Micro 1073: Purgatory - Game Over!

[furtiveglance]

1.05

Votecount 1.05

Ranger (3):

Vanderscamp, Bloodb0t, Oclaxian Empire.

Arko (2):

Bellaphant, AurorusVox.

Oclaxian Empire (1):

Ranger.

Not Voting (3):

KawaiiKame, Aisa, Arko.

With 9 players alive, it takes 5 votes to condemn someone to the fiery pits of

hell

.

KawaiiKame did not pick up the prod and is being replaced. The phase deadline is now increased by 1 day to reflect this.

The phase deadline is in (expired on 2023-03-17 19:40:55).

[Aisa]

pagetop mine??

[Aisa]

Pagetop not mine but at least I know that the mod is reading my posts

I think if Ranger is scum their read on Arko is more likely to be scum defending a town than a partner.

I agree.

I also agree with this! and have reconsidered my earlier idea that Ranger could be scum with Arko.

Not really game relevant, but Vanders, if you're town I think watching out for TMI is a great thing to do, one of my favourite tells for sure. I have a separate, silly reason to TR Ranger though! And a non-silly reason, which is that I agree with their recent posting.

Spite-readslist would be,
{Arko, AurorusVox}
{Aisa}
{Bellaphant}
{KawaiiKame}
{Vanderscamp}
{BloodB0t}
{Oclaxian Empire}

...But I can't bring myself to actually commit to the spite. It's just not my thing.

So actual readslist would probably be closer to,

{AurorusVox}
{Aisa, Bellaphant}
{Arko}
{KawaiiKame, Vanderscamp}
{BloodB0t}
{Oclaxian Empire}

...The silly reason is that me and Bella got put into the same tier in the second readslist and I think that if I were scum I would just copy-paste my first readslist and only change what is necessary

[Vanderscamp]

@Vanders, I see you've answered my question, that's nice and answering this post feels like a very fair trade now!

[...]
As for Arko, I've vibed with them from the beginning. First page was just vibes of rvs + liking their mechtalk; the townread started in earnest from 26. Specifically,

Also- I'm betting now that one of the non-posters is a sinner. the other 2 are probably within this group of 7 though as you could probably obviously tell.

I loved this thought process.

I liked the engagement in 41.
I liked the sentiment of 43/48/61/65.
54 is an approach I feel comes from a town mindset.
The explanation of 69 is an approach which is nai, but the context of sharing it makes me lean town. (Someone explaining their philosophy is nai in of itself. The context behind explaining the philosophy can be ai, in this case, +town.)
I felt 118 was a good approach upon returning to the thread.
154 is not a scum post.

There's good reason Arko's my top townread.
Near as I can tell, there's no reason for Arko to be scum.

Yeahhhh you know what, these are good points. Arko gets my townread!

Are they good points?
Did you click on any of the posts that Ranger linked to see which posts they were talking about?

This is a genuine question, I'm interested in the answer to this.
I'm interested if you agreed with the reads on all of the individual posts, or just some of them.

I did click on the links! Most, not all, admittedly. It's in fact impossible to form an opinion on the case without clicking the links; you tell me if you can judge the words "54 is an approach I feel comes from a town mindset" without knowing what post 54 is.

I thought most of them were

great

points. I agreed about most of the things Ranger pointed out being town-indicative, and that's pretty rare. (The embarrassment I will go through if Arko turns out to be scum though! ) The bits I disagree with are 118 and 154, I can't decide whether they're town indicative or scum indicative yet, and though I haven't read the discussion about post 154 in detail yet, if Arko has contradicted himself a bit that's always a little worrying. Then again I don't think inconsistency is always scummy. We'll see.

This post actually sounds more real than Ranger's stuff, even though you're mostly saying the same stuff.

But even the fact that you're disagreeing with some of the points feels more genuine than Ranger's approach, which seems more like assuming Arko is town and working backwards.

[Aisa]

I keep considering rescinding my townread on you for getting into silly arguments with Ranger, but every time I see a towny post you made which makes me want to not rescind the townread, it's quite something!

[Aisa]

It's not because you're calling me real, noo, I'm totally not vulnerable to pockets

[Ranger]

Pretty null. Vaguely towny in tone

Hypocrite.

[Ranger]

Are you indeed saying that the

fact

the post was the

last one made before bed

makes it +town for you?

The timing makes it +town--so yes.

Does this assertion make any kind of sense I might be missing?

You can't tell me posts you make at the end of a day are identical to posts you make near the beginning.

There's multiple contributing factors on later posts.

Later posts are when someone is already tired.
Later posts are when someone is already exhausted.
Later posts come after burnout--both from the wear and tear of the day, and the wear and tear of a stressful mafia game.
Mental exhaustion builds up. The brain begins to shut down, from having overexerted itself. (My mind begins to melt whenever I spend longer than 15-30 mins on mafia.)
As scum this makes it easier to mess up.
As town this has a natural tendency to lead to something resembling drunkposting: less coherent, more stream of thought, more unfiltered and often containing things the player would not think to post earlier.

That's a near-universal experience for mafia players. Everyone who's played enough games knows the experience.

Scum players can mimic the town reaction, if in their mental exhaustion they think to.
Town do it without thinking. That's why it's +town. The timing and the content increase the odds it was town. It

could

be scum. Tone-wise it vibed as town to me.

@Ranger: Or were you just referring to the content of the last post being +town for you?

It was both.

[Ranger]

We'll see.

I agree it needs time.
I need to step away from the keyboard to give my brain time to recover, cool down, process, and consider things from the distance, and reflect. After that I'll have formed a better opinion.

(Right now I'm apparently stupid tho. I literally logged off and was done. I came back because who knows, I apparently like overstraining my mind by not letting it rest. :shrug: )

I think blood is quite towny, I agree with all of what they're saying.

It's quite easy to agree with someone who is saying all of the same things as you in the exact same way on the exact same players.

It's also a red flag.

That trait rarely has zero scum in the pairing.

[BloodB0t]

282 Makes sense but I think you're exagerating that it's

insanely

townie, you even admit that it can be faked "if they think to".

[Ranger]

which seems more like assuming Arko is town and working backwards.

Is this your issue???

That I'm assuming Arko is town and working backwards???

I thought I made it clear.

Everyone is town by default.

Yes

, I assume Arko is town, because I assume everyone is town initially.

My readslists are fluent and everyone starts at null.

But while everyone starts with a

read

of null, I still

assume

town.

I'm not sure how to explain that if you don't get the conceptual difference between assuming town and reading town and knowing town. The three are all separate ideas.

{AurorusVox, Aisa}
{Bellaphant}
{Arko, Vanderscamp}
{KawaiiKame}
{BloodB0t}
{Oclaxian Empire}

[furtiveglance]

Kowahbunga replaces KawaiiKame.

[Ranger]

I keep considering rescinding my townread on you for getting into silly arguments with Ranger, but every time I see a towny post you made which makes me want to not rescind the townread, it's quite something!

I'm largely of the same mind.

Vanderscamp's takes on me stretch credibility. I've been trying to sort them. I originally assumed wrong-town, then thought they might be scum, but now Vanderscamp's most recent posting has me back to thinking town.

It's one of the reasons I keep engaging with them. I keep on having my read on them be in flux, more than any slot in the game. I'd like to be able to lock them down (well, as much as locking down is possible given my readslists are always in flux; anything can trigger a change).

Positive from this is my townread has grown on you.

And actually thinking about it...

{Aisa}
{AurorusVox}
{Arko, Vanderscamp}
{Bellaphant}
{KawaiiKame, BloodB0t}
{Oclaxian Empire}

(I'm 50/50 on putting Vanderscamp on a tier between AurorusVox and Arko. Bellaphant demoted because lack of recent townness in my memory, may bump her back up after reviewing later.)

This is more accurate. BloodB0t's posts are better, but I still lean scum. Aisa vibes town harder than AurorusVox does.

[Kowahbunga]

Hello

[Ranger]

282 Makes sense but I think you're exaggerating that it's

insanely

townie, you even admit that it can be faked "if they think to".

Well yes. Any action can be scum if they think to. It's just a matter of whether they will. I maintain Arko's posts are disproportionately +town, regardless of Arko's alignment--if Arko is scum it would be scum who made +town posts, but you'll never convince me the posts weren't +town.

Convince me the posts were +town that happened to be made by scum? That, that's quite possible. I'm considering it right now. (Well, will be as soon as I log off. I don't think I have the brain capacity to reassess without distancing myself. So I need a night of rest to relax and recharge my brain before I tackle it tomorrow.)

[Ranger]

Eh, screw it. I had Vander town earlier, Vander has town posting, I'll give the tier separation.

{Aisa}
{AurorusVox}
{Vanderscamp}
{Arko, Bellaphant}
{KawaiiKame, BloodB0t}
{Oclaxian Empire}
(That said, Bella up with Arko because both need the same thing: overnight evaluation.)

[Aisa]

I need rest too, last points before I go:
- Ranger is town, Ranger wagon not good, if I wake up tomorrow and see that you people have decided to hammer Ranger before I can post again I am certainly not going to be advocating for sending any of you to heaven in the next phase xx
- Not going to fan the flames on Oclaxian Empire's wagon when I haven't digested the whole case, but at a first glance I like that vote a lot more than Ranger or Arko.
- Welcome to the game Kowahbunga!
- Happy scumday, AurorusVox!
- Am I just going to sheep Ranger into oblivion this game? Keep reading to find out!

[Vanderscamp]

Pretty null. Vaguely towny in tone

Hypocrite.

Why?

I don't think he's made a dozen posts that are towny in tone, if that's what you're referring to.

[Vanderscamp]

which seems more like assuming Arko is town and working backwards.

Is this your issue???

That I'm assuming Arko is town and working backwards???

I thought I made it clear.

Everyone is town by default.

Yes

, I assume Arko is town, because I assume everyone is town initially.

My readslists are fluent and everyone starts at null.

But while everyone starts with a

read

of null, I still

assume

town.

I'm not sure how to explain that if you don't get the conceptual difference between assuming town and reading town and knowing town. The three are all separate ideas.

{AurorusVox, Aisa}
{Bellaphant}
{Arko, Vanderscamp}
{KawaiiKame}
{BloodB0t}
{Oclaxian Empire}

Do you really think I don't know the difference between those things?

The way you're talking about Arko is not coming from a perspective of assuming he's town by default.
You're pointing out multiple posts of Arko's that you think are actively towny, that I and others doubt are alignment indicative enough for you to be able to get the reads that you're claiming.

It looks to me more like you are scum justifying a read on someone, than someone coming to those conclusions naturally.

[Kowahbunga]

I townread Oclaxian for 178.

[Bellaphant]

[...]
As for Arko, I've vibed with them from the beginning. First page was just vibes of rvs + liking their mechtalk; the townread started in earnest from 26. Specifically,

Also- I'm betting now that one of the non-posters is a sinner. the other 2 are probably within this group of 7 though as you could probably obviously tell.

I loved this thought process.

I liked the engagement in 41.
I liked the sentiment of 43/48/61/65.
54 is an approach I feel comes from a town mindset.
The explanation of 69 is an approach which is nai, but the context of sharing it makes me lean town. (Someone explaining their philosophy is nai in of itself. The context behind explaining the philosophy can be ai, in this case, +town.)
I felt 118 was a good approach upon returning to the thread.
154 is not a scum post.

There's good reason Arko's my top townread.
Near as I can tell, there's no reason for Arko to be scum.

Yeahhhh you know what, these are good points. Arko gets my townread!

Are they good points?
Did you click on any of the posts that Ranger linked to see which posts they were talking about?

This is a genuine question, I'm interested in the answer to this.
I'm interested if you agreed with the reads on all of the individual posts, or just some of them.

I really like this, mainly because I am now skimming rangers posts;)

[Bellaphant]

Aisa, have I scum read you for self conscious posting before?

[Vanderscamp]

[...]
As for Arko, I've vibed with them from the beginning. First page was just vibes of rvs + liking their mechtalk; the townread started in earnest from 26. Specifically,

Also- I'm betting now that one of the non-posters is a sinner. the other 2 are probably within this group of 7 though as you could probably obviously tell.

I loved this thought process.

I liked the engagement in 41.
I liked the sentiment of 43/48/61/65.
54 is an approach I feel comes from a town mindset.
The explanation of 69 is an approach which is nai, but the context of sharing it makes me lean town. (Someone explaining their philosophy is nai in of itself. The context behind explaining the philosophy can be ai, in this case, +town.)
I felt 118 was a good approach upon returning to the thread.
154 is not a scum post.

There's good reason Arko's my top townread.
Near as I can tell, there's no reason for Arko to be scum.

Yeahhhh you know what, these are good points. Arko gets my townread!

Are they good points?
Did you click on any of the posts that Ranger linked to see which posts they were talking about?

This is a genuine question, I'm interested in the answer to this.
I'm interested if you agreed with the reads on all of the individual posts, or just some of them.

I really like this, mainly because I am now skimming rangers posts;)

Yeah, I was expecting to have a scum read on Aisa for it but their response was fine.

[Bellaphant]

I can't work out my read on aisa at all: I thought vibed obv!town, then I was weirdes out about them being so strange about granting a town read, then town again, then I disliked their jumping in fully with ranger, but their response was vibe town again. The thing that's bothering me about their recent posting though is that it feels quite ...self conscious?

[Bellaphant]

Bloodbot, struggling to read you too: can you throw a question or thought at me?