Micro 1073: Purgatory - Game Over!

[Enchant]

At this point let's just hope Aira plays better because i have no hope for Drew either.

It's more likely than average.

I think Town>Mafia elims still should win game. While mafia have high grip at gamestate, mechanically we are at advantage.

[Ranger]

I'll ask you too. What is the 'flaw in my solve' other than it just apparently being impossible for Vander to be bussing you because you say so? You're both just huffing that it's impossible, which doesn't do anything to convince me that you aren't working together.

Well for a start, actions in the game.
I had the opportunity to send Vanderscamp to heaven. I did not.
Vanderscamp has been voting me the entirety of the game, including times where I am placed to L-1.

The words are backed by actions, and are not just words. Objectively, no solve is

impossible

. Any team could happen.

Suggesting that team is disingenous, because the actions and words both back up it being quite unlikely.

By the way, where does this come from?

From a post that got eaten by the thread being locked.

When I said "end of hell 1", I meant

end

of hell 1. I was making a post detailing my suspicion when the thread was locked. My immediate heaven1 posting was recreating the post I lost there, but I admit you've only my word it was typed during hell1.

How is that a scum action? Wouldn't ScumMe just lurk with everyone else and let a town you get mis-elimed? Especially since I already prod dodged, I didn't need to post more.

From my perspective, your posts look exactly like lurking and waiting for me to get mislimmed.


661, 663, 665 are all empty posts. You literally said in 668 you were basically prod-dodging, but you took the stance your prod-dodging was some form of deliberate gambit.

[Ranger]

Ranger, if I'm to believe you're town, what sort of scumteam am I supposed to believe is reasonable? Bella and AV feel town from their posting style, so that would leave me just Vander/Drew/Enchant. And nobody thinks Drew and Enchant are scum together because of the Arko/Oclax fight to start the game.

Well "from posting style" is a poor method of clearing slots in a team game where people have incentive to be strongly town as scum.

I'd also point out it IS worth reconsidering clearing the team from a fight involved between two slots no longer in the game. The Arko/Oclaxian fight looked unpaired at the time; it is worth reconsidering

every

assumption later on. In particular, the slots' more recent interactions.

Do I have a coherent solve myself, no. I'm regrettably dealing with a fever of over 100 right now, so my capability to analyze teams has been limited severely. Still, the process of doubting simple conclusions is better.

I feel your doubt of Vander-Ranger being antibuddies while clearing Drew/Enchant of the same is quite suspect for instance. There's far far

far

more evidence against Vander-Ranger than there is against Drew-Enchant.

[Vanderscamp]

VOTE: Aureal

Can you give an example of a team of three that has interactions and associative reads that you think makes less sense than Ranger/Me/Arko?

[Vanderscamp]

And I would like specific reasons why you've eliminated that combination

[Vanderscamp]

Your Drew/Enchant combo for example: I'm pretty sure that I was the instigator and the biggest advocate of Arko/Ox not being together.

Why would you sheep my read on this if I would be the third scum in that world?

[Vanderscamp]

Ranger, I'm ready to put our differences aside and lim a scum together!


I do not believe that Aureal believes anything they're saying.

Their responses to me sound like justification rather than evaluation.

[Vanderscamp]

But we have like a day until deadline anyway, right?

This game feels a little too inactive for a good result

[Doctor Drew]

Ranger, I said I was prod dodging and never said it was a gambit, and I said why would scumMe make another post, that would be the gambit. I could have just lurked the entire day away and avoided another prod. There is no logical reason for making that post as scum.

ScumMe would have coasted some more and let nature take it's course to let you be elim'ed.

[Ranger]

Can you give an example of a team of three that has interactions and associative reads that you think makes less sense than Ranger/Me/Arko?

Personally, I'm biased, but I cannot. That combo is the least-sensible to me of all possibilities.

Ranger, I'm ready to put our differences aside and lim a scum together!
I do not believe that Aureal believes anything they're saying.
Their responses to me sound like justification rather than evaluation.

I'm inclined to agree, but I've hesitance based on being skeptical of your alignment.

I'll swap if need be, or if I do the analysis I've been wanting to do. (I need a break, am heating up. Reminder, I'm sick so I need rest. I can be back before the deadline but I do need to step away to not literally die.)

[Aureal]

The words are backed by actions, and are not just words. Objectively, no solve is

impossible

. Any team could happen.

Suggesting that team is disingenous, because the actions and words both back up it being quite unlikely.

Isn't making it seem unlikely that your partners are your partners kind of an important part of being scum? You're making an argument that it's unlikely that partners would spend half the game having protracted arguments and I just don't see what that's supposed to be so unlikely. There isn't a magic amount of arguing between people going on that erases their ability to be scum partners. I'm looking at the

way

the interaction goes when I say things like AV is not scum with you, because I think partners wouldn't have that specific interaction where it looked like you were trying to duck his question by answering something else, but all he did was clarify it and it was Vander who went on to try to use it against you. It's a genuine interaction, not something that would've been staged.

By the way, where does this come from?

From a post that got eaten by the thread being locked.

When I said "end of hell 1", I meant

end

of hell 1. I was making a post detailing my suspicion when the thread was locked. My immediate heaven1 posting was recreating the post I lost there, but I admit you've only my word it was typed during hell1.[/quote][/quote]

Your first post in the heaven phase doesn't say anything about re-thinking your Vander read. Or any post anywhere else that I could find until you mentioned it just now.

[Doctor Drew]

VOTE: Aureal

[Ranger]

Your first post in the heaven phase doesn't say anything about re-thinking your Vander read. Or any post anywhere else that I could find until you mentioned it just now.

In 449 and 490 I was beginning to have doubts on Vander town. In 491 I specify "if there were scum on the wagon", which means 2-3

off

the D1 wagon. (Which includes Vander.) You think I didn't know Vander was off the wagon when I said 2-3 scum off the wagon? Because I did. By stating 0-1 scum on the wagon, I was stating 2-3 off, which is a pool including Vander.

505, Vander in a group of four containing 2-3 scum.
540, reassessing reads further.
553, "if Vander town", not "Vander town". I lay out the possible scumteams.
628 reinforced.

The doubt was there.

I admit sickness and exhaustion has kept me from delving into the read as much as I'd like to have.

Simply put, I know for a fact I had the doubt because I am the one who was thinking in the first place. I may have failed to express it properly; I still had it.

[Aureal]

Ranger, if I'm to believe you're town, what sort of scumteam am I supposed to believe is reasonable? Bella and AV feel town from their posting style, so that would leave me just Vander/Drew/Enchant. And nobody thinks Drew and Enchant are scum together because of the Arko/Oclax fight to start the game.

Well "from posting style" is a poor method of clearing slots in a team game where people have incentive to be strongly town as scum.

Maybe I'm not making myself entirely clear here, but I think you ought to know what I'm saying with that. You're the one who strongly townread Arko because you don't think scum would think to say stuff he said in 26. That's what I did with Aisa, I was wondering about her a little and then she made one post that just resonated so much I had to call her town. And I was right. So yeah, I think that's a perfectly valid way of trying to figure alignment.

I'd also point out it IS worth reconsidering clearing the team from a fight involved between two slots no longer in the game. The Arko/Oclaxian fight looked unpaired at the time; it is worth reconsidering

every

assumption later on. In particular, the slots' more recent interactions.

Alignment doesn't change with the player.

I feel your doubt of Vander-Ranger being antibuddies while clearing Drew/Enchant of the same is quite suspect for instance. There's far far

far

more evidence against Vander-Ranger than there is against Drew-Enchant.

Show me, then. What interactions between you do you think couldn't be faked? I haven't gone through a fine-tooth comb reading everything in the game with that lens. It's just something that occured to me, I posted about it, and the reactions to it aren't doing anything to send me in any direction other than continuing to consider it. After I posted about going through Vander's ISO, it didn't take long for me to realize that it was maybe a little

too

solid. Townreading basically everyone seems like a good way to keep on the good side of enough people to win a heaven vote. At first I considered AV a likely third since Vander had basically ignored him, but after I started going through AV's ISO I found that 239 interaction and ruled it out.

[Aureal]

VOTE: Aureal

Can you give an example of a team of three that has interactions and associative reads that you think makes less sense than Ranger/Me/Arko?

I already have, if you were paying attention. I considered Ranger/Vander/AV before this, and discarded it while going through AV's ISO because I don't think Ranger and AV can be scum together.

I think you and Drew are pretty much just open-wolfing at this point with these votes. Why are you abandoning your big scumread that you spent half your iso on for a last-minute spiritual omgus? We still could've voted Ranger out here if you weren't pulling shenanigans.

[Aureal]

Maybe it's confirmation bias but it's really hard to see these actions as something other than trying to get Drew limmed instead of Ranger because I spotted more opportunities to clear people based off of Ranger's flip. I've had the opportunity to hammer Drew for a while now but would have preferred Ranger for that reason. But with deadline 9 hours away, no word from Bella yet, and AV still vla I guess it's on me to do so soon here, before I go to bed. I'm the most confident that he's scum here anyway.

[Bellaphant]

I'm here, reading

[Bellaphant]

655 feels unnecessarily heated, weird tonal shift into 656
This team stuff feels really hard for me because I too don't gave a workable team, just a vague collection of scum reads. I think this means both theatre and distancing, or ay least one lurkscuk, but that's a shit #hottake also, high high probability of bussing
Dr Drew's pushback on ranger is weird

Last page

[Bellaphant]

675 from enchant is bad, 677 veers all over.
Wtf are these aureal votes? I'm not doing that. I don't think my read on this slot us just tone/ reasonable=town
I could do Dr drew or enchant, Vanders/ranger at a push.

Any Q's, am around

[Bellaphant]

@mod, a VC?

[Aureal]

Should be Vander and Drew voting me, with AV, Enchant, and Ranger on Drew. Hence my wanting to resolve this before going to bed, since Ranger deciding to shift to me like she said she'd consider would end up with me getting deadline eliminated by plurality. And while it probably wouldn't be too hard for Aisa to get a scum in that case, it's still better to not end up in that situation.

[Aureal]

VOTE: Doctor Drew

[Bellaphant]

Is that the hammer or do you need me?

[Bellaphant]

VOTE: Dr drew just in case

[furtiveglance]

3.03

Votecount 3.03 (Final)

Doctor Drew (4):

AurorusVox, Enchant, Ranger, Aureal. [HAMMER]

Aureal (2):

Vanderscamp, Doctor Drew.

Not Voting (1):

Bellaphant.

With 7 players alive, it took 4 votes to condemn someone to the fiery pits of

hell

.

Hell phase 2 is over.

Doctor Drew has been judged. He was a

Spoiler:

Saint

Spoiler: Role PM

Welcome, Doctor Drew!

You are a

Saint

, and win if 2

Sinners

are sent to hell.

Confirm by replying with your role in a PM to me.

Spoiler: This means

Doctor Drew joins the Judged PT and can no longer post in the game thread. With the numbers of unjudged (alive) Saints and Sinners equal, the game moves to a Judgement Day. Aisa, the Martyr, has 5 days to choose a player to judge. If that player is a Saint, Sinners immediately win. If that player is a Sinner, the game moves to a hell phase. During this Judgement Day, this gamethread will remain locked.