Mini Normal 2294: Monkey Business (Endgame)

[Ausuka]

Why are you trying to convince me I'm scum lmao

[Comus]

Ausuka, get real.

[Ausuka]

k

[Enchant]

We always can use dice

[geraintm]

catching up form yesterday

at this point I want elsa to fullclaim cause I agree with comus that 'modified' cop is a little ???? and then she gives me a hard green anyway? how modified is that lmao

as a matter of principle, i don't like forcing people to claim all the time, and certainly not force them if they know withholding some info benefits town. sometimes it is in scum's favour to get the full claim.
but as this is gimli doing it, no naughty points here

[geraintm]

Elsa Jay + KawaiiKame + Ausuka(?)

The monkeys were pretty clear.

And Kokichi you better vote one of them soon. 'Oh Elsa isn't going through let me vote Comus with Ausuka because.... let me vote Comus with Ausuka.' Not even amusing, just sad.

Elsa doesn't claim modifier, isn't a cop. KawaiiKame isn't a hider. I have Ausuka as their wolf friend for now, makes sense, but the greater certainty lies on Elsa and Kawaii. I'd be willing to give Ausuka a chance, a very small one though, to shpw ke she isn't third wolf. Going off Day Two, dubious. Ausuka needs Elsa and Kawaii's claims believed. That looks crimson.

I honestly cannot understand your reads. I feel like you've scumread everyone so far.

i agree, i have switched off from them, their posts are basically invisible to me

[geraintm]

We're still waiting for that modifier Elsa. I'll let you cook.

As I said to gera, I'll case this, what fun that's gonna be.

I'm a Soul Cop. I visit and get a Soul Read on the person. Usually very accurate.

I also Jailkeep them on the side but that's a different matter entirely.

VOTE: Comus

oh.
see, this is why i always get in trouble for believing people's claims.
going to modify my claims post now....

[geraintm]

Comus is using ChatGPT to come up with his reads.

Yes!

[geraintm]

No i mean Jailkeeper is ez confirmable.

Just need to use it on pair with Visionary on someone else and yep.

is this right? i am no good at all with how roles play together. but if the two slots can confirm each other then i am likely to believe them because doing that is the sort of thing a mod would do.

[geraintm]

UNVOTE: Elsa Jay

I can't trust this new jailkeeper claim, or anything Elsa says anymore.

So, You don't trust them.
but you unvote them?
did the AI tell you to dothat?

[Enchant]

No i mean Jailkeeper is ez confirmable.

Just need to use it on pair with Visionary on someone else and yep.

is this right? i am no good at all with how roles play together. but if the two slots can confirm each other then i am likely to believe them because doing that is the sort of thing a mod would do.

Visionary can visit player with Jailkeeper. This player will learn what actions was used on them.

If Visionary die, it doesh't stop: Message still will be received.
If target die, Jailkeeper is fake: Otherwise kill would be blocked.


So yeah, you need roleblocker at minimum to break that.

[geraintm]

i think i need to summerise for myself who i think is most likely to be scum based on what i've looked at

Melanque

if you think I'm scum then can you engage me on the why? I asked you a question before which fair enough if you missed, but why does it make me scummier to be working to establish consensus on lims?

also, it's Menalque

Sorry for spelling name wrong

i said you were most likely to be scum, not that i was sure (if i had been sure i would have voted you but i didnt, and i think i even said to another player i had an imaginary vote on them). i went through the votes, and the way and when you got onto the wagon and your reasoning just to me made you the person most likely to be scum.

i've got nothing else but actions to go on, and the result of the few night actions we've been told about. when i was going over everyone, you were the person who stood out the most.

does that make sense?

[geraintm]

how would you feel about voting enchant with me, klick?

your last few posts aren't great. giving someone a pass because of a dead person's read.
putting out vague feelers with another player to start a wagon.
all too back seat.

[geraintm]

the fundamental question is always: who can I get the votes on?

regardless of if you're town or scum. I think I can get the votes on you and that you have a decent chance of flipping scum

what??
this reads awful.
this reads like what scum would be saying in their scum chat - yet you said it all out loud???

[geraintm]

elsa, strange times lead to strange bedfellows... how would you feel about supporting an enchant lim today?

i...i have no words. reading your posts in order im just flabbergasted

[geraintm]

Surely no one sincerely believes that Elsa is a jailkeeper

geraintm believes

i'm just Mulder

[Comus]

ooh, while you're here, i'd like you to explain in depth why you thought me saying elsa jay was fakeclaiming was gaslighting

please show me the town POV here, almighty comus

I'll humor you this once, semantically, ignoring the fact that this question exists only so you can have an excuse to dig into your mono-trench and try to lure others into it.

My understanding of gaslighting was it being synonymous with 'undermining.' I recall duckduckgoing the term... shortly after, not sure if it was before or after your and enchant's response, I'm pretty sure before? My mind says immediately after I posted, whatever.

Gaslighting is brainwashing, or whatever. This I learned at least.

I wasn't born English so I have little emotional attachment to it, and the puritanical zeidgeist of 'abuse words' in general amuses me, as you termed this.
At that point in time my intention was to state 'undermining' not 'mk-ultraing.'

This isn't an explanation for my behavior, I'm not going that distance with you because you're openwolfing and I'm not going to add fuel to your fire. Not anything at all really, mostly an out-of-game aside. I'd like to see if you twist it into your narrative though.

[Comus]

UNVOTE: Elsa Jay

I can't trust this new jailkeeper claim, or anything Elsa says anymore.

So, You don't trust them.
but you unvote them?
did the AI tell you to dothat?

You are a null entity in this game. Your menalque tunnel is horrible. Everything else you say flirts with utter blandness and overall your non-engagement day two shines through like a caldera in the night. Talk to me once you start hunting actual scum.

Regardless of alignmnet I'll hammer you for boring me, that's how I feel about your input.

[geraintm]

and Gera and someone else disappearing.

ive been gone less than 24 hours?

[geraintm]

I'm probably never killing enchant this game btw

VOTE: elsa

you know what fine lets kill elsa

[geraintm]

Menal, Klick. You two replaced in. Solve this game for us plz.

I’m trying to but everyone is too focused on their pet reads or 1v1s to actually get a functioning town going overall, let alone a townbloc

I’m probably willing to vote kokichi atp, shocked to find myself saying this but I agree with comus, the readslist was astonishingly bad

no you are not. you are all like "who can i flip that isn't me?" or "random player X, you wanna go halves with me on a miselimination?"

you ain't solving at all

[geraintm]

No i mean Jailkeeper is ez confirmable.

Just need to use it on pair with Visionary on someone else and yep.

is this right? i am no good at all with how roles play together. but if the two slots can confirm each other then i am likely to believe them because doing that is the sort of thing a mod would do.

Visionary can visit player with Jailkeeper. This player will learn what actions was used on them.

If Visionary die, it doesh't stop: Message still will be received.
If target die, Jailkeeper is fake: Otherwise kill would be blocked.


So yeah, you need roleblocker at minimum to break that.

that's good to know, thanks
i ain;t touching Ausuku and Elsa today and assume they will work things out tonight between themselves

[geraintm]

Comus - VT
KawaiiKame - hider
ausuka - loud visionary
Elsa Jay -

Cop

Jailkeeper??? and maybe clear on Gimli ???
Enchant - had claimed

bodyguard

but i am making the assumption now that isn't true

Elsa - was visited by unknown player - confirmed to be Asuku by Elsa

VOTE: Menalque
sorry, i know this isn't where anyone else is but i just can't see how this doesn't have a higher than anyone else chance of being scum

[Enchant]

I can actually sheep that

[Menalque]

i think i need to summerise for myself who i think is most likely to be scum based on what i've looked at

Melanque

if you think I'm scum then can you engage me on the why? I asked you a question before which fair enough if you missed, but why does it make me scummier to be working to establish consensus on lims?

also, it's Menalque

Sorry for spelling name wrong

i said you were most likely to be scum, not that i was sure (if i had been sure i would have voted you but i didnt, and i think i even said to another player i had an imaginary vote on them). i went through the votes, and the way and when you got onto the wagon and your reasoning just to me made you the person most likely to be scum.

i've got nothing else but actions to go on, and the result of the few night actions we've been told about. when i was going over everyone, you were the person who stood out the most.

does that make sense?

I know, I don't think I said that you were sure I was scum either. However, I'm fairly sure you're town and due to my feeling that this town is generally speaking fairly dysfunctional, I consider it higher priority than normal to try and get you to understand me/see that I'm also town but just coming at the game differently

if you're truly wedded to the idea that only actions can tell us what alignment people are this may be a lost cause, but worth a shot

I'd now like to go through some of your other posts on me

Menal, Klick. You two replaced in. Solve this game for us plz.

I’m trying to but everyone is too focused on their pet reads or 1v1s to actually get a functioning town going overall, let alone a townbloc

I’m probably willing to vote kokichi atp, shocked to find myself saying this but I agree with comus, the readslist was astonishingly bad

no you are not. you are all like "who can i flip that isn't me?" or "random player X, you wanna go halves with me on a miselimination?"

you ain't solving at all

firstly this: just because the way I solve is not the same way you solve or how you expect people to solve doesn't make it not solving.

what I mean is basically this: I am not good at spotting scum. I learned this from playing plenty of games and while occasionally getting it right, only managing to at best hit two members of a team and often after limming town who were doing things I thought were scummy.

so now my approach is simpler and something I'm stealing from an interview with Thor665 from a post I read over at mafia451 (https://forum.mafia451.com/t/thor665-ponders-mafia/1113). basically everything is scummy and nothing is scummy -- scum players do all sorts of shit and I realised that a decent number of my scum wins were because I did something town thought would be suboptimal for scum to do and therefore they mentally cleared me.

this is also why I'm somewhat indifferent about the flip -- so long as it's not someone I townread, I don't expect to necessarily be on scum, I'm just trying to get to the point where I have enough TRs I'm confident in that if I can then lim all the remaining players it should get all the scum even if some town are limmed along the way

elsa, strange times lead to strange bedfellows... how would you feel about supporting an enchant lim today?

i...i have no words. reading your posts in order im just flabbergasted

hence this -- I'm leaning away from limming Elsa. I don't exactly want to get into why, and I don't feel strongly Elsa is town so I wouldn't cry about it, but I need votes to lim people who aren't in my town list (namely, you, gimli, comus) and Elsa has a vote. my feelings on Elsa being potential scum doesn't preclude me from asking for her support to lim someone else I think could be scum

the fundamental question is always: who can I get the votes on?

regardless of if you're town or scum. I think I can get the votes on you and that you have a decent chance of flipping scum

what??
this reads awful.
this reads like what scum would be saying in their scum chat - yet you said it all out loud???

and I mean... this is just true? it does me absolutely zero good to sit there yelling about how someone is scum if there clearly isn't enough support for limming them within thread and my attempts to persuade people about it aren't working.

it's much more sensible to consider who I think is limmable on a given day and then try to steer it towards people I don't think are town

how would you feel about voting enchant with me, klick?

your last few posts aren't great. giving someone a pass because of a dead person's read.
putting out vague feelers with another player to start a wagon.
all too back seat.

lastly -- and I hope now the back seat-ness and the vague feelers thing are explained -- why would I not give a pass for a dead player's read? fmpov I know that I can trust MG to have been sincere because she's flipped and she said she was incredibly confident that kawaii was town. I may not like that, but I trust MG as a player in general and I don't think my perceptions of the game are necessarily right. if I feel like 50% that kawaii is scum, for instance, and MG tells me that she's 90% on kawaii town and I KNOW that MG is town... why not trust the person who feels more confident?