Newbie 2111 - Know Your Skittles! (Game Over)

[Aureal]

Like, what even was the case on Elements? She was wrong about Save the Dragons and Weuler. Doesn't make her scum though. I've seen her do crazier stuff than the "claim or I'll hammer" that people so much didn't like.

[furtiveglance]

Like, what even was the case on Elements? She was wrong about Save the Dragons and Weuler. Doesn't make her scum though. I've seen her do crazier stuff than the "claim or I'll hammer" that people so much didn't like.

The case is wrong on both eliminations and the weird associatives with Weuler

[Aureal]

What weird associatives, exactly? As weird as stuff like Weuler hemming and hawing about whether Human slipped in saying there was 2 PR?

[Aureal]

For that matter, would a scum Elements really put Weuler on the spot there asking for an opinion on a 'scumslip' like that?

[catboi]

Okay. I have returned to the game with a clear head. I'm going to reread things.

[catboi]

In my defense I just said I was down to flip Weuler. I didn't vote for him because I don't think we should end the Day yet

That leads me to my other main scumread: Weuler. Early on Weuler did some things that I liked and didn't like.

Things I liked:
1. Discouraging PR talk
2. Honesty and admitting when they were wrong
3. Going after inactives

Things I didn't like:
1. Felt very surface-levely
2. Case against Aureal was weak
3. Sheeped python when python accused me of flying under the radar

Like Elements though, Weuler seems to be providing more after he was called out for not doing much. I originally wanted to lim Weuler because a) his surface level playstyle was scummy, and b) I thought his alignment would give me more insight into my scumread on Elements because it was around this time that Elements was acting her scummiest and she also put Weuler at e-1. Now that I'm starting to townread Elements I don't think seeing Weuler's alignment helps me in that regard. Seeing him flip town would no longer convince me that Elements is scum like it would have earlier in the game. Weuler has gotten less surface-levely as the day has progressed so I would rather keep him to D2 to see if we can get more of this

Black, in reading your ISO one of the things that concerns me is that you make consistent mention of suspecting Weuler but for all of Day 1 you find excuses to vote elsewhere. Can you at least show me instances of where you thought Weuler's posting was improving?

[T-Bone]

Skittles Fact: Xofelf writes steamy romance novellas under a pseudonym I am not allowed to reveal.

Vote Count

furtiveglance - 1

(catboi)

e-2

catboi - 1

(furtiveglance)

e-2

Human - 1

(Black)

e-2

Not Voting - 2

(Aureal, Human)

With 5 Alive, It Takes 3 to Eliminate

Activity Check: All Good!

Deadline:

(expired on 2023-03-04 14:00:00)

[furtiveglance]

need to read this game some more

[Black]

Cat, in your top quote I was responding to someone who was accusing me of trying to rush a Weuler lim. I wasn't making an excuse...I'm pretty sure Weuler was at e-1 when I first said I was down to see his alignment. I didn't vote because it would have ended the day and I'm always against doing that early

A lot of my Weuler reads have been interactional and behavioral and I'm not confident in those types of reads because they are wrong a lot. He felt real lurky and lacking depth I think is the best way to describe it but then he started to interact with people and asking questions like he was solving. I can't remember posts specifically but I can look in a sec. This plus one post he had saying his shallow playstyle was due to IRL stuff made me doubt my read more. I didn't want to assume he was lying and I thought I could sort the slot better if he kept providing more but I also didn't want to completely brush off the scummy stuff. After the Std flip and him doing absolutely nothing D2 it was pretty obvious he was more likely to be scum

[Black]

Definitely not Arko because he's being prodded. I need to look into STD more. So right now, you or Black. Probably you, because I did not at all like your chaotic acting earlier, followed by what I perceived to be a sudden drop in activity

In my latest game STD and another player, AV, was the scum team. AV spent most of their time trying to convince people to lim std

The day is starting to run out and we do not want a rushed lim at the end of the day. Worst case scenario, our first push is a PR (happened in 2108) and then we need time to find a suitable new limee.

To the people voting for Arko: Are you willing to lim him d1 for being inactive? If not then switch your votes to someone you do want to lim.

Literally your entire case against me is I'm not playing mafia how you think I should be playing. You're even making stuff up in your head to convince yourself I'm scummy like I spend time perfecting my posts and I moved on to easier targets. You're tunneling and it is blinding you

I haven't read up yet but I feel like this is a good point.
TBH maybe it's just that I've seen TvT playstyle clashes happen a lot, but I'm never going to vote Black or python unless there's a hard guilty.

What does a hard guilty look like? Someone admitting they're scum?

I think the scum team is StD Freedom
I hadn't moved my vote in a while so I thought I'd move it

Are they the scum team by virtue of both being the scummiest, or by the interaction between them together with scumminess?

Like they were a lot more driven and logical in the game I just played with them. More jokey too. Here they seem like "let's see what happens when I do this" and stiff and reserved

May I ask you to take a look at mid-late d1 weuler from our previous game? My irl situation is about the same right now as it was then

VOTE: Human

Do you think Human has similar vibes to Cactus had?

Do you?

I can see similarities to day 2 cactus but I am wondering if it's because both their pfps are green

Ah I never got to experience d2 cactus thanks to certain people

I don't find d1 cactus and human to be alike at all

I'm liking the Meg slot so far and I think Arko's behaviour was NAI

These were some of the posts I remember being a factor in my feelings about Weuler. It felt like his activity level and player interaction count was going up around this time. I have a hard time reading surface-level slots but once they show signs of opening up a little I feel more comfortable sitting back and reading them while they are doing so

[Aureal]

I don't know if it helps anyone, but here's Weuler's voting history with snippets of his explanations. Human is the only slot he never voted.

VOTE: Elements for trying to pocket me

Arko's entrance was odd. Perhaps he is tired, perhaps not. For now I think a VOTE: Arko is not too bad.

Let's not PR hunt
UNVOTE: Arko and VOTE: Python

VOTE: Aureal is not too bad of a choice. She begins the day relatively quietly, but then suddenly comes with these posts trying to force the scum pair Human/Me. I just don't see some of the points as being genuine analysis.

Reading through Aureal's iso I don't really get a scum vibe. My earlier complaints about an argument being pulled from thin air can make sense from TownAureal being very focused on the scum pair Human/Weuler and seeing scum signs when there aren't any. I think a scumAureal could have pushed harder during the Weuler wagon. If her goal was just to lim a townie, then she could at least have voted me when the wagon started picking up.
UNVOTE: Aureal

I think you make a good point, black really gives me sheeping vibes. I'm also not a big fan of some of their posts, in particular 127 just seems forced and lamist.

I think some pressure is in order VOTE: black

I think both Elements and STD are good targets for elimination. Let's see how serious Ele is about his sr on std.

UNVOTE: Black
VOTE: STD


Looks like I was wrong about their partner, but for now I think this is a good vote
VOTE: Elements

The scum reasons aren't really that convincing. For now
UNVOTE: Elements

VOTE: Elements

Also I am voting cat because of Element's weird hammer threat yesterday. In the moment I was concerned with writing stuff before being limmed, but now I realize that threat just doesn't make sense. Seems like scum anxious to get to 2v3.

When I look at what's happened today, I see Cat exploring and hunting scum, while Furtive's reads are set in stone. I just don't see town acting like Furtive at all. Together with the play from HS and Freedom I am quite certain that I should
VOTE: Furtive

[Human]

Probably because his approach was "Aureal's reasoning is dumb" and not " let's throw this random guy under the bus since they are suspected with me"

[catboi]

sorry, my brain is not in mafia mode on sundays, I'll catch up tomorrow

[Human]

Let's do a hypothetical since solves are clear what if the game suddenly turned nightless you flip catboi; town you flip me; town who do you flip next?

[Black]

Let's do a hypothetical since solves are clear what if the game suddenly turned nightless you flip catboi; town you flip me; town who do you flip next?

I'd have to reread the game and decide which bus was more likely between Aureal and furtive

[Black]

I just did a quick skim over both iso's and it could go either way. Furtive seemed more sure in Weuler's alignment in almost a guaranteed kinda way. It sorta gives me informed vibes in way that Aureal's stance on Weuler doesn't. Her progression on him ebbs and flows and feels more natural

[furtiveglance]

Weuler/Catboi (Elements): A gruesome twosome

Spoiler: RVS vote, fluffposting

VOTE: Elements for trying to pocket me

unless the reaction that is being tested is to you saying you are reaction testing...

Now you ruined the second-order reaction test

Weuler, can I persuade you to VOTE: Taly?

I prefer to vote for people who have made a post

Could also just be town

Is there anything in this game that doesn't have multiple interpretations?

Spoiler: complex read on Elements

I'm not really sure what's going on with elements. I didn't get this chaotic impression from 2108

This just seems weird both from a town!!elements and a scum!!elements (note the double negation @Aureal) perspective

I'm not really sure what's going on with elements. I didn't get this chaotic impression from 2108

You didn't?

No I got a more authorative "town leader" impression

Spoiler: Elements in POE but votes STD

I want to UNVOTE: for now because I think after Elements vote on herself she's at e-2. Discussion is picking up and I don't think the Day should end yet

Do you think elements might get quickhammered? The ele wagon just started

No, but I don't get it. What are you two trying to pressure me to do?

Are you asking if votes have a purpose other than for limming?

You want to lim Black over StD or Freedom?

That remains to be seen, there is still lots of daytime left

If we had to lim right now, who would you want it to be?

One of STD, You, Arko or Black. Do you want me to specify further?

Definitely not Arko because he's being prodded. I need to look into STD more. So right now, you or Black. Probably you, because I did not at all like your chaotic acting earlier, followed by what I perceived to be a sudden drop in activity

Give StD another read through and tell me how any of it is town

Yep, that is one odd iso. Started out with some reads and then decided to hyperfocus on you. Could a townie do this? Perhaps if they are convinced you are scum, but then I don't see why they aren't trying to push harder in that case.

Also and mostly because I'm town

Ah your argument was just a townslip, I see

I think both Elements and STD are good targets for elimination. Let's see how serious Ele is about his sr on std.
UNVOTE: Black
VOTE: STD

Spoiler: Asking Elements' opinion on other players despite 'scumreading' them

I think both Elements and STD are good targets for elimination. Let's see how serious Ele is about his sr on std.
UNVOTE: Black
VOTE: STD

VOTE: freedom

Not that serious I guess

I was waiting for you to say this

Well, there you go. What made you go from not seeing any way that STD is town, to voting someone else?

I think the scum team is StD Freedom
I hadn't moved my vote in a while so I thought I'd move it

Are they the scum team by virtue of both being the scummiest, or by the interaction between them together with scumminess?

VOTE: Human

Do you think Human has similar vibes to Cactus had?

Do you?

VOTE: Human

Do you think Human has similar vibes to Cactus had?

Do you?

I can see similarities to day 2 cactus but I am wondering if it's because both their pfps are green

Ah I never got to experience d2 cactus thanks to certain people
I don't find d1 cactus and human to be alike at all

Spoiler: Elements now Weuler's top scumread but no vote to back it up

@Elements, Freedom's and STD's iso gives me similar vibes. I note that in my earlier games, the two scum players have given off quite different vibes

I really liked my conversation with STD from yesterday (i.e. 12 hours ago). His responses didn't feel artificial. My highest scumreads are still Elements/STD but STD is now second on that list

Spoiler: Weirdly explained progression here

My plan was to go after Elements if STD flips red, but I'm not sure how to interpret the Elements hammer

Looks like I was wrong about their partner, but for now I think this is a good vote
VOTE: Elements

Now to make sense of Element's hammer

A brief analysis of the hammer:

TownElements: She said she would rather get STD than me, so from that perspective the hammer isn't too weird. Especially if she was thinking that Human might move away his vote.

ScumElements: One reason for not hammering me instead of STD is that I was also pushing the STD wagon. Hence, STD flipping green would mean that I would be the prime suspect D2. On the other hand, if she hammered me, then this would not really implicate STD, so a hammer on STD could be a way to get 2 townlims with a high probability.

NAI analysis: My read of elements is that she is the type of player that prefers to drop the hammer herself. Then if she suspects both me and STD, hammering STD could be nicer than letting Meg hammer me.

The scum reasons aren't really that convincing. For now
UNVOTE: Elements
This is only for the hammer though. I might change my mind when I read through her iso again, I recall there being quite a few things I didn't like

Spoiler: alert: Elements did not hammer

claim or I hammer

I am VT

Spoiler: classic distancing

If you flip me, then head for Elements next. Preferably after a longer day, where you can try to find his partner.

Spoiler: excuse for not voting Elements

If you flip me, then head for Elements next. Preferably after a longer day, where you can try to find his partner.

Why aren't you voting for Elements? And why are they your main suspect?

They were my biggest suspect D1. I am not voting because I didn't anticipate that the day would possibly end so fast, and I still need time to sit down and look at ISO:s. Probably not something I will have time to do today either

Spoiler: weirdly explained progression part 2

VOTE: Elements

Also I am voting cat because of Element's weird hammer threat yesterday. In the moment I was concerned with writing stuff before being limmed, but now I realize that threat just doesn't make sense. Seems like scum anxious to get to 2v3.

Cat feels more towny than elements, but I'm wary about replacements to suspected slots, as it seems like replacing in has a tendency to clear any slot.

I think Cat's analysis comes from a town perspective. I scumread the slot initially because Elements was acting very chaotically, but looking back at 2108 I could see this being town. The vote on me is still weird, but we won't get an explanation of that now. And possibly it might have to do with Element's "nonfunctional mafia brain" as she described it herself, especially considering the relatively quick replacement.

When I look at what's happened today, I see Cat exploring and hunting scum, while Furtive's reads are set in stone. I just don't see town acting like Furtive at all. Together with the play from HS and Freedom I am quite certain that I should
VOTE: Furtive

[furtiveglance]

^This slot cannot endgame. Vote with me today.

[Human]

The conversation is not strong right now an I don't know if anyone will hammer so
VOTE: Catboi

[Black]

I like the analysis and I'm ok with flipping cat or human today. I'd rather wait to see if Aureal has anything to add before hammering

[Aureal]

I did note that Weuler stayed on Save the Dragons for the rest of the day after voting there, despite also scumreading Elements. However, I think this can also have the alternate explanation that Weuler wanted to later push Elements for the bad wagon.

Consider the vote count here. Weuler has just decided that Python's push on Black is going nowhere and moved to join Elements in targeting Save the Dragons. They are now the only two on that wagon, and the only wagon with two people. Does scum really move to join their scum partner's vote here, trying to get a wagon going all on their own rather than hitch to a townie? Or is that why we think Elements bailed to vote Freedom all on her own shortly afterward, in a "wat u doin Weuler, this is bad scumplay" move?

[furtiveglance]

My mind is made up

[Black]

I did note that Weuler stayed on Save the Dragons for the rest of the day after voting there, despite also scumreading Elements. However, I think this can also have the alternate explanation that Weuler wanted to later push Elements for the bad wagon.

Consider the vote count here. Weuler has just decided that Python's push on Black is going nowhere and moved to join Elements in targeting Save the Dragons. They are now the only two on that wagon, and the only wagon with two people. Does scum really move to join their scum partner's vote here, trying to get a wagon going all on their own rather than hitch to a townie? Or is that why we think Elements bailed to vote Freedom all on her own shortly afterward, in a "wat u doin Weuler, this is bad scumplay" move?

Trying to figure out why wolves do what they do is the hardest part of this game for me. In this case though you have a good explanation for how wolves would pivot if they did make the mistake of voting together. We would just have to assume they would make that mistake to begin with. If Weuler is newscum then it doesn't seem that crazy of an assumption

[Aureal]

I dunno, the more I read Elements and Weuler the more I feel like they wouldn't be partnered. Weuler's dry comment about Elements not being very serious with the vote on Dragons reads more like actual annoyance that he made a move to support her bad wagon and she went flittering off to something else and left him holding the bag. Maybe I just sympathize too much since I've experienced that feeling of suddenly Elements is doing something totally different instead of what I thought she wanted to do.

On the other hand, what's catboi up to?

Let's do a hypothetical since solves are clear what if the game suddenly turned nightless you flip catboi; town you flip me; town who do you flip next?

And what's with this weird stuff? Seems like trying to make sure people are thinking of others beyond him so he still has a chance in ELO.

[furtiveglance]

I think Human is just weirdchamp town at this point