Newbie 2114: Life Imitates Art...in Memes! -- End

[patchwork]

anyways yeah i hammered twice in a row on accident both times and i also haven't read 48 or 47 on (don't remember) so i'm gonna do that now

[patchwork]

i dont have the energy for this right now, just gonna fos kanna

[Kanna]

well.

if the majority think I’m one of, if not the most, scummiest person and want me to vote first (so scum!me can’t quickhammer) — that’s fine by me. I’ll do so whenever you guys are ready. I’ll be reviewing things in the meantime and share my thoughts soon.

if you’re town, PLEASE don’t vote unless you’re 100% sure, as scum can quickhammer if just 1 town votes town. also PLEASE listen to everyone first. There is plenty of time so even if you think you are sure about someone, giving them a chance to speak doesn’t hurt

i’ll be here a bit later

[Kanna]

it took me 3 days, 2 mislims and 2 complete scum team theories…..but this time, I’ve got it for real…



preface: I wanted to see how dragon and patch entered the day and it is a lol

anyway, I reviewed the game during the night and I am SURE the team is dragon/patch.

for the rest of the day, I’ll be trying to convince you two town (elpis/bewo) of my solve.
To do this, I’ll not only explain why that solve is the right one but also why any other solves are wrong, including why I can’t be scum here. PLEASE read with an open mind, town

here are the bullet points

- bewo is town because they are not playing aligned with anyone, they have brazen takes even when they are in danger and everyone is ok to kill them.

- elpis is town because they’ve been obvtown on play and I believe the townslip was genuine

- patch is scum for the hammer and dumb telling. like this is not patch’s first game and it’s ridiculous to think they think they can unvote a hammer. plus that hammer yesterday does not come from town.

- Dragon was actually super scummy yesterday, I was just too stupid and pocketed to read his posts properly. Also alisae yelling at me that I was scum and aureal’s insistence of scum!ali made me see things unclearly

- I understand there’s been some heavy shade cast onto me by dead town but I literally do not have a partner that makes sense in this game. ill try to prove this in my later posts, but the bottom line is that that also makes me town. more on this later

- dragon/patch tick all the boxes which I expect to see from scum in a newbie game — as in background townreading each other, no significant interactions and no bussing. they are also scummy individually. more on this later

- patch and dragon do not make sense as scum with anyone else other than each other. more on this later

[Kanna]

I am never aligned with patch because of these

Spoiler:

i think the dragon vote is a little dumb
last newbie we wagoned him for sucking a ton in RVS, i don't think it's inherently AI to say he's bad at rvs because it reminds me of his play last game and he feels like he's coming into this game with an "oh boy please don't wagon me for being goofy in RVS" view because that happened last time

also on aeronaut: i think he's fine

VOTE: Ircher

bewolkt kawaii are all in null
might actually move maestro down to null as well, i can't read them very well i lied
top sr right now is ircher i think, it's hard to get conclusive reads on people at pg3

Pretty sure it's Maestro/Dragon at this point tbh.

explain why instead of making an unwarranted claim. not saying i neccesarily disagree, that's an interesting take and i want to see why you think th at

I want to give Maestro a chance to speak and redeem themselves first.

literally just answer the question, they literally already posted VOTE: ircher
will that motivate you more?

ircher was not a particularly strong presence in thread so it would be dangerous to wagon him like this if they were a team. furthermore, ircher kinda just ignores them so it’s not like they’ve planned this bus to make either of them look any better. this is more like a classic scum d1 town push

we have fourteen hours but i rlly don't think i have time do do a reread rn, sorry
kanna continuing to push andante even after tracker claim is anti-town at best and informed at worst, but i will analyze it later this evening if i have time
VOTE: kanna

most of all, *this* is utterly unnecessary if I was scum partners with them like. It’s clear they wanted to lim me and then use the excuse of being a deadline thing. no one would criticise them if they didn’t make this post and it’s so easy to fake inactivity as they already said they were busy so why would they make that post if we were partners? they have nothing to gain and a whole half of their team to lose

they then leave their vote on me 5ever. they really do not care about me

Alisae has even said it here

we have fourteen hours but i rlly don't think i have time do do a reread rn, sorry
kanna continuing to push andante even after tracker claim is anti-town at best and informed at worst, but i will analyze it later this evening if i have time
VOTE: kanna

This vote probably doesn't happen if Patch is a wolf with Kanna.

[Kanna]

like I said, bewo is town, but I’m not letting anyone entertain the idea of a bewo/kanna scum team either. bewo has been pushing me based on the claim thing the entire game which does not happen if we’re partners like. his pushes are not play-fight pushes and they happen when the masons were scumreading me. the masons. if I did get limmed, that means our plan as a scum team would be for bewo to win, which is not that likely as bewo is scumread by most of the playerlist and does not post often. honestly, it would make much more sense if *i* bussed them as I am a more active and forefront player, took the credit for their scum lim and ran with it (if we even wanted to bus in the first place). but yeah, bewo does not pour cold water on me for no reason and keep reminding people of the claim thing which even the masons scumread me for (which confirms it comes from a town pov)

[Kanna]

why I’m not partners with dragon: if you look at our interactions, he was clearly trying to pocket me

Spoiler:

I noticed all or most of the things you did and came to the same conclusion - it's weird, it could be towny but it could also be scum trying too hard.
since I don't have better scumreads and since you say Aero's replacement is locktown, do you think we should go for the Aureal flip?

RE: #1237
Alisae there's no way I can get through that wall of text with my sanity intact.
I'll say one thing:
Unlike Kanna I wasn't locktowning you at any point yesterday. And I was saying repeatedly that while you were giving town vibes you just as easily could be powerwolfing.
I am not sure if I said it in thread or just to myself, but I was thinking yesterday that your interaction with Aureal was definitely SvT and I wasn't sure who was the townie. So now that Aureal flip I know she was the townie and you were the scum. It's just that simple.
You can twist my own words and yours however you want, but the point stands that I was more suspicious of you on D1 than you were of me, and my push on you is a lot more natural than your push on me.
and yes, I KNOW you are scum because I KNOW that I and Kawaii are town, and I also know that Kanna is town with 99% probability. So from the people on the wagon it leaves you and Patch, who just so happen to be the scum team.

like this is just not how you talk to your partner. (and boy I was pocketed yesterday… T_T)

I know when people are buddy buddy, it seems like they’re connected/scum together, but precisely for that reason, usually the people who are buddy buddy in thread, *aren’t* actually connected/scum together. it’s just not advantageous to highlight your connection and trying to fake it has a big risk of being awkward. in fact, I think most scum just avoid each other for the sole reason that interacting with each other is awkward. these are natural and it’s because we’re unaligned and he *was* trying to pocket me

also look at dragon blatantly appealing to me in 714. he didn’t get it was a joke but he was just willing to do what I wanted to do

also scum typically don’t put their partner as their top townread or say they are “99% town” because there is a part of them that wants to be right and they cannot with good conscience put their scum partner at the top because they know their partner is lying. their top town is likely to be an actual town player who looks especially towny to them.

while I do think this is sufficient, this might be my weakest case if alisae thought we were still connected?

in the case that’s it’s not enough, I can meta case why both me and ircher are strongly in our town meta. I don’t really want it to come to this actually, because I like to play fair and this is low key cheating because ircher and I are both bad at scum :# but I do want to win, especially so because I feel SO bad for literally being blind about dragon yesterday. and it’s not against the rules so I will do this if you need it to believe me

do I really need to case why I’m not scum with elpis? I feel like we blatantly don’t fit, but if bewo is scared about this possibility, I’ll do so too

and if I’m not partners with anyone, I must be town!

[DragonEater70]

preface: I wanted to see how dragon and patch entered the day and it is a lol

First of all, what the hell does this mean? "it is a lol"?

Second of all, why specifically us?

[DragonEater70]

Kanna you were locktowning me how couuuuld youuuu.
are you for real for real saying I'm scum with Patch? I don't know if I should laugh or cry.

[DragonEater70]

Being town I know 100% that Kanna's theory of {every other possible solve is false} is wrong, so with that in mind let me deep dive into it and see what logical fallacies I'll find.
Still curious if Kanna is town or scum, though.

[Kanna]

as for why dragon and patch are scum…

I didn’t realise it before alisae mentioned it but dragon really does has a thing for lining up town lims lol. he creates false dichotomies and is prepared to use flip information to push whoever comes out looking “worse”

Spoiler:

This a good case, I was already planning to vote Maestro (before the replacement). It explains why I couldn't find any possible Maestro/Andante partner, too!
VOTE: Andante
Hopefully their flip will clear up quite a lot in terms of reads.
For instance if they flip town I'm far likelier to sr Kanna.
VOTE:

Hey agreed, I think atm I'm 100% sure there's a scum in {Aureal, Alisae}. We can flip one and then the other if the first is town.

because town are uninformed, they can’t HELP looking bad sometimes. this is because they don’t know all the answers. dragon however does and even plans it out showing how far he’s thinking ahead

he also says like this which is actually major tmi. from an uninformed position, there really is no way to guess stuff like how many scum are on wagon, if "we have the most passive mafia" etc. he says this because he knows and he can't help but let his inform-ness slip

Spoiler:

don't wanna believe it's alisae because i liked their playstyle but now i'm gonna have to give that slot some second though

It is Alisae.
The evidence is this:
Both Andante and Aureal weren't voting Aureal, so there was at least 1 scum on the wagon. I honestly think it was 2, because if Aureal was indeed town then there's really no reason to suspect Elpis, and very little reason to suspect bewollt.
So again, probably 2 scum on the wagon, and it's not me or Kawaii. From your POV it's not you either so ot must be Alisae and Kanna.
Furthermore, Alisae was seriously powerwolfing yesterday ever since she joined. I can't believe she's a VT after she led this miselim. That would require us to have thw most passive mafia that ever existed, and I kinda doubt that.
Third point, mafia killed Andante who was the main person suspecting Alisae.

you can also read the points about dragon from both dead town aureal and alisae. I’m not saying to blindly deadsheep, but just read the points there. they’ve covered up dragon’s slip ups quite well

as for patch, their general play has actually been very shallow with minimal strong opinions all around. most of their posts really is just narrating what they are doing like “I’m going to get milk, ok I’ve got the milk”. their shear presence has fooled a lot of people into thinking they’re towny, but if you look at the content, it’s just not there. but the main reason they’re scum is because they’ve also now hammered twice and tried to shirk responsibility, not having a strong opinion one way or another about it — this should be very telling. especially yesterday’s hammer, like I consider that scumclaim. town don’t just “accidentally hammer” town, go “oh my god sorry!” but then vanish right after. they didn’t care one bit that they hammered alisae

as for their play coming into the day, they’ve just both fossed me because they’re going for the win.

pedit: getting to that don't you worry. i have a whole book here

[DragonEater70]

Also Kanna, you are SURE me and Patch are scum the same way you were SURE that someone would CC Andante, right?

[DragonEater70]

it took me 3 days, 2 mislims and 2 complete scum team theories…..but this time, I’ve got it for real…



preface: I wanted to see how dragon and patch entered the day and it is a lol

anyway, I reviewed the game during the night and I am SURE the team is dragon/patch.

for the rest of the day, I’ll be trying to convince you two town (elpis/bewo) of my solve.
To do this, I’ll not only explain why that solve is the right one but also why any other solves are wrong, including why I can’t be scum here. PLEASE read with an open mind, town

here are the bullet points

- bewo is town because they are not playing aligned with anyone, they have brazen takes even when they are in danger and everyone is ok to kill them.

- elpis is town because they’ve been obvtown on play and I believe the townslip was genuine

- patch is scum for the hammer and dumb telling. like this is not patch’s first game and it’s ridiculous to think they think they can unvote a hammer. plus that hammer yesterday does not come from town.

- Dragon was actually super scummy yesterday, I was just too stupid and pocketed to read his posts properly. Also alisae yelling at me that I was scum and aureal’s insistence of scum!ali made me see things unclearly

- I understand there’s been some heavy shade cast onto me by dead town but I literally do not have a partner that makes sense in this game. ill try to prove this in my later posts, but the bottom line is that that also makes me town. more on this later

- dragon/patch tick all the boxes which I expect to see from scum in a newbie game — as in background townreading each other, no significant interactions and no bussing. they are also scummy individually. more on this later

- patch and dragon do not make sense as scum with anyone else other than each other. more on this later

Patch hammer was stupid af, and a double stupid hammer is even less justifiable, I can agree with that.
However I fail to see your scumread on me. Please elaborate.

[DragonEater70]

Bewo tr is dumb af.

[DragonEater70]

I was thinking if Kanna was scum then their partner is Patch, now I think scum!Kanna's partner must be Bewo.
Unless Kanna is beautifully bussing Patch because they are actually aiming for a lim on me which is entirely possible because they know that me, being town, won't agree to a compromise lim in Elo ajd therefore there would never be enough votes to lim Patch anyway.
But I'm overspeculating here.
Let me just read Kanna's beautiful theory first.

[Kanna]

dragon and patch partnery interactions

their greetings to each other are worth pointing out. to me, they look pretty awkward and forced as if just made for the purpose of interacting with each other but that is more of an opinion

Spoiler:

i was Not Awake when teh game started but im here now
hiii o/

Morning Patch (it's night where I am).

Patch can probably tell you all about it.

BAHAHA TRUE

but the strangest part is: if they know each other though, why don’t they talk more? why does it stop after these interactions? you can take alisae and i for an example. we are confirmed not aligned and we know each other so we interact a fair bit in thread, both acknowledging each other’s existence and talking directly to each other. another example is alisae and andante — same thing

but not dragon and patch

this is especially jarring after stuff like this implying they are quite close. why may they stop interacting you ask? well maybe they had another way of communicating?

Patch can probably tell you all about it.

BAHAHA TRUE

soft defences of each other

Spoiler:

bewolkt v dragon feels very tvt to me, in my opinion. i will second the take that bewolkt absolutely does come out looking more towny, though. their push on dragon feels like it's out of genuine doubt, rather than scum finding someone to prey on through a sort of reverse confirmation bias.
then there's aero. i still like his play. more of a vibe read than anything else.
then there's dragon, hovering Sort Of above null. unsure how to read him, he comes off sort of the same as he did in 2112, a little eccentric, a little unsure of who he should quite trust.. it feels towny, but i also could just be reading him wrong. i'll probably have to iso him.

(dragon was shaded by aero saying bewo looked better)

votes Ircher here and says Aero is "fine"

but offers no context for either

of those really - if voting Ircher because of Dragon, say this

at this point was when I stopped caring about

patchwork's tendency to offer small, helpful posts useful for Newbie purposes but devoid of any useful in-game information whatsoever

- I thought going into this that pw was the one I had seen most often doing this, it is often a common tactic from Scum to appear "helpful" even if they're...

not doing anything helpful to the gamestate, they're just being "nice" or giving small tips

about the site meta or the little buttons Newbies need to get used to using (also they dropped a "post 69" joke, what are we, 12 years old?)

I'd argue that none of these is SAI (Scum Alignment Indicative) for Patchwork. In fact, I am going to quote two recent games in which Patchwork did these things (or worse):
-snip-

(patch shaded by maestro)

and does it not just make a lot of sense that scum!patch hammered alisae because they were gunning for dragon? alisae is indeed very Strong and left unattended, I think they might’ve been able to turn the lim towards dragon. so patch hammered them. you can also see dragon’s relief later on which I believe is genuine — dragon really could not outargue alisae

and otherwise, they've been playing the classic scum game of not going after each other and keeping each other in their null town reads

[Kanna]

Spoiler: to alisae

i’m so sorry. you were actually right yesterday about dragon and i shouldn’t have quickvoted you out of emotion. to be fair, I never would’ve guessed that you’d be quickhammered by scum!patch. I wish things were different; I enjoyed working alongside you d1 even though I was wrong. and I really think I would’ve come around eventually yesterday too, I just needed more time. but i see the REAL light now. I can’t say for sure I can avenge you, but I’ll sure try my best!

[Kanna]

I’ll be back for more

I am legit going to give it my ALL this elo because I really feel so bad for pretty much being 3rd scum this whole game. bewo and elpis, PLEASE engage with me and let me try to convince you.

I am CONFIDENT I’ll be able to explain anything because I have the truth on my side!

p.s I just love how dragon is flip flopping between trying to accuse me/discredit me but not really sure how to say I’m scum. it’s ok! I still love you even if you’re scum dragon! I was very comfy in your pocket <3

[DragonEater70]

Honestly I like Kanna's argument against Patch and Kanna scumteam.
I agree that I am not scum with Kanna in any possible world, but then I also know I am town.
I'm unconvinced about the arguments against Kanna/Elpis and Kanna/Bewo. They would've been valid in a world where the scum team this game made sense. But the scum team DOESN'T make sense this game. Otherwise we would've already limmed one of the scum.
So I am actually going to do a combined bewo/kanna ISO and a combined Elpis/Kanna ISO.
Still I thibk there's a big possibility that Kanna is town but I am not sure if I am willing to bet the game on it without looking at all possibilities.


Also, I just want to say that I

wish

I were scum with Kanna as Alisae said I were. That would've been so epic because our victory would've been pretty much guaranteed in this ELo (all we had to do was have Kanna make this beautiful analysis to nake us look unaligned, and then reach a "compromise" and vote Patch out).
Unfortunately I'm not scum with Kanna so this sucks.

[DragonEater70]

I’ll be back for more

I am legit going to give it my ALL this elo because I really feel so bad for pretty much being 3rd scum this whole game. bewo and elpis, PLEASE engage with me and let me try to convince you.

I am CONFIDENT I’ll be able to explain anything because I have the truth on my side!

p.s I just love how dragon is flip flopping between trying to accuse me/discredit me but not really sure how to say I’m scum. it’s ok! I still love you even if you’re scum dragon! I was very comfy in your pocket <3

I can't see you being scum but I simultaneously know I'm town so it's a bit of a tough position.
love you too <3

[DragonEater70]

as for their play coming into the day, they’ve just both fossed me because they’re going for the win.

That's a lie, I didn't FoS you. I FoSed Patch and Bewolkt.

[DragonEater70]

dragon and patch partnery interactions

their greetings to each other are worth pointing out. to me, they look pretty awkward and forced as if just made for the purpose of interacting with each other but that is more of an opinion

Spoiler:

i was Not Awake when teh game started but im here now
hiii o/

Morning Patch (it's night where I am).

Patch can probably tell you all about it.

BAHAHA TRUE

but the strangest part is: if they know each other though, why don’t they talk more? why does it stop after these interactions? you can take alisae and i for an example. we are confirmed not aligned and we know each other so we interact a fair bit in thread, both acknowledging each other’s existence and talking directly to each other. another example is alisae and andante — same thing

but not dragon and patch

this is especially jarring after stuff like this implying they are quite close. why may they stop interacting you ask? well maybe they had another way of communicating?

Patch can probably tell you all about it.

BAHAHA TRUE

soft defences of each other

Spoiler:

bewolkt v dragon feels very tvt to me, in my opinion. i will second the take that bewolkt absolutely does come out looking more towny, though. their push on dragon feels like it's out of genuine doubt, rather than scum finding someone to prey on through a sort of reverse confirmation bias.
then there's aero. i still like his play. more of a vibe read than anything else.
then there's dragon, hovering Sort Of above null. unsure how to read him, he comes off sort of the same as he did in 2112, a little eccentric, a little unsure of who he should quite trust.. it feels towny, but i also could just be reading him wrong. i'll probably have to iso him.

(dragon was shaded by aero saying bewo looked better)

votes Ircher here and says Aero is "fine"

but offers no context for either

of those really - if voting Ircher because of Dragon, say this

at this point was when I stopped caring about

patchwork's tendency to offer small, helpful posts useful for Newbie purposes but devoid of any useful in-game information whatsoever

- I thought going into this that pw was the one I had seen most often doing this, it is often a common tactic from Scum to appear "helpful" even if they're...

not doing anything helpful to the gamestate, they're just being "nice" or giving small tips

about the site meta or the little buttons Newbies need to get used to using (also they dropped a "post 69" joke, what are we, 12 years old?)

I'd argue that none of these is SAI (Scum Alignment Indicative) for Patchwork. In fact, I am going to quote two recent games in which Patchwork did these things (or worse):
-snip-

(patch shaded by maestro)

and does it not just make a lot of sense that scum!patch hammered alisae because they were gunning for dragon? alisae is indeed very Strong and left unattended, I think they might’ve been able to turn the lim towards dragon. so patch hammered them. you can also see dragon’s relief later on which I believe is genuine — dragon really could not outargue alisae

and otherwise, they've been playing the classic scum game of not going after each other and keeping each other in their null town reads

Dude I'm not close to Patch.
I queued into this game, Patch was the only player I've played with before, it was RVS so I made some banter.
The reason I haven't interacted with them since is there was nothing in their posts to interact with? There just wasn't.
have a look at Newbie 2112, Patch and I were both town and I think I only spoke directly to patch like once or twice.

[DragonEater70]

I’ll be back for more

I am legit going to give it my ALL this elo because I really feel so bad for pretty much being 3rd scum this whole game. bewo and elpis, PLEASE engage with me and let me try to convince you.

I am CONFIDENT I’ll be able to explain anything because I have the truth on my side!

p.s I just love how dragon is flip flopping between trying to accuse me/discredit me but not really sure how to say I’m scum. it’s ok! I still love you even if you’re scum dragon! I was very comfy in your pocket <3

At least one of those two (or you) is scum. That's unfortunate but it's also true.

[bewolkt]

Going to read Kanna's theories now, but first:
Patch, where did you think Alisae was trying to pocket you? I'm having a look at D2 and I'm not really seeing any of that

lisae are you trying to pocket me ??y?
VOTE: alisae

FUCK
IM SORRY I ONLY READ UP TO LIKE PAGE 49 IM SORRY MAN
WHY DOES THIS KEEP HAPPENING
PEDIY: I WONT

[DragonEater70]

Anyway I thought Maestro's scumread on Patch was bs and clearly based on not knowing patch's meta. However rn I think Patch is more likely than not to be scum due to the hammers and weird behavior towards the end of D1.
And also saying "my bad fir not contributing" is actually SAI for Patch because in the other game (wehre they were town) they actually got really upset when it was implied they were not conteibuting (IIRC, I might actually be wrong here, I am too tired to actually go check their ISO on the other game).
So my FoS stays on Patch.
As for Bewo, I am going to do a combined ISO with both Patch and with Kanna. But this will be after I've had some sleep.