Weird Dreams Mafia I [Gone]

[Doctor Drew]

TL, can you elaborate on what exactly led you to town read me in AbLoaf?

[Ranger]

Spoiler: side-tangent:

Since Porkens brought up the ease of my style I'll note he's not wrong, my readslist style is explicitly something I designed to make games easier on myself. It's easy for me to track my thoughts as town or to fake thoughts as scum. It's faster. It saves brainpower, it saves time, it saves effort, it makes things faster, easier, and more efficient. I adapted the style for blitz games with 48-hour days after having burned myself out from trying too hard and needing to go casual.

So when I came to mafiascum with the style, I maintained those casual vibes. By my nature I try too hard regardless of my alignment, but a casual posting style makes my tryharding be less stressful. Thoroughly recommend minimalism if you're feeling burnout. I could play 5-8 games with this style, whereas a different style would risk burnout with 3 or fewer.

[DragonEater70]

I have a towncore of DE, TL, kyoko kirigiri and MT atm.

I like this as a towncore, honestly.

Newbie question alert:

Is talking too much about a towncore/townbloc anti-town?

[Porkens]

Ranger’s posts reek scum. The posting method they are following is super easy to do as scum.

Weirdly, I get very strong scum pings of your posts being precisely this.

I'm looking and I can see your posts being either alignment, so I can see how you'd reach this conclusion as town, but it feels like you are doing a super-easy to do style as scum.

{Doctor Drew, Botanical Rat, Empathice, TemporalLich, DragonEater70}
{KawaiiKame, Kyoko Kirigiri}
{Gimli, Flea The Magician}
{Save The Dragons}
{imaginality, Enchant}
{Clone}
{Porkens}
{Morning Tweet}
{MegAzumarill}

I know you are but what am I? Adding OMGUS to your list of crimes.

[Porkens]

Spoiler: side-tangent:

Since Porkens brought up the ease of my style I'll note he's not wrong, my readslist style is explicitly something I designed to make games easier on myself. It's easy for me to track my thoughts as town or to fake thoughts as scum. It's faster. It saves brainpower, it saves time, it saves effort, it makes things faster, easier, and more efficient. I adapted the style for blitz games with 48-hour days after having burned myself out from trying too hard and needing to go casual.

So when I came to mafiascum with the style, I maintained those casual vibes. By my nature I try too hard regardless of my alignment, but a casual posting style makes my tryharding be less stressful. Thoroughly recommend minimalism if you're feeling burnout. I could play 5-8 games with this style, whereas a different style would risk burnout with 3 or fewer.

over defensive and over explanatory. my vote stays.

[DragonEater70]

Ranger’s posts reek scum. The posting method they are following is super easy to do as scum.

Weirdly, I get very strong scum pings of your posts being precisely this.

I'm looking and I can see your posts being either alignment, so I can see how you'd reach this conclusion as town, but it feels like you are doing a super-easy to do style as scum.

{Doctor Drew, Botanical Rat, Empathice, TemporalLich, DragonEater70}
{KawaiiKame, Kyoko Kirigiri}
{Gimli, Flea The Magician}
{Save The Dragons}
{imaginality, Enchant}
{Clone}
{Porkens}
{Morning Tweet}
{MegAzumarill}

Agreed

[TemporalLich]

TL, can you elaborate on what exactly led you to town read me in AbLoaf?

your posts had an obvtown vibe to them, you seemed pretty solvey, also we were neighbors that game and I had no reason to believe you were scum and reason to believe you were town

Newbie question alert:

Is talking too much about a towncore/townbloc anti-town?

idk... if it comes at the expense of having any scumreads than definitely

[DragonEater70]

Ranger’s posts reek scum. The posting method they are following is super easy to do as scum.

Weirdly, I get very strong scum pings of your posts being precisely this.

I'm looking and I can see your posts being either alignment, so I can see how you'd reach this conclusion as town, but it feels like you are doing a super-easy to do style as scum.

{Doctor Drew, Botanical Rat, Empathice, TemporalLich, DragonEater70}
{KawaiiKame, Kyoko Kirigiri}
{Gimli, Flea The Magician}
{Save The Dragons}
{imaginality, Enchant}
{Clone}
{Porkens}
{Morning Tweet}
{MegAzumarill}

I know you are but what am I? Adding OMGUS to your list of crimes.

Spoiler: side-tangent:

Since Porkens brought up the ease of my style I'll note he's not wrong, my readslist style is explicitly something I designed to make games easier on myself. It's easy for me to track my thoughts as town or to fake thoughts as scum. It's faster. It saves brainpower, it saves time, it saves effort, it makes things faster, easier, and more efficient. I adapted the style for blitz games with 48-hour days after having burned myself out from trying too hard and needing to go casual.

So when I came to mafiascum with the style, I maintained those casual vibes. By my nature I try too hard regardless of my alignment, but a casual posting style makes my tryharding be less stressful. Thoroughly recommend minimalism if you're feeling burnout. I could play 5-8 games with this style, whereas a different style would risk burnout with 3 or fewer.

over defensive and over explanatory. my vote stays.

Commenting on what's been happening here recently:
Both of these posts feel they

could

come from town in their content, but are a bit scumsided in tone. Overall ambivalent here.

I do want to note though that Ranger's constant use of readlists in NAI since she does it as both scum and town, so if we want to analyze her we should look at her other content. For me, it's a (rather weak) townlean on Ranger based on the non-readlist content.

[DragonEater70]

Actually let me correct that, I'm scumleaning Porkens due to tone because honestly tone is more important than content for my reads.

[DragonEater70]

idk... if it comes at the expense of having any scumreads than definitely

Well that's definitely not my intent lol. In fact I think this is my cue to go back to ISO diving some players here.

[TemporalLich]

over defensive and over explanatory. my vote stays.

weird push (or outright scummy scum case, giving benefit of the doubt here)

Well that's definitely not my intent lol. In fact I think this is my cue to go back to ISO diving some players here.

good idea, iso diving is good for solving

[DragonEater70]

@Kyoko could you post your reads? You have done quite a lot of investigation and questioning and I'd like to know what your conclusions are based on this.

[Doctor Drew]

I will say, Porkens shares a bit of dna with me, come out swinging when replacing in.

And they have a bit of a shit posting ruffle the feathers posting style sometimes, also in my dna.

I don't love their entrance, but think it is NAI.

[Porkens]

Actually let me correct that, I'm scumleaning Porkens due to tone because honestly tone is more important than content for my reads.

Bandwagoning.

I will say, Porkens shares a bit of dna with me, come out swinging when replacing in.

And they have a bit of a shit posting ruffle the feathers posting style sometimes, also in my dna.

I don't love their entrance, but think it is NAI.

Town.

[Morning Tweet]

I have a towncore of DE, TL, kyoko kirigiri and MT atm.

I like this as a towncore, honestly.

Newbie question alert:

Is talking too much about a towncore/townbloc anti-town?

Why would it? Its another path to the same result. Finding town is art. you can solve many games just by finding the town and voting everyone else out.

I think youre probably getting at the risks associated with this kind of playstyle, though. Which is fair -- of course if scum is smart they will focus attention on getting put in the townbloc -- which could lessen the work they have to do "lining up suspects" -- they instead just need to play to "infiltrate the townblock" and just not be the least trustworthy

TBH putting the burden on scum to fool me into placing them into my trusted group, rather than taking a more hands-on, interrogation-style approach to search out suspects has always felt perfectly fine to me. I like playing this way. even moreso at the start of the game though

I think you're opening yourself to getting fooled in ways that you couldn't have before, since scum is now intentionally playing to get in your bloc in many cases, but im not sure it's necessarily making it harder for yourself. I think innocent people give off many signs that they're clueless and effortlessly, scum has to try pretty hard to mimic it. I just favour looking for genuine signals over fake ones

This is getting kind of wandered off. But your question definitely feels pertinent to the way i tend to play so theres my opinion

[Morning Tweet]

Ranger’s posts reek scum. The posting method they are following is super easy to do as scum.

Right but like, kind of a moot point when Ranger always plays that way isn't it

[Morning Tweet]

Spoiler: Ranger

I'm curious why exactly I come across like im forcing a townread on Dragon to Ranger. And also prolly why Ranger has Enchant so low

DragonEater was not under severe pressure, and the push was one with a weak enough basis that focusing on it as you did seems unnatural. It was overblown. It was out of place. It wasn't something casually done, or done to make a point. It looked like you went out of your way to defend DragonEater, in a way I don't think town would be inclined to.

Enchant is so low because Enchant's contributions have looked strongly +scum to me. The reasons for defense of Enchant boil down to meta, but those meta defenses of Enchant seem lazy at best, disingenuous at worst. I don't think people being truly honest with themselves have conviction Enchant's contributions are definitively town. I can understand them

viewing

his posts as town. I can understand them having a surface-level take on Enchant which they don't bother to dig deeper on at this stage.

But from what I've seen, Enchant is not outside of his scum range, and his contributions have been suspect.

Why wouldn't I have him so low?

I can understand disagreeing with the meta but what has Enchant at the bottom of your possible suspects at the bottom of your reads since P4 onwards to present

Enchant's contributions have been forced in a way I feel is likely scum-indicative. I'm not seeing anything which looks remotely town from Enchant, and I see plenty which looks like scum. Given me not buying the meta defense, I've no reason to not have him that low as meta is his

only

defense for his play right now.

Idk i remember town!ranger also put me as scum in Gnosia, but tried to kill me more actively than that.

You hard-1v1d the cop who I fully believed to be the real cop, that made it much easier. :P
After your retraction I retracted my scumread there because you were no longer confscum.

Speaking of that game, you were scum there and your contributions here remind me of your contributions there, so...

I dont understand -- if DragonEater was not under severe pressure (From my recollection he wasnt), why do you propose I was forcing a towncase on him? I was just spewing my thoughts as per usual. Looking back at it, I was just responding to Drew's vote on Dragon which i disagreed with. I have no idea why you objected to that the way you did. It feels as random as can be, you could have said that about any other time i reply to someone about any read. But this feels like im treading down a path that leads nowhere

About Enchant.. that doesn't make sense. Why do you have him low? You didn't answer the question -- you just said "His contributions are suspect" and then asked me "Why wouldn't I have him so low". He's at the bottom of your reads, not the middle. I'm asking why you think he's the most suspect out of everyone

I see that you mention his contributions here remind you of another game, gnosia -- now we're cooking, in what way

I will admit I was townreading Enchant but after I reread after seeing you having him at the bottom, I concur that I do not have good reason to think he's town. I saw a dragons post and samebrained it and felt sure of it but yeah I can't actually tell the difference. I have no idea what Enchant is going after or if controlling the nightmare is his way of helping the town. He hasn't mentioned any reads. But I have him more as a sort of mysterious person of interest more than primary suspect at this stage of the investigation, you know?

[Morning Tweet]

That changes things, actually.

{Doctor Drew, Botanical Rat, Empathice, TemporalLich, DragonEater70}
{KawaiiKame, Kyoko Kirigiri}
{Gimli, Flea The Magician}
{Save The Dragons}
{imaginality, Enchant}
{Clone}
{Morning Tweet}
{MegAzumarill}

As I said, Enchant is reminding me of Gnosia so if he was town there... :P

Bruh

You're saying

What?

Everytime you and Enchant mention Gnosia i get confused. Are you saying that you mistakenly thought ENchant was scum but he was actually town i nthat so in reality this game matches with that game which must therefore be him town meta?? Did that seriously just happen?? Are these the onlyt two times you've played with Enchant?

I am confused

Fuck me too

[Enchant]

I played with Ranger two times.

Gnosia: Both town.
I made this setup in 2021(or something): Both Mafia, but different teams. We knew each other though.

[DragonEater70]

Okay I like MT's townspew just now.

Will ISO a few more players in a bit.

[Gimli]

I like porkens

[Gimli]

I also think flipping ranger works this gameday, with how heavily likely it is that her enchant read is fake scumsolving and not coming from townie places

[DragonEater70]

More ISO's!

I know ISOing someone with one post is a bit laughable but I thought might as well address it, since the entire point of doing the ISO's was to find out if scum is in the lurkers.

thought I had missed something for a minute, im not one to get notifications, anywhere

lets do this

VOTE: Vote: Dr. Drew

still don't trust you especially not with those eyes

Obviously an RVS post, but I am getting a slight scum vibe from saying "lets do this". Like this is what I would say in RVS if I were scum.
So verdict is slight scumlean, obviously need more posts.

[Flea The Magician]

I quite like dragon for town on a skim. Will look later when im done larping.

[DragonEater70]

Enchant ISO:

HURT: Enchant

Mmm power

NAI

VOTE: DragonEater

Bad vote even for RVS.

I agree.

HURT: Save The Dragons, KawaiiKame, Temporal Lich, Gimli, Empath, DragonEater

Btw Gimli I think is town because, from a mech standpoint, being hated only makes sense for town (basically makes ELo more dangerous) but doesn't work really with scum. Of course it could be a red herring though.
And nightmarin' myself because I'm conftown in my eyes.

I surprise you, but in most cases roles like these doesh't work in ELO so your logic are faulty.

This mech talk is not on the same level at all as in Gnosia and ABLOAF?
Still ig mech talk is aligning with Enchant's town meta.

It's obviously not RVS vote and even if is, it sucks.

It is RVS and it sucks.

I don't know who thinked that OMGUS is scummy and writed this on wiki (now people parrot this as universal scumread without thinking), but if someone thinks that selfvoting for PR is scummy, then they DESERVE the vote in response.

Feels townie tbh

Why i even trying.

This actually feels like scum!Enchant from mini 2289, and a bit of why I scumread them earlier.

If you were really scum you'd already know the answer to that question

pedit: I'm not seeing what you're seeing Empathice

So if i am scum i know answer and if i am town i don't know answer and you refuse to give me any. Because i am confirmed scum already and therefore not worth answering.

Makes sense. Now piss off.

I think this is possibly townie? I could see scum being frustrated here as well, but the frustration is actually geniune and I kinda get how Enchant feels here.

enchant very likely town

why do you townread enchant?

I don't really see how enchant could be towny especially since enchant has no reads other than scumreading dragoneater for voting enchant because enchant self nightmare voted

yeah that was a good post I think. scumreading dragoneater's RVS vote and whatnot, I agree it was a bad vote even for RVS. I think enchant feels engaged and happy with the game in a way that mirrors his town game well. but its early, I'm just strong townreading it atm.

I actually agree that it was a bad RVS vote but since when do you scumread ppl for bad RVS vote? At best Enchant's counter vote is another bad RVS vote.

Issue is i am bad player.

You should had knew better.

I think you are only a bad player when you scum, Enchant. You said a lot of stuff like this (about being a bad player) in Mini 2289 where you were scum, but in ABLOAF and Gnosia you were kinda contributing not too badly.

But I don't know if I should SR you based on the fact that you are contributing here and therefore I'm disagreeing with your assessment that you are a bad player.

I still think this is scum indicative specifically for Enchant, ig.

Idk i remember town!ranger also put me as scum in Gnosia, but tried to kill me more actively than that.

Feels actually solvey.

I am not convinced that Dragon is town

I would like to hear more from you about this read.

Verdict: ambivalent, I could read Enchant as both town or scum. Slightly leaning scum due to meta, but I think if they explain their reads more and engage the game this could easily change.