Mini 2293: Death Note. Postgame!

[Gimli]

going with the flow is a calculated play, I'm sure you can see that.

[Gimli]

I wanna know how you got to a POE of either me or HPE just because we are 'causing chaos', which in my case must be the fact that I'm posting.

[Gimli]

Gimli could be galaxy braining me but why does Kira!Gimli not just push HPE here? Continuing to solve beyond the obvious Kira suspect at this stage of the game seems ridiculously townie to me but also that could be exactly why Gimli is doing it. I'm getting town vibes from this StD thing. It's actually making me rethink the game a little

aaaa my favorite type of post

[Gimli]

bug and kira are quite similar, all you have to do is not get killed, and in both games you played exactly like this agreeable starfox lurky guy

[Gimli]

your posting caused no impression there as well, thats what im calling lurky

[Gimli]

hpe is playing like a follower would, trying 1v1s, being loud, acting obtusely. I don't think that's how kira would behave.

This one is trying to 1v1 you because it firmly and staunchly believes you to be Kira you meatball. The way you keep trying to wrap everything around your finger, spinning StD as Kira and this one as their follower... It's an admittedly good play, Black's said as much, but the way you're going about it, your tone, and what you were doing BEFORE settling on that possibility, give the impression of absolutely zero good faith. You're very much trying to muddy the waters rather than simply go for the throat on an easy elimination (Not that you didn't try) because it gives everyone else the impression that you're some kind of town paragon making the biggest brained solve of all time or whatever the fuck, which of course seems to be helping your odds the way you're shaking up Black.

I love playing mafia with you

anyway we talk later

[Gimli]

I love the way kawaii solves, it's so revigorating

[Gimli]

im lock clearing kokichi post incoming

[Gimli]

im clearing hpe from being specifically kira as well

[Gimli]

Spoiler: reading into vanderspew

its a lot of work. but there's some reads we can get out of this to come to a solve:

I thought kokichi might have been scum for the vote on black for the call for skill claims, but his response to me asking about it felt null

I get that sometimes the follower will throw some shade at kira so it won't look obvious, but you'll note how vanderscamp does it unnecessarily throughout the game. he really likes shading kokichi this game and I don't think you wanna go around shading your kira.

more importantly than me being wrong about your behaviour in that game,

So you admit your reasoning was wrong, but you think that I was trying to buddy both of you. I was going to vote StD until he reminded me I did that in Haunted, you were there that game so you should know I tunneled him all day 1 when we were both town. As for you, I don't townread you, I was just seeing if you'd do the same thing you always do.

All pushes on me are towny

Mafia too hard

VOTE: kokichi

You did this when I voted you when we were both town, so I wanted to see if you had the same reaction. Not if I was automatically going to think you were town for it.

If you didn't think he was town, and you phrased it as ""unvote," you did the same thing as town, I wanted to see if you would do the same thing as you did when you were town and you did," why wouldn't you clarify that that's not a town read?
Because it obviously looks like a town read.

this looks too strong to be pushing your kira with

Either way, i think Gimli is just hyper focused on me cause I had him completely fooled last game, or that could be just a facade. Not important right now.

VOTE: Azu

Why is it not important?

these are mean spirited questions, he wants to scumread koki with this

starting to have doubts on kokichi

gimli, why malakittens?

Thoughts on kokichi?

you wouldn't gamethrow by highlighting your kira to people, would you?

Okay it's independent of me. Then okay. And I don't think we're going to vote out Kawaii today anyway, so no point.

I'm actually just going to look through iso's and stop trying to defend myself cause my back and forth with you is distracting me too much.

I am extremely down to daykill Kawaii.

I don't like the fact that Kawaii has never responded to me calling out that post I thought was scummy, or asked me about my vote.

At this point a daykill on Kawaii doesn't feel necessary.

Sinking into background is feeling more and more like a scum thing to this one but even if we condemn them in a day or two it honestly doesn't think it would be worth it especially for the detective reveal. And then there's the aspect of when you wait multiple days, the gamestate and what we know and who's scummiest will change. Condemn now = Total gamble, condemn later = We don't even know if we'd want to at that point.

Thus if you want Kawaii dead NOW, vote them.

Though again this one prefers dragging the game days out for max discussion and analysis.

Besides the bold part. What is this even saying? Seems like you're talking just to talk. The first post that's not about me is like you're trying to sound like you're saying something without saying anything.

I'll retract my scum read on your Kawaii defence then if you hadn't seen this post.

The game will not end if Kawaii is elim'd, I'm pretty sure.

Why?

Because I think he's town

Can you explain why?

Okay it's independent of me. Then okay. And I don't think we're going to vote out Kawaii today anyway, so no point.

I'm actually just going to look through iso's and stop trying to defend myself cause my back and forth with you is distracting me too much.

I am extremely down to daykill Kawaii.

I don't like the fact that Kawaii has never responded to me calling out that post I thought was scummy, or asked me about my vote.

At this point a daykill on Kawaii doesn't feel necessary. Sinking into background is feeling more and more like a scum thing to this one but even if we condemn them in a day or two it honestly doesn't think it would be worth it especially for the detective reveal. And then there's the aspect of when you wait multiple days, the gamestate and what we know and who's scummiest will change. Condemn now = Total gamble, condemn later = We don't even know if we'd want to at that point. Thus if you want Kawaii dead NOW, vote them. Though again this one prefers dragging the game days out for max discussion and analysis.

I am voting them.

I also don't understand this defence, this feels very follower to Kawaii Kira esque.

Why does this feel very follower to me = Kira esque?

Because I don't think HPE's post makes any sense at all, you could basically sub in any name for yours and the post would be exactly the same. The only place HPE talks about you specifically is mentioning that you have been scummy.

this is probably too strong to be a push on kira

I would like some thoughts from players not named Gimli. Do we think this post could come from Kira or nah?

Spoiler: For kira's eyes only

You should definitely swap with me so I can kill people with the death note tonight.
I known it seems silly but consider the following pros and cons.

Pros

- If I am VT, it frames me and you appear innocent.
If I am a Kira follower, I would kill a townie and you would be fine.
If I am a power role, I'm likely killing a townie instead of whatever I'm supposed to be doing.
The frame is permanent.
It would be funny.
Literally noone would believe you actually did this and I would likely be limmed tomorrow for claiming it happened, assuming I am town.

Cons

There is an incredibly low chance you die to your own Death Note, although this would be a funny outcome.
You don't choose who dies n1.


Pros seem to be outweighing the cons here.
And I got my fanciest pen <3

Yes, I think it's the kind of thing Meg could have thought of before seeing their role.

thats potentially good for meg, but its thin.

I see you're keeping up with voting everyone to make yourself seem not sure again.

This reads as fake

again throwing too much shade at kokichi

I was potentially moving to Mala/kokichi/std today until that post, there's just no way

I think koki is spewed not kira here.

I mean if you are are follower you would want to defend gimli, and he would have no way to know it is you?
Are you not defending gimli's case on you?

It's plausible imo, I don't really think it's reality.

I am defending since I feel it's genuinely town, I want to eliminate who I see as town so I can find Kira, I don't see Gimli as Kira, I was down to eliminate Gimli at one point when he was pursuing me but my mind changed as his mind changed on me...
I see why you see why you think I might be Gimli's follower, yeah,
What do you really think is reality? I want to eliminate Kira

To be honest, I'm not sure
It's a tough game
Gut says it's a slot not getting high attention (Std/Mala/Vander/HPE) But I townread most of that list to some degree

Wow, you townread that list?
Because I don't think that's a very towny list of players at all and I'm in it.

So your scum is in Gimli/Kawaii/kokichi/black?

maybe good for meg?

I kind of just want the day to end at this point, I feel like I'm just tunneling my reads harder and harder.

I still think Gimli is a pretty terrible lim, I think the way he's played is the kind of inconsistency that comes more often from passionate town than scum with an agenda.

I still don't think Kawaii is town, but I think other people sound scummy and I'm happy to entertain the possibility that I'm just really tunneled.


I didn't like Mala's reaction to Gimli at all, I feel like when someone calls you out as a TPR people react in several different ways. I think the towny way to react, regardless of whether you'reTPR or not, is to kind of play into it, like giving a wink emoji or joking about your vig target or something.
I think Mala's reaction was pretty scummy, like Mala seemed really annoyed in a really obviously "I'm a TPR" type way. I get that this may seem unhelpful to talk about, but it was imo so blatant that there's no chance anyone missed it, so I'm just going to talk about it. I basically feel like if you are what you're softing it doesn't make sense because you would not want to actually react in that way, and it didn't feel at all like a VT trying to take a bullet, so I think it was just scummy.

I thought STD's reaction to Gimli a few pages ago was pretty good, I got the vibe from it that they actually believed what they were saying and weren't defending themselves just for the sake of defending themselves.

I really, really, really don't like kokichi's continual defence of "I literally can't be Kira" because it relies on the premise that followers would have just hard defended them facing an early D1, and the fact that no one did is clearing.
I don't really think this is something kokichi actually believes so it just reads as false.

Other than that, my non updated reads are that I think black and lorne are town and everyone else is null.

more spewing kokichi as not kira. defense of std seems a bit exaggerated, but i dont think its necessarily +kira for std either. vanderscamp has been hard tring town too.

koki is never kira
hpe looks good cause vander pushed hpe
meg also looks okay
std and lorne feel more likely as the kira to how vander played the game.

[Gimli]

actually the hpe push by vander is quite minimal, I'll re-check at some point to be sure it makes hpe less likely kira.

[Gimli]

It's a tone thing it has to do with her zzzzzz and ..... posts coming from liberated town free to do what they want rather than scum that have to care about what they say

Actually I do think I remember you saying this before, my bad

I'm sorry for questioning you mr kira

lmao I can totally see it

[Gimli]

Yeah but just now... if you are telling the truth about being a follower... why would you not use that ability without the claim?

std is 100% scum, and the only one with this kind of equity

I say we just kill him

[Gimli]

Yeah but just now... if you are telling the truth about being a follower... why would you not use that ability without the claim?

std is 100% scum, and the only one with this kind of equity

I say we just kill him

Do you think he could actually be telling the truth? I don't

he could but the way hpe defended him is more like follower organically defending kira than the other way around

I think std just gave us wifom so we'd kill hpe instead

pedit: hpe keeps defending him, it is not kira

if hpe was kira it'd just accept killing std here

[Gimli]

i mean you both played this completely face up, I'm surprised

but I'll take it...

[Gimli]

std pushed me a fair bit this game and I think he voted me when my wagon was picking up

pretty much std/gimli is never a combination that works in any capacity

[Gimli]

yeah he can do that as literal follower, but it would make no sense. I think he is kira and I'm happy to lose if I'm wrong

[Gimli]

std/hpe relationship only works when hpe is follower and std is kira

and if hpe isnt kira, then std claimed for no reason. to help us catch real kira? in case it was like lorne/meg. he'd either let town kill him or let town kill hpe.

[Gimli]

yeah actually there are situations where claiming follower as follower is against his wincon as follower. especifically if kira is lorne/meg, or someone outside of me/hpe, cause the flip was going inside (me, std, hpe) before he claimed. if kira is outside this pool, then claiming follower at that point as follower is working against your wincon.

[Gimli]

gimli redemption ark imo

[Gimli]

yeah its my bad re: malakittens

if hpe is kira then I'll get something else postgame ain't I lmao

but I think we got this...

[Gimli]

Here's the timeline of StD's claim btw. He was under serious pressure here as a Kira suspect. This was his last hail mary.

Kira Fakeclaims Follower

#2014 - I say Gimli could be right about StD and declare my intent to dig through the thread

Spoiler: #2014

I can't believe I'm saying this but I think Gimli could be right here

I still think we take all the time in the world here. Let the inactives chime in and whatnot

I'm going to dig through the thread

#2016 - StD immediately responds and asks me why I think it's him. He doesn't want me to go through the thread

Spoiler: #2016

why do you think it's me, black

#2019 - I tell StD that I just think it could be him and want to look deeper

Spoiler: #2019

why do you think it's me, black

I just think it can be you. I disagree with HPE that you are clear and I want to take a deeper look

#2020 - StD immediately responds and asks if I have any thoughts about the current Gimli/StD conversation. Definitely doesn't want me to go through the thread. Instead he wants me to look at a conversation where he's using a meta argument to towncase himself

Spoiler: #2020

do you have any thoughts about my conversation with gimli right now

#2041 - Kawaii says he will case StD after I asked him to

Spoiler: #2041

*snip*

Kawaii I really like these little breakdowns. Could you do one for StD?

Yes, lemme get to it

#2047 and #2048 - Meg says there is room for StD Kira and puts him in her Kira PoE

Spoiler: #2047, #2048

There's room for it I suppose Kawaii said they'd lay out a case for it no?

Std/Gimli/HPE are the most likely trio fmpov

#2059 - Gimli narrows down his list of Kira candidates and basically reaches the conclusion it's StD

Spoiler: #2059

Spoiler: reading into vanderspew

its a lot of work. but there's some reads we can get out of this to come to a solve:

I thought kokichi might have been scum for the vote on black for the call for skill claims, but his response to me asking about it felt null

I get that sometimes the follower will throw some shade at kira so it won't look obvious, but you'll note how vanderscamp does it unnecessarily throughout the game. he really likes shading kokichi this game and I don't think you wanna go around shading your kira.

more importantly than me being wrong about your behaviour in that game,

So you admit your reasoning was wrong, but you think that I was trying to buddy both of you. I was going to vote StD until he reminded me I did that in Haunted, you were there that game so you should know I tunneled him all day 1 when we were both town. As for you, I don't townread you, I was just seeing if you'd do the same thing you always do.

All pushes on me are towny

Mafia too hard

VOTE: kokichi

You did this when I voted you when we were both town, so I wanted to see if you had the same reaction. Not if I was automatically going to think you were town for it.

If you didn't think he was town, and you phrased it as ""unvote," you did the same thing as town, I wanted to see if you would do the same thing as you did when you were town and you did," why wouldn't you clarify that that's not a town read?
Because it obviously looks like a town read.

this looks too strong to be pushing your kira with

Either way, i think Gimli is just hyper focused on me cause I had him completely fooled last game, or that could be just a facade. Not important right now.

VOTE: Azu

Why is it not important?

these are mean spirited questions, he wants to scumread koki with this

starting to have doubts on kokichi

gimli, why malakittens?

Thoughts on kokichi?

you wouldn't gamethrow by highlighting your kira to people, would you?

Okay it's independent of me. Then okay. And I don't think we're going to vote out Kawaii today anyway, so no point.

I'm actually just going to look through iso's and stop trying to defend myself cause my back and forth with you is distracting me too much.

I am extremely down to daykill Kawaii.

I don't like the fact that Kawaii has never responded to me calling out that post I thought was scummy, or asked me about my vote.

At this point a daykill on Kawaii doesn't feel necessary.

Sinking into background is feeling more and more like a scum thing to this one but even if we condemn them in a day or two it honestly doesn't think it would be worth it especially for the detective reveal. And then there's the aspect of when you wait multiple days, the gamestate and what we know and who's scummiest will change. Condemn now = Total gamble, condemn later = We don't even know if we'd want to at that point.

Thus if you want Kawaii dead NOW, vote them.

Though again this one prefers dragging the game days out for max discussion and analysis.

Besides the bold part. What is this even saying? Seems like you're talking just to talk. The first post that's not about me is like you're trying to sound like you're saying something without saying anything.

I'll retract my scum read on your Kawaii defence then if you hadn't seen this post.

The game will not end if Kawaii is elim'd, I'm pretty sure.

Why?

Because I think he's town

Can you explain why?

Okay it's independent of me. Then okay. And I don't think we're going to vote out Kawaii today anyway, so no point.

I'm actually just going to look through iso's and stop trying to defend myself cause my back and forth with you is distracting me too much.

I am extremely down to daykill Kawaii.

I don't like the fact that Kawaii has never responded to me calling out that post I thought was scummy, or asked me about my vote.

At this point a daykill on Kawaii doesn't feel necessary. Sinking into background is feeling more and more like a scum thing to this one but even if we condemn them in a day or two it honestly doesn't think it would be worth it especially for the detective reveal. And then there's the aspect of when you wait multiple days, the gamestate and what we know and who's scummiest will change. Condemn now = Total gamble, condemn later = We don't even know if we'd want to at that point. Thus if you want Kawaii dead NOW, vote them. Though again this one prefers dragging the game days out for max discussion and analysis.

I am voting them.

I also don't understand this defence, this feels very follower to Kawaii Kira esque.

Why does this feel very follower to me = Kira esque?

Because I don't think HPE's post makes any sense at all, you could basically sub in any name for yours and the post would be exactly the same. The only place HPE talks about you specifically is mentioning that you have been scummy.

this is probably too strong to be a push on kira

I would like some thoughts from players not named Gimli. Do we think this post could come from Kira or nah?

Spoiler: For kira's eyes only

You should definitely swap with me so I can kill people with the death note tonight.
I known it seems silly but consider the following pros and cons.

Pros

- If I am VT, it frames me and you appear innocent.
If I am a Kira follower, I would kill a townie and you would be fine.
If I am a power role, I'm likely killing a townie instead of whatever I'm supposed to be doing.
The frame is permanent.
It would be funny.
Literally noone would believe you actually did this and I would likely be limmed tomorrow for claiming it happened, assuming I am town.

Cons

There is an incredibly low chance you die to your own Death Note, although this would be a funny outcome.
You don't choose who dies n1.


Pros seem to be outweighing the cons here.
And I got my fanciest pen <3

Yes, I think it's the kind of thing Meg could have thought of before seeing their role.

thats potentially good for meg, but its thin.

I see you're keeping up with voting everyone to make yourself seem not sure again.

This reads as fake

again throwing too much shade at kokichi

I was potentially moving to Mala/kokichi/std today until that post, there's just no way

I think koki is spewed not kira here.

I mean if you are are follower you would want to defend gimli, and he would have no way to know it is you?
Are you not defending gimli's case on you?

It's plausible imo, I don't really think it's reality.

I am defending since I feel it's genuinely town, I want to eliminate who I see as town so I can find Kira, I don't see Gimli as Kira, I was down to eliminate Gimli at one point when he was pursuing me but my mind changed as his mind changed on me...
I see why you see why you think I might be Gimli's follower, yeah,
What do you really think is reality? I want to eliminate Kira

To be honest, I'm not sure
It's a tough game
Gut says it's a slot not getting high attention (Std/Mala/Vander/HPE) But I townread most of that list to some degree

Wow, you townread that list?
Because I don't think that's a very towny list of players at all and I'm in it.

So your scum is in Gimli/Kawaii/kokichi/black?

maybe good for meg?

I kind of just want the day to end at this point, I feel like I'm just tunneling my reads harder and harder.

I still think Gimli is a pretty terrible lim, I think the way he's played is the kind of inconsistency that comes more often from passionate town than scum with an agenda.

I still don't think Kawaii is town, but I think other people sound scummy and I'm happy to entertain the possibility that I'm just really tunneled.


I didn't like Mala's reaction to Gimli at all, I feel like when someone calls you out as a TPR people react in several different ways. I think the towny way to react, regardless of whether you'reTPR or not, is to kind of play into it, like giving a wink emoji or joking about your vig target or something.
I think Mala's reaction was pretty scummy, like Mala seemed really annoyed in a really obviously "I'm a TPR" type way. I get that this may seem unhelpful to talk about, but it was imo so blatant that there's no chance anyone missed it, so I'm just going to talk about it. I basically feel like if you are what you're softing it doesn't make sense because you would not want to actually react in that way, and it didn't feel at all like a VT trying to take a bullet, so I think it was just scummy.

I thought STD's reaction to Gimli a few pages ago was pretty good, I got the vibe from it that they actually believed what they were saying and weren't defending themselves just for the sake of defending themselves.

I really, really, really don't like kokichi's continual defence of "I literally can't be Kira" because it relies on the premise that followers would have just hard defended them facing an early D1, and the fact that no one did is clearing.
I don't really think this is something kokichi actually believes so it just reads as false.

Other than that, my non updated reads are that I think black and lorne are town and everyone else is null.

more spewing kokichi as not kira. defense of std seems a bit exaggerated, but i dont think its necessarily +kira for std either. vanderscamp has been hard tring town too.

koki is never kira
hpe looks good cause vander pushed hpe
meg also looks okay
std and lorne feel more likely as the kira to how vander played the game.

#2061 - I make my associative case between Vander and StD

Spoiler: #2061

Is StD Kira?

First I think it will be helpful to look at all interactions and mentions of StD from Vander, a confirmed follower

#236 - the first time Vander acknowledges StD. In this post Vander is asking StD what his thoughts on Kokichi are. This could be follower trying to gauge where his Kira stands on a slot. What I find weird is StD already made it clear how he felt about Kokichi in #191 so why is Vander trying to get more here? For what it's worth, StD doesn't answer this question. Instead he just votes for Kokichi in #282
#378 - Vander agrees with StD here about Kokichi probably not being Kira. Not much to gain from this I don't think. Could be a follower trying to force another interaction with his Kira so that he doesn't seem too distant
#763 - Vander asks StD why he doesn't think Lorne or mala could be Kira. This feels similar to 236 above where it feels like Vander is trying to figure out StD's thoughts on people. Kinda feels like subtle PR hunting and Vander asking the one person he knows is scum their thoughts. StD answers this in #762 and says that he TRs mala because of the way she has handled herself
#771 - Vander asks StD to elaborate

even more

and says he doesn't understand the mala read despite ALSO townreading her two times earlier for behavioral stuff. This implies Vander understands the TR but he's trying to get more information out of StD. He's PR hunting
#784 - Vander asking StD why mala can't be scum here
#1029 - Vander still pressuring StD about the mala townread. Very odd stuff considering he townread two of mala's posts earlier. These last 4 interactions seem very forced so that when someone goes back and looks at them they can say "Vander pushed StD, no way StD is Kira". This isn't pushing at all. It's Vander begging StD to elaborate on a TR
#1059 - Vander disagrees with StD that Gimli might be a follower to Kira!Kawaii
#1080 - this one is short and I think pretty important so I'm posting it: "I was potentially moving to Mala/kokichi/std today until that post" ......wait what? Vander actually says here that he was considering "moving to StD" after no previous expression of suspicion or anything. The only thing Vander has been saying in regards to StD is how he doesn't understand StD's mala TR. This is clearly distancing throwing StD's name in here
#1091 - Vander says he suddenly remembers why StD townread mala. Yeah...ok...

The next post is Vander's reads list. I've bolded and highlighted the part about StD:

I kind of just want the day to end at this point, I feel like I'm just tunneling my reads harder and harder.

I still think Gimli is a pretty terrible lim, I think the way he's played is the kind of inconsistency that comes more often from passionate town than scum with an agenda.

I still don't think Kawaii is town, but I think other people sound scummy and I'm happy to entertain the possibility that I'm just really tunneled.


I didn't like Mala's reaction to Gimli at all, I feel like when someone calls you out as a TPR people react in several different ways. I think the towny way to react, regardless of whether you'reTPR or not, is to kind of play into it, like giving a wink emoji or joking about your vig target or something.
I think Mala's reaction was pretty scummy, like Mala seemed really annoyed in a really obviously "I'm a TPR" type way. I get that this may seem unhelpful to talk about, but it was imo so blatant that there's no chance anyone missed it, so I'm just going to talk about it. I basically feel like if you are what you're softing it doesn't make sense because you would not want to actually react in that way, and it didn't feel at all like a VT trying to take a bullet, so I think it was just scummy.

I thought STD's reaction to Gimli a few pages ago was pretty good, I got the vibe from it that they actually believed what they were saying and weren't defending themselves just for the sake of defending themselves.

I really, really, really don't like kokichi's continual defence of "I literally can't be Kira" because it relies on the premise that followers would have just hard defended them facing an early D1, and the fact that no one did is clearing.
I don't really think this is something kokichi actually believes so it just reads as false.

Other than that, my non updated reads are that I think black and lorne are town and everyone else is null.

^^
This is really weird btw. Extremely shallow read on StD. Just a few posts before this Vander was "considering moving to StD" today but here he's just like "uh I like StD's reaction to Gimli a few pages ago"

These are all the interactions from Vander to StD. My first reaction is I can't believe HPE has cleared StD over this

I think I want to look at HPE to StD next

#2065 - I break down HPE's case on why StD can't be Kira. Keep in mind that HPE has walked back most of this case of his in recent posts. Strong indication HPE is StD's follower

Spoiler: #2065

Do your ass an ISO read and you'll see that

StD and Vanderscamp agree like, once

. Vanderscamp calls StD's reaction good and then

most of their interactions are disagreements

,

Vander including StD in solve lists for Kira/Followers

, and

by the end during twilight just openly saying that he thinks StD is a Follower to a lying Kira!Mala

. They have zero synergy, yet nor are they keeping distance.

Wait, this is extremely telling from HPE here. It clearly did the research (or knows what it is talking about) regarding Vander/StD interactions. This is seriously why you don't think StD could be Vander's Kira? It's the most surface level thing you could possibly say about someone in a reads list. There isn't even a read here...it's just "I agree with one thing StD said".

It was a few times actually

They don't have many interactions at all and I wouldn't say that most of them are disagreements. You can read my post on StD a bit ago but most of the interactions were Vander trying to get StD to explain his mala read and then going "oh ok I remember you saying that" when he finally does

He actually TRed StD in 1451. Also what are you saying here really? I don't see StD in any solve lists for Kira/Followers, can you point these out?

Where did this happen??

#2067 - I vote for StD

#2068 - StD immediately responds and starts the counterclaim process. He was reading along as the pressure grew right in front of his eyes

Spoiler: #2068

ugh

you're making this so boring

should i make it interesting?

yeah that's a very solid recap. so, let's win the game folks?

[Gimli]

I'm hanging out here for a bit if you wanna discuss this meg

I think HPE is voting std as a gambit. it'll unvote and do theatrics before we reach deadline, I'm sure.

[Gimli]

'I thought this over and I think it's just gimli!!!'

[Gimli]

note that HPE itself is talking about grace period. it knows what its doing.

[Gimli]

well, as long as you're not kira

[Gimli]

like hpe I think you can be town but even std thought you were a follower right now

I can see meg being std's follower instead actually, let's see how she evaluates things.

[Gimli]

all I expect from NM is hammers

[Gimli]

@Not_Mafia I summon thee

[Gimli]

Sup

you hammer and the game ends

[Gimli]

so someone that isn't HPE and that isn't STD has this ability and decided to use this ability

what gives?

[Gimli]

well we have another day to talk it out I guess lol

[Gimli]

if std is a follower the only people I think he spews as not kira are me, kokichi and kawaii I think

I think the way HPE played is not kira-esque

I think Meg has good interactions with vanderscamp in the sense that it being possibly not his kira

so if std is just a follower, his kira is NM lol

but I don't think std says he is a follower unless he is kira, or unless he is trying to save kira!hpe from the kill

I think he says he is a follower as kira for complete WIFOM

unfortunately for std's plans as kira, that means he is the only player in the game with 100% scum equity, and that gives him the highest possible kira equity itg for us

[Gimli]

the idea of claiming follower is only reasonable from a kira!std standpoint. I'm convinced that nothing else makes sense. it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

[Gimli]

we know for a fact that this ability was not used by kira

NM what's your ability?
meg what's your ability?

[Gimli]

if this ability was used by kira, it makes no sense cause its gamethrow, since the std flip serves kira's wincon
std can't have the ability himself cause he already had another ability
hpe can't be the one with the ability since she already has another ability

I rly hope it wasn't kawaiikame but whoever did this is confirmed not kira

[Gimli]

there are some odd implications at play

if kira holds this power, then it'll save a traitor.

[Gimli]

I think it's possible that HPE is town.

[Gimli]

you don't think kira receives a skill?

[Gimli]

I had clingy

ofc I'm not the one who did this

[Gimli]

HPE went from hard townread on StD to just voting him no problem which i find interesting

He hardclaimed scum

[Gimli]

If NM is follower then the ability would set off for std kira even if NM didn't send it in

[Gimli]

HPE went from hard townread on StD to just voting him no problem which i find interesting

He hardclaimed scum

Yeah but HPE's initial reaction to StD's claim was that he's lying lol

Yup

Well anyway VOTE: std

[Gimli]

if NM has this ability, I don't think he uses it.
if meg has this ability, I think she might use it, but not coming here to say anything afterwards is bad.

if either is kira, the ability wouldn't be used.
if either is a follower and std is kira, the ability is used automatically.
either way, whoever used the ability is not kira.

[Gimli]

That makes a bit more sense.

are you town?

[Gimli]

it doesn't matter we flip std regardless

but you might be town and meg or NM being follower

[Gimli]

I'm coming around to hpe town tbh

the 'dont bullshit me' post is really townie push

but I think even std was like 'shit my follower outed me' lol and then did what he did

[Gimli]

the best way to pressure kira is by hard defending him lmao

[Gimli]

yeah it goes automatically even, if meg is traitor

[Gimli]

'follower'

[Gimli]

meg really disappeared didn't she

I think she is the follower and there's no reason to try in this game anymore

[Gimli]

Who did that ability?

hi can you vote std so this game will finally end?

[Gimli]

VOTE: HPE

I'll vote who I think it is, that way if we lose it's not on me

So you think StD claimed follower because he was bored with winning the easy way?

I don't see the motivation for him to do it as Kira when only 2 people suspected him.

you must understand he is 100% scum, yes?

if he is the follower to HPE, why would he claim follower when, if we believe that he is follower, we might vote hpe out instead of him?

I also don't think the way he interacted with HPE makes sense if he is not willing to vote HPE this gameday?

[Gimli]

why would he prove himself as not kira if he is a follower, koki? the follower doesn't want to take himself out of potential kira candidates!

also you must realise that the power that removed std's hammer, if it came from scum, came from kira's follower. kira would never trigger it! that's one less person that can be kira!

[Gimli]

I can maybe see it potentially being hpe? but like, let's end this madness. no one else is getting flipped today.

do it kawaii take us to postgame

[Gimli]

if its hpe, and std thought he had an ability that literally meant he is not kira as a literal follower of hpe, why the absofuckinghell would he use it?

[Gimli]

IF HE THOUGHT HIS ABILITY ACTUALLY MEANT HIM NOT BEING KIRA

THEN HE'D BE OUT OF CONTENTION FOR BEING ELIMINATED

WHICH WOULD MEAN WE KILL HPE NO????

[Gimli]

you think std thought his ability meant an inno from him being kira, but if he thought that why would he use it as a follower? wouldn't we just kill hpe if that was the case? or something?

[Gimli]

hpe is playing like a follower would, trying 1v1s, being loud, acting obtusely. I don't think that's how kira would behave.

This one is trying to 1v1 you because it firmly and staunchly believes you to be Kira you meatball. The way you keep trying to wrap everything around your finger, spinning StD as Kira and this one as their follower... It's an admittedly good play, Black's said as much, but the way you're going about it, your tone, and what you were doing BEFORE settling on that possibility, give the impression of absolutely zero good faith. You're very much trying to muddy the waters rather than simply go for the throat on an easy elimination (Not that you didn't try) because it gives everyone else the impression that you're some kind of town paragon making the biggest brained solve of all time or whatever the fuck, which of course seems to be helping your odds the way you're shaking up Black.

this is a post I'm townreading hpe strongly off of and I'll note that it's a bad position to take if hpe is kira. it could just consider std as a possibility instead of staying in its tunnels.

[Gimli]

I'm failing to see any evidence that HPE is Kira,

We interrupting night news, because there's important message for us to show:

Spoiler: Public Announcement

"Hello, everyone. Person who rolled Public Announcement here. I just wanted to take the time to use it to give my thoughts here and now, in the event I die tonight for any reason. After reviewing Vanderscamp and Lorne's ISOs, I just want to say that I'm about 99% confident Gimli is Kira. Vanderscamp's odds of being a Follower are extremely high as I greatly doubt he would've counterclaimed Assistant like that as a Taskforce Member, and he physically could not be the actual Assistant as he would have known it was the Detective making the claim. So going off of that, it's clear to see that he very much was a 'yes man' to Gimli. Looking at his ISO, Gimli is mentioned 113 times in Ctrl+F, though some are of course from Gimli's actual posts, but either way most of these mentions are Vanderscamp gassing up Gimli: Sheeping or agreeing with his reads, vouching for his towniness, speaking of how he's not Kira/Scum or is a bad choice for elimination. In general, he was an extremely adamant defender of Gimli, and it surprises me that no one seems to particularly notice this when multiple slots raised eyebrows when StD came to Malakitten's defense, or when people came to KawaiiKame's defense. The same goes for Lorne Malvo, who despite being a mostly joking around not-so-serious slot, was unusually supportive of Gimli. Again, in a kind of shitposter way, but still it's there. As far as I'm aware, very few people have been as much of hardline supporters of Gimli as these two, let alone so consistently. Both have had minor disagreements with him, but the majority of their interactions with him are support and defense. Gimli has seemingly picked up on this, as he prominently defended Vanderscamp and tried to refute/discredit Malakittens during twilight after the Condemn. Lorne is the one out of place, as Gimli doesn't seem to do a lot in his favor, though obviously Kira is under no true obligation to protect his followers, and propping up Lorne as an elimination on a future day could be beneficial if he comes under pressure, a compromise vote or some such, or maybe an excuse to flip a switch and start townreading/towncasing him. Regardless, Vanderscamp's likelihood of being a Follower to Gimli is extremely high, and if you dislike the odds on the Malvo slot being one, then I offer an alternative: MegAzumarill. MegAzumarill, honestly on a second blush, is perhaps an even sturdier case for Follower, as they don't particularly say anything ill against Gimli, and similarly Gimli townreads them for a large percentage of the game outside of a single incident of suddenly doing a heel-face turn and wanting to eliminate MegAzumarill for a very short period of time (which he later said wasn't really a good play as is, and that he was just frustrated at the time) and some very minor incidents that can happen to even the best of genuine mutual townreads in any game. I have to personally admit that MegAzumarill is a townread of mine, but at the same time this analysis has given me a very good reason to also believe she is a deepwolfing Kira!Gimli follower. Anyway, I think I've rambled in hilarious and longwinded fashion enough now, so I will bid you all a good rest of the Night Phase now. And please do consider this carefully, too."

Feels genuinely solvey, same with the 1 v 1 with Gimli, HPE feels town

yeah I agree

[Gimli]

go kawaii

[Gimli]

I think he is just being dense but I wouldn't be surprised actually

[Gimli]

I'm glad we flushed down a follower last gameday. can you imagine d2 with two followers instead of just the one?

[Gimli]

You guys really are so tunneled I could probably out kira now and itd be not against my wincon

You didn't even take a second to think of why I did what I did. You're so smug and that will be your downfall.

lmao go ahead make it exciting

tell us who kira is

[Gimli]

I'm glad we flushed down a follower last gameday. can you imagine d2 with two followers instead of just the one?

Seems unwinnable in that scenario tbh. But then again I thought it was unwinnable after we lost mala but I actually think we got this

Vander didn't have to CC but I guess he thought outing the detective was worth it. If I was online when he did I would have claimed detective so Mala didn't have to and refused to use my shot. Kira would have had to use Assassinate on me because I had Incognito

nice thinking, maybe if mala waited a bit more so her assistant could counter vander's play yeah?

[Gimli]

it was actually kokichi forcing out a full claim if you wanna tinfoil on koki as follower

[Gimli]

Okay. As others have stated I think at this point, Mala you just should claim. You softed PR enough for Kira to likely realize by now

[Gimli]

like 99% unlikely

spewed non kira hard with vanderscamp interactions

[Gimli]

NM can be kira, or meg, or std, or less likely hpe

the only person in this pool who cannot be town is std

there are likely kira scenarios for each and everyone of them. if I was a follower to std, I'd be presenting those cases.

but the real problem is that std is only one without a town equity. if we hit anywhere else, it can be a follower, it can be a townie, or it can be kira. if we hit std, it can be follower or kira. this is sufficiently important that I think we should just make the sensible play. its the SENSIBLE play, not the 'well what if its meg/nm/hpe' play. so its what we're doing.

[Gimli]

Like, we could spend a few days arguing why it could/couldn't be HPE, Koki, or Meg...but are any of them going to be a better vote than the guy that claimed follower under serious pressure?

yup they'll never be better flips

[Gimli]

not too likely meg because vanderscamp was admonishing her in a few instances

more likely NM because lorne and vander interactions are minimum

want me to check std/lorne interactions?

[Gimli]

Spoiler: unfortunately it fucking works

i don't think that's a good poe, i'm not kira and i don't think it's mala or lorne tbh

i think that post by kawaii just now is potentially trying to buddy it doesn't actually say much of anything new

VOTE: kawaiikame

I'm confirming the logic in Gimli's poe via his pov, ofc it isn't saying anything new, sometimes a confirmation of logic is good
I'm with you in Lorne not being Kira, Lorne feels way too erratic/chaotic to be Kira, Lorne feels like Misa in this game
The main hole in Gimli's logic is not seeing Vand as Kira/follower in any event, that narrows down Kira to you/mala/lorne by poe
Who do you feel is Kira if I'm not Kira? Ik you see yourself as not Kira in your pov but I see Kira deflecting being Kira to me

i think a lot of people could still be kira. i haven't really ruled anyone out. some people seem really town but i think it's possible kira is on their best behavior trying to look town.

as far as likely suspects if you're not kira i think black is on-edge and that makes me nervous. i'd like to see more from megazu and vanderscamp, i know they look townie now but i need more data to determine for sure.

the only person i don't really think is kira is lorne because he feels a little too comfortable to joke about it and i think kira would be a less relaxed. he could be a follower but i don't know at this point.

i don't think that's a good poe, i'm not kira and i don't think it's mala or lorne tbh

i think that post by kawaii just now is potentially trying to buddy it doesn't actually say much of anything new

VOTE: kawaiikame

it's dumb but these posts feel like they come from someone who knows they're town, not someone pretending to be town

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzZZZzzzzZZZz

............

as for lorne, it has to do with what i said earlier he seems to be too jokey and comfortable calling himself kira and stuff. if i were kira, i probably wouldn't joke about it tbh

i don't think i want to lim lorne slot today

can't be kokichi, can't be meg, can't be not_mafia?

are you seeing those possibilities?

i can take a closer look but i don't see not_mafia due to lorne's play

[Gimli]

UNVOTE:

[Gimli]

I think the only time std as a follower would do this

is if he was playing with a guy who got banned and was a troll
and his replacement was fucking NM
he could go like lol let me troll this game and see if they can spot it

and I'm really sorry that that's an actual reality we can be living in

mafia is hard

[Gimli]

its really bad but vander and std work absurdly well as followers to not_mafia

[Gimli]

ye

[Gimli]

so, black, what do you think?

[Gimli]

he could've hammered now as well but I guess he wasn't around

[Gimli]

If you guys would rather go N_M then I could jump on board but if we lose to StD fakeclaiming follower I'm gonna be pissed lol

okay but do you think it works?

and also maybe its okay to let std win it if he did this thing as kira?

I understand it's not a very appropriate play, I'm not really confident enough that its NM to justify doing that. it's more of a mood. I don't rly care about winning past the point of solving mafia games unfortunately, even though I'll make arguments to what furthers our wincon the best which in this case would be flipping std. but idk. I think both kokichi and kawaii are reading some genuine behaviour from std here that maybe we should take into account.

[Gimli]

its not about their play koki. its about having the right conditionals with std and vanderscamp.

[Gimli]

its not about their play koki. its about having the right conditionals with std and vanderscamp.

can you explain? I don't get it

well I think NM is kira if std and vanderscamp are followers because they've interacted minimally with lorne and std was very strong townreading lorne whenever he spoke about lorne. I quoted all std's townreads on lorne in the other page, have you read it?

and if you think std is a follower then it makes no sense that hpe is kira. and like hpe's play isn't kiraesque, idek why you think it's still it.

[Gimli]

VOTE: save the dragons

yeah you're right lets just kill him

[Gimli]

an ocean of wifom std, congratulations

[Gimli]

lmao

[Gimli]

yeah makes sense

even if kawaii votes we won't hammer now, right? i think kawaii should vote

[Gimli]

that looks like std wants to vote hpe as soon as its not awkward to do so

[Gimli]

im completely convinced hpe is town fwiw

[Gimli]

we're E-1 and std didn't hammer yet?

[Gimli]

I think we're E-1. that's good. we either already lost to follower std cause he'll come around and hammer, or he won't and that means he is outed as kira.

@not_mafia can you come here and hammer?

[Gimli]

this might be first time this one's seen a game of mafia itself go through the stages of grief

the important thing is we had fun

or did we

btw I hope I wasn't too draining to deal with

[Gimli]

If we win this bc of you then I'll probably just love you forever

yeah its my bad for trying to kill your detective

[Gimli]

if koki is follower I'm sure he is a mountain of salt rn

[Gimli]

I think we won?

[Gimli]

ONE DIVINE HAMMEEEEEEEEEEEEEER
DIVINE HAMMEEEEEEEEEEEEER

[Gimli]

Who’s on E-1?

save the dragons

[Gimli]

[Gimli]

YESSSSSSSSSS

gg town!

black my new fav <3 love the hypersolve

also everyone was amazing hope to play with you all again

thank you enchant for modding, I thought the setup was brilliant. high praise.

[Gimli]

do you think if StD just didn't claim that he would've won

maybe, but much less likely

[Gimli]

I'm satisfied with my play tbh. I called Vander in 173, contributed to making Kira crack in 2061, and then called Koki follower here in the endgame

Mala I hope I made you proud

Gimli you dropped this....

black mvp

[Gimli]

Enchant you did well and I have no issues, thank you for modding it! It was fun besides you know the one time where I vented, but then slept and woke up not wanting to strangle gimli (sorry bro)

haha

well I caught kira so you have to forgive me now

[Gimli]

Did I win?

yes

[Gimli]

If you host again, consider this a /pre-in

same

well, not really for the next few months but after that

also gg kokichi you did really well again, nice wolf skills