to justify their read beyond vibes and a dumb RVS mistake.

This might be too obvious a pair, so I look to patches.

I do not buy that this slot is behaving in a pro-town way. As I have said, they have barely made any effort to solve the game. Their biggest read is an omgus on me and their most notable post is a butthurt wall of text telling me that asking about pokemon isn't dumb, actually (this is tongue in cheek, patches. pls don't give me another tl;dr). The pro-town argument for them is that their frustration seems genuine, but then patches has said this:

I liked getting their unfiltered thoughts, it felt v real and raw. The frustration seems townie to me

also on this im always very raw with my thoughts regardless of alignment,

as maf i tend to respond with frustration when scumread or voted and its usually very genuine because im just good at slipping into the townie role

(believe it or not) one game i won as scum because i kept forgetting i was mafia-aligned. and yeah that Happened! i was a non-meeting mafia tho
so you really can't townread me for that really, it's nai at most
though i guess you don't know my meta so can't really blame you for thinking that of me

Did no one else pick up on this? Patches basically agreeing with skitter that their frustration is genuine because AS MAFIA they tend to respond with frustration when scumread. This feels like a pretty apt description of what has happened so far: lashing out in frustration because they have been scumread. In the same sentence this comment is qualified with saying that they are very good at slipping into a town mindset even when scum. So if we take patches at their word, their frustration is at best NAI because they would behave the same no matter alignment, or at worst frustrated scum. This looks like a scumslip to me, though. Why even specify that this is how you behave as mafia if this is how you behave fullstop.

So if patches is scum, who is their partner? I don't feel skitter as a scumpartner for patches. They have argued too strongly in their defence which I just don't think skitter would do if they were partners. Empathice is more likely, especially with:

lol am i seriously at e-2
so far the only reasons are "thought herta/kawaii were partnered" and "fluffposting in rvs" and both of them are pretty sad
though to be fair the tr reasons are just as sad

The fluffposting accusations would

maybe

vanish if you actually posted a readslist like you said.

Could be a prod/signal to their partner that posting reads will get some heat off them whilst maintaining the image of trying to hunt scum.

So my top 2 scum pairs at the mo are:

skitter/empathice
patches/empathice

I don't want to tunnel on these three though so if I have time later I will look for scum in other slots, but it is tricky until herta and hadrian start to contribute.

[Dionysus]

And where from that did you get that my patches push is built around you? Because if you read the rest of my ISO you will see my patches push has been there a while.

[Empathice]

And where from that did you get that my patches push is built around you? Because if you read the rest of my ISO you will see my patches push has been there a while.

Because this is a wallpost and the other posts you are refering to do not qualify as a strong push.

[KawaiiKame]

I find the relationship between dio/skitter the most interesting, skitter pursuing dio feels like town pursuing mafia/mafia pursuing town, I'm divided with the philosophy of pursuing votes based on rvs slips/mistakes, if I take skitter's pursuit in good faith dio is most likely scum, if I take skitter's pursuit in bad faith then dio is most likely town, I believe you can scumhunt in any stage with rvs being the most nai, skitter definitely changed the game state with the dio vote

Can you explain how you ruled out town pursuing town?

Why can't Skitter's pursuit be both in good faith but also just wrong? This feels like setting up flips and I don't like it

Let's explore this possibility, if Skitter and dio both town then it's highly likely Black is town and empathice is mafia
The way Black is defending dio feels genuinely town to me, questioning why dio is being pursued so hard/wanting thoughts on people not named dio, antithetical to skittles who asked my thoughts on dio.

Empathice set the stage against dio in the beginning with the powerwolfing post against you then pursued dio all in when skitter went against dio following hadrian's vote pressure, though I liked the initial aggression dio's became Empathice's sole focus, this can be overzealous town but why is Empathice not interacting with people to push the dio vote? I feel Empathice town would push everyone to vote dio straight up, the aggression definitely exists

I touched on Black since she feels town to me, I want to emphasize her inquisitive/defensive nature, wanting ppl to solve in #362

[KawaiiKame]

So if patches is scum, who is their partner? I don't feel skitter as a scumpartner for patches. They have argued too strongly in their defence which I just don't think skitter would do if they were partners. Empathice is more likely, especially with:

I like this post from you and it seems like you're trying to solve, however I'm not confident that patches or skitter are scum with Empathice. I see the connections you are making and it's definitely not out of the question. I'm just not sure patches being candid about how they play as either alignment is a scum slip. skitter has been closely linked to Empathice and I'm not sure if the scum team would be this coordinated in such an awful wagon together. Possible, but also very risky

Why don't you feel a patches/skitter scum team with Empathice?

[Dionysus]

And where from that did you get that my patches push is built around you? Because if you read the rest of my ISO you will see my patches push has been there a while.

Because this is a wallpost and the other posts you are refering to do not qualify as a strong push.

so you agree that my patches push predates this post? Good.

Now can you please make some posts (any posts) about other players? The vast majority of your posts are about me. It is beyond tiresome now and you *might* find some value on focusing somewhere other than me, if you're town that is.

[Black]

So if patches is scum, who is their partner? I don't feel skitter as a scumpartner for patches. They have argued too strongly in their defence which I just don't think skitter would do if they were partners. Empathice is more likely, especially with:

I like this post from you and it seems like you're trying to solve, however I'm not confident that patches or skitter are scum with Empathice. I see the connections you are making and it's definitely not out of the question. I'm just not sure patches being candid about how they play as either alignment is a scum slip. skitter has been closely linked to Empathice and I'm not sure if the scum team would be this coordinated in such an awful wagon together. Possible, but also very risky

Why don't you feel a patches/skitter scum team with Empathice?

I don't think it's Empathice/skitter because they are double teaming Dio and I think that is a losing strategy for a scumteam. It could be Emp/patches but I'm not currently sr'ing patches atm

[Empathice]

And where from that did you get that my patches push is built around you? Because if you read the rest of my ISO you will see my patches push has been there a while.

Because this is a wallpost and the other posts you are refering to do not qualify as a strong push.

so you agree that my patches push predates this post? Good.

Now can you please make some posts (any posts) about other players? The vast majority of your posts are about me. It is beyond tiresome now and you *might* find some value on focusing somewhere other than me, if you're town that is.

This is absolutely the worst time to focus on someone else IMO.

[skitter30]

Maybe dio + kawaii

[Dionysus]

Colour me shocked.

Fuck it.

VOTE: empathise

This is not a townie.

[skitter30]

Yes it is

[Empathice]

Maybe dio + kawaii

Maybe but their post just above looks very towny to me.

[Dionysus]

Yes it is

I think with the exception of one post, maybe two I'd have to check, all their posts have been about me and the push has been quite aggressive. The closest they've ever come to entertaining someone else was a fluff vote on you which was immediately retracted (no commentary from you tho on what the purpose of it was tho. Weird). But since then: Dio Dio Dio Dio. No focus elsewhere. Not interested in thinking they might be wrong. Dio Dio Dio Dio.

How is that town behaviour? Some verbose way of saying "because I agree with them" is not an acceptable answer to this question either. Tell me why they are town

[Empathice]

Yes it is

I think with the exception of one post, maybe two I'd have to check, all their posts have been about me and the push has been quite aggressive. The closest they've ever come to entertaining someone else was a fluff vote on you which was immediately retracted (no commentary from you tho on what the purpose of it was tho. Weird). But since then: Dio Dio Dio Dio. No focus elsewhere. Not interested in thinking they might be wrong. Dio Dio Dio Dio.

How is that town behaviour? Some verbose way of saying "because I agree with them" is not an acceptable answer to this question either. Tell me why they are town

Reading you correctly doesn't make me win. Eliminating you makes me win.

[Dionysus]

Yes it is

I think with the exception of one post, maybe two I'd have to check, all their posts have been about me and the push has been quite aggressive. The closest they've ever come to entertaining someone else was a fluff vote on you which was immediately retracted (no commentary from you tho on what the purpose of it was tho. Weird). But since then: Dio Dio Dio Dio. No focus elsewhere. Not interested in thinking they might be wrong. Dio Dio Dio Dio.

How is that town behaviour? Some verbose way of saying "because I agree with them" is not an acceptable answer to this question either. Tell me why they are town

Reading you correctly doesn't make me win. Eliminating you makes me win.

eliminating me will only help you win if you're scum. So on that I guess you're right: getting rid of me will make you win.

[Black]

Yes it is

I don't think you understand what anti-town behavior looks like. Just because someone agrees with you on a read...that shouldn't make them confirmed town in your mind

It's so weird that you consider tunneling pro-town behavior and yet one of the reasons you're scumreading Dio is because he's not tunneling on patch and trying to get lurkers involved. Like, this is so backwards. It feels like you've convinced yourself Dio is scum to the point where you are jumping through hoops to find ways his posts are scummy

[KawaiiKame]

Why is dio being the focus of town? Pages and pages of dio being town vs. dio being scum, we need to move on, focus on someone new

Why are you voting dio rn?

The flip, voting dio gives town a lot of info, though I'm tempted to unvote
Idk if I need to believe you + Empathice/Black + dio

[Black]

Another Empathice sighting and another post about Dio. Do you have thoughts on any other players in this game?

Emp casually dodged this question. It's almost like he's actively trying to avoid giving thoughts and opinions on other players. That's wolf behavior btw

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Skitter, you're viewing this game really hard through a Scum!Dion lens.

I'd like you to drop it and look elsewhere please. Why did the patches wagon disintegrate?

Black has joined my town reads, too. Like their push on Empathice and not a fan of Empathice's tunneling on Dio.

[KawaiiKame]

Fuck it
UNVOTE: Dio

[Empathice]

Yes it is

I think with the exception of one post, maybe two I'd have to check, all their posts have been about me and the push has been quite aggressive. The closest they've ever come to entertaining someone else was a fluff vote on you which was immediately retracted (no commentary from you tho on what the purpose of it was tho. Weird). But since then: Dio Dio Dio Dio. No focus elsewhere. Not interested in thinking they might be wrong. Dio Dio Dio Dio.

How is that town behaviour? Some verbose way of saying "because I agree with them" is not an acceptable answer to this question either. Tell me why they are town

Reading you correctly doesn't make me win. Eliminating you makes me win.

eliminating me will only help you win if you're scum. So on that I guess you're right: getting rid of me will make you win.

Would you like to thunderdome? One of us gets eliminated today and if they flip town we eliminate the other tomorrow.

[skitter30]

@bbt tbh i really don't know where scum is if it isnt dio

[Empathice]

Skitter, you're viewing this game really hard through a Scum!Dion lens.

I'd like you to drop it and look elsewhere please. Why did the patches wagon disintegrate?

Black has joined my town reads, too. Like their push on Empathice and not a fan of Empathice's tunneling on Dio.

Can you respond to my address to you in post #200 now if you're caught up? I Was trying to talk to you about your TR on Dion.

[Dionysus]

@bbt tbh i really don't know where scum is if it isnt dio

Because you haven't bothered trying to look that's why