Hollow Knight Mafia [game over]

[furtiveglance]

Certainly is BALS-y

[furtiveglance]

What if I start to go all Lamist at final 4

I don't want to throw oh no

What if I'm too confbiased on my reads

[Klick]

So... I'm town. I'm feeling low-confidence about the last scum. I think there are pretty good arguments you can make for all three of you being town, and I'm at the point where I need to buckle down and determine what reasoning isn't valid and why.

Until then, I think the most value I can bring to this situation is demonstrating that I'm town and hoping that that can be seen.

Essentially I intentionally didn't state my suspicion of Gimli in the hopes that Gimli!scum would consider trying to play the WIFOM game and vote furtive, instead of the more obvious play of waiting until furtive votes me and hammering me.

I was planning to compliment this by mostly arguing for my own innocence and trying to get Gimli to argue into a situation where he had to see me as town. And then if he established that I was town I was going to ask him to vote first.

All of this because I'm very frustrated at the lack of options with how hard furtive is projecting a scumread on me here.

I think there's a fairly clear connection from the message I wrote to the actual intent of the message
I think Gimli's framing of it as just lies that I came up with after Gimli started pushing me ignores evidence to the contrary

[Klick]

i think that even if klick were looking to level up his scum game and really pop off here there is no reason to take a lot of the routes he has taken

and i think they make sense as town

would you consider how the paths I took make no sense as scum? klick keeps talking a lot about how the things he did he wouldn't do them as scum, and they're nice logical posts so your first instinct is to agree with them, but if you're thinking it's then me instead you should consider that I started last gameday pushing you, defending klick, then i moved to furtive, I've been the main pusher of both slots last gameday and now I'm the main pusher of klick's. when as scum, all I had to do was push klick last gameday. I'm definitely a lot more political than that if I'm playing a scum game, surely.

im not necessarily thinking it's you

I think it's rather unlikely to be furtive? I'll hear it out but I don't see it at all

[Gimli]

So... I'm town. I'm feeling low-confidence about the last scum. I think there are pretty good arguments you can make for all three of you being town, and I'm at the point where I need to buckle down and determine what reasoning isn't valid and why.

Until then, I think the most value I can bring to this situation is demonstrating that I'm town and hoping that that can be seen.

Essentially I intentionally didn't state my suspicion of Gimli in the hopes that Gimli!scum would consider trying to play the WIFOM game and vote furtive, instead of the more obvious play of waiting until furtive votes me and hammering me.

I was planning to compliment this by mostly arguing for my own innocence and trying to get Gimli to argue into a situation where he had to see me as town. And then if he established that I was town I was going to ask him to vote first.

All of this because I'm very frustrated at the lack of options with how hard furtive is projecting a scumread on me here.

I think there's a fairly clear connection from the message I wrote to the actual intent of the message
I think Gimli's framing of it as just lies that I came up with after Gimli started pushing me ignores evidence to the contrary

[fireisredsir]

more that im not ruling out furtive than that im leaning towards him

will discuss more later

[Klick]

So... I'm town. I'm feeling low-confidence about the last scum. I think there are pretty good arguments you can make for all three of you being town, and I'm at the point where I need to buckle down and determine what reasoning isn't valid and why.

Until then, I think the most value I can bring to this situation is demonstrating that I'm town and hoping that that can be seen.

Essentially I intentionally didn't state my suspicion of Gimli in the hopes that Gimli!scum would consider trying to play the WIFOM game and vote furtive, instead of the more obvious play of waiting until furtive votes me and hammering me.

I was planning to compliment this by mostly arguing for my own innocence and trying to get Gimli to argue into a situation where he had to see me as town. And then if he established that I was town I was going to ask him to vote first.

All of this because I'm very frustrated at the lack of options with how hard furtive is projecting a scumread on me here.

I think there's a fairly clear connection from the message I wrote to the actual intent of the message
I think Gimli's framing of it as just lies that I came up with after Gimli started pushing me ignores evidence to the contrary

When you don't have words to rebut a point but you need to find a way to keep furtive on-side anyway

[Gimli]

I don't see a clear connection between what you wrote in the message and what you wrote afterwards, all you showed was that indeed you argued on your innocence

[Gimli]

the entire part about how this was a plan to get gimli to do anything - that isn't something demonstrable from your message post lol you're just using

bolding a text

[Gimli]

my theory for how it can be klick and it fitting with a game where he pushed hood wolves early is that klick had a traitor role, didn't know who the scum was, and inherited their factional after the last scum died in d3. yes there are missing kills but they can be explained by the scum playing around the hider ability, and especially last night I don't see why scum would be interested in reducing our odds at making a mistake. so I'm not reading into the oddnight stuff.

we can figure out if this was odd night or if this was antispew from scum by calling for no elim again...

[Klick]

The play I wrote in my message: come into today demonstrating that I'm town, as a goal in itself
The play I actually intended to do: come into today demonstrating that I'm town, to possibly get you to vote furtive before furtive voted me in LyLo

[Gimli]

The play I wrote in my message: come into today demonstrating that I'm town, as a goal in itself
The play I actually intended to do: come into today demonstrating that I'm town,

to possibly get you to vote furtive before furtive voted me in LyLo

bolded for the part that isn't anywhere in your message

[Klick]

I didn't claim that it was

[Gimli]

what you're saying is that you took a neutral position on purpose while hard scumreading me and that you planned on keeping a false impression throughout f3 until I voted furtive. okay, but 1) the part that matters isn't hinted in your message so this can and looks like a lie cause I forced the 1v1 on ya, and 2) you'd run the risk of having furtive voting you first if you did what you said you'd do, so if you're town that looks like a bad plan.

[Gimli]

I didn't claim that it was

you claimed you had 'evidence on the contrary' of me saying you lied about scumreading me

you agree there's no evidence in contrary then

[Klick]

I think you're ignoring evidence that suggests my plan is actually what I intended to do

Evidence: the plan I intended to do is closely linked to what I actually wrote in my message

[Klick]

I don't have time to properly do this right now on my lunch break but when I've got time next I'm going to go through early game a bit more with a focus on Gimli's play

[Gimli]

I think it's mental gymnastics to say the part of your plan that was 'getting townread' is closely linked with 'bait gimli into voting furtive so I can be locktown and vote him'

we all plan on getting townread in eLo.

[Klick]

That's because you're necessarily not trying to understand my thought process

[Gimli]

I understood your explanation, I don't think it's real though

[fireisredsir]

oh thank god post numbers in quotes are back

i had almost forgotten how much i missed them

[fireisredsir]

my thing with furtive is that one of the main reasons i was tempted to clear him yesterday was how he wasn't really budging on wanting to no lim, when that seemed like the worst possible approach for him as scum when he could easily have just won the game instead

but right now im in a place where i think that if it's klick or gimli, either of them would have killed last night if they were able to do so

which means that imo we are already very likely in the world where scum has alternating night kill power

and in that world it isn't just no longer the worst play for scum furtive to try to no lim, it's the best play

[fireisredsir]

i promise i spent like 3 minutes figuring out how to make that last sentence less confusing and still communicate what i wanted to say

the triple negative was unavoidable

[Gimli]

my thing with furtive is that one of the main reasons i was tempted to clear him yesterday was how he wasn't really budging on wanting to no lim, when that seemed like the worst possible approach for him as scum when he could easily have just won the game instead

but right now im in a place where i think that if it's klick or gimli, either of them would have killed last night if they were able to do so

which means that imo we are already very likely in the world where scum has alternating night kill power

and in that world it isn't just no longer the worst play for scum furtive to try to no lim, it's the best play

there was a point last gameday I was sure we were dealing with an odd night neutral, notice that came right after I talked it out with furtive and klick re: nightkills. thats cause I had that same paranoia over furtive.

but I think the way klick is playing is too survivalistic and openly strategical, and I don't think his message + push on me backtracking the message comes from town klick. also I don't really think town klick would scumread me after last gameday? but that's thin. I just think it's him now.

[Gimli]

not re: nightkills, re: going no elim