Open 873: PYP: Anime Music & Memes - Game Over!

[GreyICE]

Whopper Whopper double Whopper

vote scum and you'll win a whopper

Vote Notscience

BK, kill it with fire.

[GreyICE]

This game is interfering with my football watching. Everyone tell my wife to be quiet and make me a sandwich.

Also some people are scum. Vote for them.

[GreyICE]

Vote: Josh Johnson

Definitely not a real QB

[GreyICE]

God am I supposed to read this game and shit? It’s 20 pages long and a bunch of furries in zebra outfits are harassing grown men and making me watch.

Someone give me a good vote and a halfway decent reason. Not you LLD.

[GreyICE]

God am I supposed to read this game and shit? It’s 20 pages long and a bunch of furries in zebra outfits are harassing grown men and making me watch.

Someone give me a good vote and a halfway decent reason. Not you LLD.

vote ydrasse, her vibes are off

Tempting, but I really don't feel like voting town today. Maybe tomorrow. Today I'm gonna vote for scum.

Vote: Unwnd

This vote makes me quite sad. Reading the last twenty pages, I rather like you. Unfortunately, you gotta play with the role PM the mod sent you.

Tell Dunnstral in the scum PT that he could at least put in 2/10 tryhard and maybe avert a crippling lunch on a much better scum player by not looking like the most obvious bus of all time.

[GreyICE]

Nothing

This is Bloodstained only the abridged version

You can ignore me.

But I don't go away

[GreyICE]

It's all documented where I think you wouldn't let yourself play so sloppily as scum

I maintain that

Oh but no unwnd. You killed yourself because you are a very logical person.

Little bit different readlist but I'm piecing shit together

Bell/Notty
--
Ceph
Peta
--
Marci
KT
LLD
GreyICE (complete fucking null)
Ydra (The line about marci coaching is hmmmery)
Taly
StD
--
Dunnstral
Lukewarm

Can you see it I wonder? Mmmm. Small oopsies.

[GreyICE]

It's all documented where I think you wouldn't let yourself play so sloppily as scum

I maintain that

Oh but no unwnd. You killed yourself because you are a very logical person.

Little bit different readlist but I'm piecing shit together

Bell/Notty
--
Ceph
Peta
--
Marci
KT
LLD
GreyICE (complete fucking null)
Ydra (The line about marci coaching is hmmmery)
Taly
StD
--
Dunnstral
Lukewarm

Can you see it I wonder? Mmmm. Small oopsies.

You believe that I am criticizing my wagon in relation to my reads which (besides you) are all nearing the bottom

Oh no. I'm criticizing that when you made this list you forgot the central mechanic of the game. This is, after all, PYP.

Now I'm not going to expect a shoot-from-the-hip dgaf player to remember how the game works, but analytical players always do. Faking analysis though, well, there's a lot of interaction, and you can smell the Lukewarm wagon, but Dunnstral just isn't doing anything. So he has to slide down. And of course for a second you forgot it was PYP when you put it together.

I bet notscience sees it now. If you don't, check the #4 bear~

[GreyICE]

What the fuck is a number four bear bc I’m still confused what I’m missing exactly

It's the #4 post from our good friend Pookie of course!



Now if you're absolutely convinced, in your heart of hearts, that Lukewarm is scum, like sure of it... well... did Lukewarm and Dunnstral look at themselves on the scum team and hatch up the plan in the scum PT together of "hey, we can be so town that we can dodge all the power roles and ride out the game on the strength of a 'both pick 3' gambit?"

So you should have Dunnstral as pretty obvious town. Or be engaging with Dunstral to find their alignment. Or hell, trying to poke Dunnstral to figure out what they hey hey is going on, because for this entire game, Lukewarm and Dunnstral are tied together in a very intimate way depending on how you think both of them think and their logic about the game.

Hey do you know how many posts Unwnd has directed to Dunnstral? Zero! Outside of the RVS vote.

[GreyICE]

i feel like in a recent pyp scum picked same numbers
i might be hallucinating

They could of course. Hoopla pulled that gambit in the first PYP I played in, and I called it out (to famously mixed results). But the thing is, they have to think "I'm the sort of player that can benefit more from the town cred if the other half dies than getting good PRs."

And man, there's some PRs I wouldn't want to dodge in here. Cop? Oof. Even ascetic is no bueno. And there's a universal backup if you happen to find the ascetic cop early. Jailkeeper, doctor, etc. Not the weakest roles I've ever seen.

But more to the point, Unwnd would interrogate that. Unless of course they're focused on the Lukewarm wagon, and bumped Dunnstral down at the last second because they needed a second scumread

[GreyICE]

It's so hard to ignore when your scumbuddies are playing scummy. It's like this constant thorn in your side. Do you call them out? Hope they improve? Try to pull a "you're frustrating but that's your playstyle"? Dump them on the bottom of the reads list and not say much? Where to put your buddies in your reads list is always the last thing you do unless you have a specific plan, and it's hard to make a specific plan with people not posting.

Yes, I do rather like this vote a lot.

And if you're focused so hard on finding town instead of finding scum, and are convinced that at least one of Luke and Dunn are town... well, man that might be a 50/50, but if my vote was floating in that region I'd at least be interested in chatting with Dunn quite a bit.

[GreyICE]

i'm fairly sure in the ensuing decade+ of this setup being run scum have never doubled up, not once. letting town get first shot at the strong PRs is too risky. Was the same when I drafted as scum - we discussed it but chickened out.

now, that being said, let me interrogate your view here - you say unwnd is scum for not paying attention to the draft numbers when he was forming his reads list and putting together two players who can't be scum. what make you certain scum is unlikely to think about/care about such things, as opposed to town who is simply going by feels on day 1 and not thinking about guessing the exact team? maybe he wasn't even paying attention to the numbers. in my experience i feel like town is a lot more likely to be careless about those things and make reads in a free association way, where scum are going to be more concerned with making sure everything makes 'sense' from a draft logic pov

I think town is looking to solve game. I think they're going to use what tools they have. Sure, some people don't give a shit. Does that strike you as Uwnwd? As scum you have to fake that. Not telling you much if I tell you scum know all the townies, right? You can't legitimately scumhunt, you have to fake it. All of that is about fitting in. And moving a few names around because it "looks wrong" or "I wouldn't be townreading that person" is common.

Do I see Uwnwd trying to solve the game? No. Do I see them trying to look like they're trying to solve the game? Yes.

Do I buy your logic that scum are better town than town? Nah bro. People have thought processes, and you can work through what they are. And Uwnwd hasn't talked to Dunnstral once, yet has them as their second scummiest person, when they should be looking to find a firm town read in those two (what they say they care about?)

This is a good vote. Come. Join in.

[GreyICE]

Ah.

Do you think that at this point in the game that Unwnd would be thinking of his scum reads in terms of how they mesh together as a team?

Off of vague 'interactions'? That's real hard to do. Off of mechanical stuff like picking the same number? That's much firmer. Again, I'd go so far as to say that I'd prefer to eliminate someone who picked a double number this round (well aware that's me too). That's how important it is, it's as far as to narrow my potential pool of people I'm interested in down to 8. Which I'm aware eliminates Uwnwd from my pool, but dayum I do not like them.

Bah. I should listen to myself even when I hate myself.

Do you know how many people have said this man is scummy without him accumulating a single vote?

Vote: Dunnstral

Jesus christ he's so meh I'd expect scum to be fishing around for a mislunch on him if he were town. And there's a beautiful bit of wifom for you but SERIOUSLY

Pedit: Marci is derp. No desire to kill tracker day 1. No desire to ever kill the number 1 overall pick day 1, that's scum's job. You'd care day 3 if they're still alive or something. Jesus christ Marci if you're town, there'll be words.

[GreyICE]

I'm here, I'm here dammit. I'll post. I've had a few deadlines.

[GreyICE]

Hypothetical guilty on Dunnstral.

Vote: Dunnstral

Hypocop go.

[GreyICE]

On the off chance ffery replaces in I have 1 so far

Apparently not one of what I thought you had!

Here, I'll make things easy for you. I have a cop guilty on Dunnstral. Vote.

[GreyICE]

Let her catch up first then we’ll chat

Come on man, there's a cop guilty. Vote.

[GreyICE]

what did i even do in the first 10 pages

you petapandered to the thread

We've been punished for our sins

[GreyICE]

LLD sitting here like "shit, don't make me play another solo scum game because my partners were all dead by the end of day 3."

[GreyICE]

Exclusive look inside the scum thread:

Dunnstral:

Shiiiiiiitt... this cop guilty thing has to be fake, right?

Uwnwd

: God I don't know, I tryharded day 1 and now I'm burnt out.

LLD:

Come on, hang in there, don't make me go solo Did I tell you about all the scum games I won solo? Because I won a bunch of games solo. But it stresses me out. I'll just troll the thread, everyone's ignoring it so far.

Dunnstral

lol I think the guilty isn't real although shit I wouldn't be surprised if the cop investigated me. Damn it, I'll just keep posting the way I have, maybe they'll be so apathetic they won't care.

Uwnwd:

I'm going to pretend to be demotivated in the thread because playing scum is demotivating for me. If someone calls me out on this I'll get angry because I'm really honestly demotivated... from the red role PM I got.

[GreyICE]

I don't feel demotivated at all

Trying to work yourself up for another day of chainsawing for Dunnstral?

Not gonna happen today.

[GreyICE]

Oh no don't get it twisted, Dunnstral fits in those 4 I talked about

You make the noises, but I see no vote.

Lots of mouth, no money gets you hanged day 3.

[GreyICE]

GI I’m very interested in what you’re seeing about LLD

I'm very interested in why you're not voting Dunnstral.

[GreyICE]

Like. If you want to vote Dunnstral. I will have all sorts of explanations and reads forthcoming.

But if you want to ignore my vote and sit on the fence and try to figure out if the hypocop is an actual cop guilty or if I'm just good enough to fake it on scum, well that's a different proposition.

[GreyICE]

VOTE: dunn

Yay!

The answer is why kill Cephrir? He's a very safe kill. Probably read as town, but wasn't particularly pushing wagons hard. He'd more or less claimed his role and it wasn't a great one given the outcome of day 1. It's just a very 'lets not rock the boat' kill, and LLD probably wouldn't want to rock this boat. Even if Dunn is scum and dies today, I can't see that being a big deal for the scum team.

It's a very LLD shot. Plus, like, she's hard to read and I don't have a cop guilty on her so I have to actually do that whole "reading her" thing.

[GreyICE]

GreyIce is hiding behind hypo claims and doesn't have any opinions other than me and unwnd being mafia

Awwwww booo hooo, it's so unfair when the moderator sends me your alignment.

Scumplain more

[GreyICE]

Yeah so.

It's all unproven but I maintain what I said about StD/Dunn having one scum. GI's hypo cop is it's own process. There's no amount of formulative play that answers for everything. I don't see the benefit in just following procedure with unknown variables at play. You also can't really quantify intuition and feelings as well. That feeling of 'one scum between' persists even if GI is depicting a solution for us. I agree with the practicality of it but what if it fails?

I don't understand where you're not accounting for failure, GI.

What possibility of failure? I'm not depicting a solution to anything, I wanna eliminate mafia.

I honestly don't get what this post is trying to say.

[GreyICE]

Like solution

Step 1: Eliminate 3 mafia
Step 2: Win
Step 3: Make cookies

It's not really one of those hard problems.

[GreyICE]

You're pairing me with LLD/Dunn like it should follow procedure when we (or if) we eliminate Dunn?

If your results are real you're helping us win and good for you. If they're not then you can always say you were taking a gamble and it didn't pan out.

Yes, yes, I could have hard information. And if I don't, anyone we vote to eliminate without hard information is a gamble. Would I just gamble and vote someone without actually having hard information... I mean don't we work past that in the newbie queue? Like wow, if you don't have hard information you still vote, because bad eliminations might lose you the game but no eliminations

will

lose you the game.

You've repeatedly said that you think Dunnstral is scummy, but now you're talking about the consequences of eliminating him? So is your plan to have him live to endgame even though you think he's scummy?

I understand you're going to say you're not partners with Dunnstral, and if you are town then it's actually true, but do you see why the rest of us might have a hard time believing that? Your logic is... scuffed.

[GreyICE]

Hey so, I agree with you but the tone you're taking will only result in heckles being raised and you'll get nothing from Unwnd this way.

I recognize you scumread me so my voice saying this may just raise your own paranoia alarms but... Unwnd is town. So I'd appreciate if you approached this in a manner that either let him prove that to you, or at least hang himself if you're really that convinced.

What part of my last post was aggressive or offensive? He makes no sense. He has the opportunity to explain himself, or better yet, change his behavior.

Actually, lets put aside uwnwd. You're not voting Dunnstral either. In fact... what the hell are you doing with it again?



Players without votes can write whatever they want, but they're not saying anything.

[GreyICE]

Pressure, sure. This can be a pressure elimination.

I don't really care, the vote mechanically works the same however we get it.

[GreyICE]

People really feel pressured to be more honest after the moderator flips them.

[GreyICE]

Honestly, why the flying fuck haven't you guys done this.

Marci, full claim tracker result

If your claim contradicts what someone else did at night then we get two scums.

Other than that, I have some very serious thoughts for this town. Not Dunnstral, he's playing to his win condition, but the rest of y'all need some serious methodology.

[GreyICE]

We're smart people.

There has to be scum between Dunn/StD/Marci.

Right? ..Right?

I mean I'm cheating because I know for a fact you're right. But if you want #2, I'd lean more STD.

I'm starting to wonder if you're just sloppy. How am I the first person to demand Marci's tracker result (and I will pitch a fit till I get it). Tracker is a role that's impossible to fake. If she did pick the Jailkeeper side of it, then there's every chance she could claim a tracker result on someone with a PR and get into a role 1v1, or be forced to fakeclaim a result on her scumbuddy for safety (which tells us a lot if she flips). If you're howling for her blood, you should pitch a fit for it. Instead even Marci says no one gives a fuck.

I've got a red result in my inbox and I'm living in a tunnel, I should not be the first person in the thread to note this obvious fucking fact.

[GreyICE]

Hey, I did ask.

But I would like to selfishly continue to claim that I need a methodology and accept the criticism anyway.

Like cop is easy for scum to fakeclaim. "I'm super cop. X is town. Y is town. Z is town. Look I know because they're not in the scum PT with me".

Tracker fakies tend to blow themselves up. Like "oh gee, I tracked Bell, he went nowhere." Bell: "I'm actually the mason recruiting doublevote granter, I did go somewhere last night." Instant 1v1. Now she could actually have picked the tracker... but that means sacrificing the Jailkeeper side, which is the much stronger side for scum.

Now she could have chatted with the scumteam and worked out the perfect fakey to fool all of us. Then futzed around and decided "eh, fuck claiming that thing we worked on, idgaf." Alternatively she went "eh guys, I'll just wing the tracker thing tomorrow, idgaf."

Or it's just town pissy no one is paying attention to them. I mean I know what I'd put money on.

[GreyICE]

Marci is just there because I see people still want marci dead (Peta, et al). I don't know what marci is up to but I've seen her come in here saying that we don't care about her reads and then someone will say 'Yeah Marci, we actually do' then she leaves. I have to ask myself if I want that type of play to be anywhere near the top-half of a readlist.

As far as her claim goes? I believe someone said that outing her result gives scum a lead on other PRs because she claimed her target didn't visit anyone.

If you actually think she's scum, then there's two possibilities:

- She's actually the Tracker at which point

scum know the fucking results

- She has to fakeclaim, meaning she either fakeclaims a target on a scumbuddy, or risks fucking it up.

Or you could think she's town. Do you think she's town?

[GreyICE]

Pray tell how the first point is absolutely true? Let's say she's real. If her check is on

1) A member who didn't submit a kill
2) A vanilla townie who doesn't have an ability

Then that's basically nothing gained.

I see where you're coming from though in regards to if she's scum though. If I were to be blunt, I feel indifferent. She's not town on my list and she's a lim candidate so she's there with the other two

There's three whole targeting roles left alive that could have submitted a night action last night. (Doctor, Ascetic Cop, Draft Cop) If she's picking someone scummy who is middle/end of the pack (because none of the investigative roles are targeting the top 4, where scum are going to be shooting), what are scum going to potentially learn? Lukewarm/Fferlyt doesn't have one of those three roles? Gee. I bet they'd have never guessed.

Chances are it's useless, but there's a reason there's a methodology to these things. If she does make a "likely guess" and it turns out to be wrong, she's caught scum. That makes your win percentage go up slightly.

Frankly I think Marci is salty we're not taking her awesome power role seriously. That stinks of town to me. But hey, I'll take the few percentage chance I'm wrong and she mucks up a fakeclaim.

As for Hypocops, we should have a long talk in the postgame about why they're very bad and you should have never fallen for Dunn's gambit.

[GreyICE]

Marci is just there because I see people still want marci dead (Peta, et al). I don't know what marci is up to but I've seen her come in here saying that we don't care about her reads and then someone will say 'Yeah Marci, we actually do' then she leaves. I have to ask myself if I want that type of play to be anywhere near the top-half of a readlist.

As far as her claim goes? I believe someone said that outing her result gives scum a lead on other PRs because she claimed her target didn't visit anyone.

If you actually think she's scum, then there's two possibilities:

- She's actually the Tracker at which point

scum know the fucking results

- She has to fakeclaim, meaning she either fakeclaims a target on a scumbuddy, or risks fucking it up.

Or you could think she's town. Do you think she's town?

no she can literally be a tracker who is still scum? what are you on about

...

I'm gonna assume it's very late where you are, and let you take a mulligan on that one.

[GreyICE]

Bolded - She's not really being cooperative. You assume this methodology follows someone who is paying attention and it's likely they're not. No disrespect to her on a personal level we're friends but yeah. I also don't think she really cares about her awesome role because a lot of her bemoaning comes from 'I'm not being listened to' which I think maybe half or more of the plist has said 'ok Marci, the floor is yours!'

And then no response

I mean she's playing poorly. But then we also have to consider that she's playing poorly. It'd be really poor play to want attention and then kind of have some half baked stuff and decide it's too much effort to do and kind of flake. But if I had a nickel for everyone flaky awful townie... I'd have enough nickels to throw at flaky awful townies.

Although I do have to consider that she apparently actually opened up another PYP game and read through it to decide what role to pick. Which, like, does Marci do that? Just go metaing the last PYP to see what role the scum liked best and take that one? And then show the same care and effort in her posts that the Unibomber did to his personal hygene?

That line feels really fed to her from the scum PT... fuck now you're talking me into this...

[GreyICE]

As for Hypocops, we should have a long talk in the postgame about why they're very bad and you should have never fallen for Dunn's gambit.

I wasn't the one who brought up hypocops lad

You'd be amazed how little you care about reading someone's posts when you know they're scum.

Or maybe you wouldn't, you have been here a while.

It's just like so goddamn boring.

[GreyICE]

Coaching would definitely happen in this plist but my grace with peta is that yeah

No doubt he'd be a complete saltmeister if marci was just doing this shit as partners. Peta went up for me because 1) he's here 2) he's posting reasonably 3) holding him in this odd paranoia state where ohh he could be snowing me is not doing me any favor. Like I have to trust the person putting the effort in and if they really feel that brazen to make a point to fool me then fuck it right? Marci is not doing anything and has chosen to be this way.

Like the idea of Marci actually going and looking up the other PYP game is so weird to me. Like it's kinda tryhard, but like it's not completely out of character.

I'm also aware that if I lower the grinding wheel a little, I'm gonna hit a "danger: fragile" label. Ffffffffffff

Buuuut you've talked me into putting her in the "I'm not comfortable with this" category. Or I've talked myself because gee this is weird. I'm half tempted to meta her game to see if she ever has metaed mechanics like that before. Then obviously punch myself in the face for using meta like that.

I think peta is p. town. I mean I could be fucking wrong on that one. The idea all the 5s are town is just depressing, but which one do we flip? I like Notscience, I'd never flip him. Peta seems good. Taly? Ehhhh... I don't feel this strong urge to flip Taly. Maybe she's the worst of the fives? Maybe town really liked fives this game?

Pedit: thanks!

[GreyICE]

Hmmm. Hasn't been on site since the 4th. Had other active mafia games replaced out of. Gonna say that's a null tell.

Still.

[GreyICE]

There's a special mechanic, you're in a PT with two other players. Taly wouldn't confirm who they were so we need you to tell us.

[GreyICE]

Yes, yes, I'm here.

What is this?


Anyway, will read and post, I was having an enjoying weekend until mafia pulled me back in. Getting drunk with my wife, moving her stuff around, watching bad TV, playing bad board games, then the mafia squad arrived.

[GreyICE]

when these wagons end up t v t and all wolves off wagon

not voting [4]:
fferyllt, marcistar, RH9, notscience,

Specifically which of these do you have a problem with?

I don't disagree with the general thrust, but this post is a little shade cast-y

[GreyICE]

Also i have played PYP like 3 times now, and i still refuse to try to understand the setup.
theres like a draft and shit. Beyond that i don't care all this role and setup talk in this game type always makes me turn of brain.

It doesn't seem like a complex setup but i dislike the design of it so i refuse to understand it.

"PYP setup" is a subset of everything, a category also labeled "things you do not understand" so it makes you angry.

This is more or less correct.

[GreyICE]

when these wagons end up t v t and all wolves off wagon

not voting [4]:
fferyllt, marcistar, RH9, notscience,

Specifically which of these do you have a problem with?

I don't disagree with the general thrust, but this post is a little shade cast-y

at that point in time it was ffery/marci/rh9. of those the only slot i'm interested voting now is the rh9 slot.

So Taly/RH9 is the only one of those you even think might be scum, but "all the wolves off the wagon"?

Where does this Taly hate even come from? As far as I can tell you've been back and forth on Taly all of day 1, going from voting to this:

zz
don't track taly/notscience/bell

Like... what

[GreyICE]

"PYP setup" is a subset of everything, a category also labeled "things you do not understand" so it makes you angry.

see you haven't changed

My opinion about you? If you demonstrate an IQ above room temperature I'll swallow my hat in shock.

And I'm using SI units.

[GreyICE]

Honestly it doesn't really matter to me. I'm kinda neutral on the existence of Bozo the clown, but that doesn't mean I want him to put on a show in my mafia game.

[GreyICE]

Honestly you're in a slot that hasn't posted since 2/4 so I'd be remiss if I didn't pay some attention to you
Like RH9 hi/bye was not very good which you can't do anything about
But it doesn't mean we forget it either

But mostly I want to talk to ydrasse
Also making fun of you brings back all the warm memories I have of drowning a bag of kittens in a river
It's kind of nostalgic

[GreyICE]

Man I'm sure you've seen some of the few times I've gotten pissed on mafiascum

Like mostly when Fate was involved because jesus christ getting Fate lynched was a dog and a half. Waaaay too emotionally invested in that crap.

All the rest of the time I'm just a prickly ball of loving sunshine.

[GreyICE]

I've gotten 100% better at reading her. To the point where we once started a round of Spyfall and I announced we all had to vote her out because she was the spy after the first question. And made it happen too.

Unfortunately all of that is from in person experience, and does not translate well to forum mafia. So I kind of think she's maybe town, but I wouldn't put any stock in that shitty read.

Like I probably should have used my cop investigation on her, but here I am wasting it on Dunnstral like a shitter.

[GreyICE]

that comes across as mean regardless but ... yeah >.>

More like I'm not sure how marci's tracker information changes that much on Taly/Fire.

Were it to come out Marci is scum it makes Taly/Fire more likely to be scum, marginally, but really it just makes Marci more likely to be scum by a lot. Like if I had to guess players without PRs:



That'd probably be a pretty fucking safe guess.

[GreyICE]

Marci's result is on Ydrasse; not on Taly slot

Oh one up. My bad. Does not really change anything, but thanks for the heads up scum-buddy

[GreyICE]

Yay! A win! My contributions were definitely vital to this.

Last player on the list to get a PR at least, and none of them were missed, so I did successfully guess the last one to be picked!