large normal 243: lindOVER

[KittyTacky]

I don't like Kowah's push on Greeting.

Well you should. They literally slipped and called me town which is impossible for any town player to know on D1. Its not, however, impossible for scum to know on D1.

????

Do you not know that "X is town" is basically just a way to say "I have a strong TR on X"?

Yeah it wasn't said like that at all. Post 48 - "Both town and mafia can make contentless posts for no reason or for whatever reason really.

It is a common mistake for town

to assume that every post has intention."

That was in response to my 44. "I feel like everything is alignment indicative. Every post is made with intentions. Its not up to the poster to express this, but up to the player-base to interpret."

They did not just simply say "Kowah is town" they responded and said what I said "is a common mistake for town" that's not a town read. That's not a guess. That was an attempt to discredit my opinion on the game followed by a them blatantly mentioning what my alignment is. This does not come from a town POV.

Also, why don't you actually read the game before you come in here and discredit what I've been doing? What gives you the confidence to come in here, tell me you don't like my push on Greeting, and then openly prove you haven't even looked at it?

I did read it.

I thought it implied a townread. Nice misrep of me mate.

Really? You thought Greetings said "Kowah is town" and my immediate reaction to it was the reaction I had? Greeting didn't even type my name in the post. You come in and act like I missed something by saying "Do you not know that "X is town"..." which isn't even CLOSE to what Greeting said.

I didn't think Greeting said that.

I thought "X is a town mistake" when talking about player Y or similar things imply that they think Y is town.

[KittyTacky]

Still think it's CKD. The case makes sense and they're doing a poor job defending themself.

[Glitch]

Spoiler: quote

Feeling stronger and stronger about my curiouskarma read that they're scum. Really feels like flailing and a half baked and reactive scum read on Andate -- someone on the CKD wagon. CKD's posts really don't read like honest faith scumhunting but reactive and made up reasons to try and get wagons going on people. This is why I feel like Andate's town conditational on CKD being scum. I really feel like CKD has been pushing a bs mislim on Andate -- it doesn't read like bussing behavior at all because Andate was under no serious pressure earlier.

VOTE: curiouskarmadog

bub noting that karma's explanation for voting kawaii was effectively bullshit is the most villager-y thing he's done all game, and karma's chances of being wolf were raised by a solid 17% because of that

seem legit, cant argue math.

VOTE: curiouskarmadog

I don't have many

reads

, but this is just "I'm pushing a low poster cause I can" and it's "here's a push, but I can't push too much just cause there's nothing for the slot, but if I shade her enough, I can get votes there"

sorry, only enough room for 1 dog in this town.

is that what I said? Where did I remotely indicate I thought you were a low poster? Also compared to who? Are you a low poster? Did I indicate I thought you were a low poster OR did I note that you only tried to make friends and told a joke to get people to like you. Did I even vote you in that post? Also, interesting phrasing there. "reads". Who uses reads? Scum just vote and make up a reasons. They dont use "reads" because they know who scum is.

this reeks of someone trying to come up with a reason to join a wagon, but just makes stuff up. Also slight slip.

VOTE: Vote Andante

also still waiting on Bub to answer my question.

after that, will give a full scum list.

What question?

This seems confident for scum. Bub can be town for now.

Spoiler: quote

Hello all, sorry for being so inactive. I came down with a fever Friday night and felt like death all day yesterday. Much better today. Taking some time to dive deeper through the thread from the beginning. As I go I'll make a few posts so I don't end up with one big wall of text.

Page 1
Post 21 breaks right out of the gate with horrible logic. Bub light SR’s Kawaii or Hu Tao saying their “hello” posts were scummy for not contributing anything and being non-commital. Bub admits that it’s weak and it is. However he makes a somewhat more palatable point that based on intros alone, Kawaii and Hu Tao are not scum together because 18+19 as both scum would be unlikely. However IMO this is underestimating the power of scum theatre.

Page 2
Post 30 I appreciate ballpoint calling out the bad reasoning in 21.

33 strikes me as quite off. Curiouskarmadog quotes the terrible post 21, agrees with it, and then just jumps on to the other person that was framed as scummy for saying hello. Curious says that they dislike players getting credit for a vote without having to do anything. But Curious just jumps on to the reasoning in 21, which was bad reasoning to begin with, uses it to cast a vote without having to do anything, then turns and says they’re suspicious of Bub for FOSing. ???

In 38, when confronted on the weakness of the reasoning in 21, Bub immediately recants saying "yeah I know it's weak logic but I said it was in the original post." But I appreciate in 39 the dig to generate conversation.

In 41 Cephrir says "everything so far is NAI" and then STD FOS's Cephrir. Why?

46: I think ballpoint reasons in a way that I relate with a lot. I appreciate the way they think and examine things.

let me play the devil's advocate to your accusation: what you pointed out isn't unique to those two users, since savethedragons (i'll abbreivate to STD if that's ok) also just said "hi" without casting a vote, so wouldn't the same kind of logic apply to them?

and while people do vote for reasons during rvs its redundant because these are completely unaligned reasons that would be the same regardless of rand, so the votes are equally as non-commital and passive as the entrances, and the argument falls apart pretty quickly because of that

Sure, it's just the the timing that seemed a little...eh to me. Sort of "hey, let's show my face so everyone knows I'm cool but not actually try to move towards finding scum>" I'll admit it's weak and I'm not married to this tell, but my general read of scum behavior is that they're like politicans who'll pop in to show themselves but don't actually want to be attached to a wagon.

I'm much more confident in my read that it's very unlikely both Hsu and Kawaii are both scum just because of their interaction. It just seems like scum wouldn't banter with each other about such fluff just right out of the gate.

I'm with

STD

and

Cephrir

on this one.

And, as a matter of fact, one game when I was mafia, I tried pushing a similar point to move up the pace and fake a contribution.

This is weird. What has STD said that makes you "with them?" STD has contributed practically nothing. What are you talking about?

---

Be back with more in a bit.

i can't tell if this user is awkward or scum but woof

Lol why am I awkward??

Spoiler: quote

What question?

speaking of honest scum hunting. you went through my posts (I assumed you did, because you are scum hunting right?) and didnt see a question directed at you?

How do you know I am "flailing" if you didnt ready all my post. Im confused. (hint post 136)

So doing this unncessary nonsense is just so scummy. You asked so many random questions to so many random people. Many of them rhetorical, none of them important or insightful. If you actually cared about the answer you would reproduce it. But you dont't really care about the answer because you're just flailing trying to make it seem like you're doing good faith scumhunting when you are asking banal and shallow questions.

But I did find the question(s) I think you're referring to, they're in this post:

Bub,

Do you think avoiding a direct question is scummy or a townie action?

Did you thoroughly read (try to find scum) when you said the below?

I'm getting a mild townie read from Hsu but I'm not 100%. They didn't panic or immediately deflect when under some mild pressure, but did use it as opportunity to ask questions. For example, I read their post #59 questioning curiouskarmadog's vote for Kawaii over Hsu as a good faith attempt to scumhunt and not a panic deflection. Still early and I'm not married to this read, but for now in the town pile.

So instead of him looking scummy to you, you vote me?

In your “you are not scum hunting post”

You completely leave off my question to Hu Tao, why?

IN post 96 (that you did post), I am highlighting to common scum tactics there. Waiting for Andante to address.

also

unvote

And you can kind of see my point here. There's a bunch of questions here, none of them important or insightful, and it's not clear that all of the are addressed to me. But let's go through:

Do you think avoiding a direct question is scummy or a townie action?

I think it depends on the context. If it's a question about your reads, for example, it would be scummy to dodge because you're trying to obfuscate the fact that your "reads" are all bs. But if it's just tangential questions meant to distract from scumhunting, it's not necessarily scummy to ignore the question.

Did you thoroughly read (try to find scum) when you said the below?

I'm getting a mild townie read from Hsu but I'm not 100%. They didn't panic or immediately deflect when under some mild pressure, but did use it as opportunity to ask questions. For example, I read their post #59 questioning curiouskarmadog's vote for Kawaii over Hsu as a good faith attempt to scumhunt and not a panic deflection. Still early and I'm not married to this read, but for now in the town pile.

Yes, I did do a read of Hsu's reaction. That's part of the reason why I started the wagon to begin with -- put Hsu in the kitchen and see if they could stand the heat. But even more importantly, try to get reads based on how various other people reacted to the wagon. My read is pure vibes, but the quick posting, kind of stream-of-consciousness questions seem geniune. Sure, it could come from scum, but based on their reaction to the (albiet superifical) pressure I'd say they're more likely town that I'd expect by random chance.

In your “you are not scum hunting post”

You completely leave off my question to Hu Tao, why?

This is just sealioning. Again an example of what I've been talking about -- a complete refusal to do actual work but asking questions expecting others to do work. This seems like a scummy move because you get credit for seeming like you're scum hunting but others are actually doing the work.

If the question you are referring to is this:

Also btw FoSing is out of style these days

I dont think it was ever in style.

It begins

Hello everyone

So right off the bat I'm somewhat suspicious of both Kawaii and Hu Tao here. This is admitedly somewhat weak because the game just started, but both of these posts are really fluffy, non-commital and not progressing the game. Now, is this progressing the game more than a random vote? I dunno, but the reason why "random" votes are a thing is to create an initial paper trail of some sort...they aren't really random, so it immediately puts the scum in a bit of a pick of whether or not to bus. So far, these posts are just the most flimsy, "hey I'm here but not actually advancing the game" kind of posts.

I'm, going to go ahead and VOTE: Hu Tao


Mainly because it was another post right after a fluff post by Kawaii. Kind of reads as scum thinking "okay, need to say something now to not look suspicious" while being non-comittal.

Also going to put a

finger of suspicion on Kawaii

for similar sorts of reasons, but I think it's very unlikely that both Kawaii and Hu are scum. No way a scum comes in right after their buddy to make an almost identical post.

Im sold.

However, Im going to

vote Kawaii

I hate finger of suspicions...its like getting credit for a vote without having to do anything. If Kawaii flips scum, this looks sketchy.

consider this my

finger of suspicion (any hypocrisy) on Bub

Why vote him over me if you're "sold"?

LOL.....

what exactly do you think his point was there? break it down what YOU think the point is please.

Then yeah I did notice your question to Hsu as it was it was one of the reasons I think you are scum. Just asking "please explain what you think his point is" isn't actually accomplishing anything. It's just asking a totally toothless question that doesn't actually help to find scum.

I feel very good about my vote for CKD. I've made my case, but at this point I think a read of their iso kind of speaks for itself.

Still more confident casing that seems really dominant when scum would try to coast more early game. Bub can stay town for a bit.

--

I was confused on how to read Kowah but then 264-270 is a bunch of decent digging even though I don't agree with their points or logic.

Spoiler: quote

All I know is you did this whole *cracks knuckles* alright get ready for a fight routine and then nothing

well obviously the intention wasn't to disappear

Cephrir is consistent at least in SR'ing players for promising content but not following up on it. Maybe he just needs a little more patience but that's okay. I'm so null on Cephrir; I can't make left or right of him.

[GuyInFreezer]

mind talking about your greeting read

I wish I had more to talk about Greeting read, but it's literally just gut read. I'm just not feeling scum vibe there.

[Glitch]

Kowah and Cephrir on page 300 = sort of unlikely be scum together

Spoiler: quote

-1: Andante, KawaiiKame

how on earth do you have me and my sr as the exact same?

Can you elaborate on why this is not okay in your opinion?

[Bub Bidderskins]

Glitch did deliver some content and legitimate opinions after prodding. Could be scum reacting to a stimulus, but this also makes it more plausible that he's town and were just busy over the last few days. Not comfortable quite putting him in the town bucket, but the main reason I had a scumread on him was that he promised content without delivering. At least at some level he has delievered content. That's enough for me to think he's town...at least at the moment when I feel like there's some far more likely scum about.

Really feel like the whole Andate and Greeting wagons are a huge distraction when CKD's out here. Also really don't like how ballpoint slid off the wagon to hop on the obvious competitor's wagon as soon as the CKD wagon started getting serious. Makes me think a SKD/ballpoint scumteam is pretty plausible.

[Bub Bidderskins]

yes. catch one scum, then figure out who their partners are after you have information. you'll run yourself in circles trying to preflip and solve on info that could be wrong

it's how i play anyway. sure, if someone has zero plausible partners, that's an issue, but otherwise, don't twist yourself in knots not eliminating someone scummy because your other scumreads are bussing them

I agree, at least at this stage. Even the strongest scum reads 1 day and 15 pages in are going to be unreliable. Ballpoint's posting has been a weird mix of over-confident and slippery the whole day.

[Flavor Leaf]

Idk if that’s good enough.
All she’ve been doing is cherry-picking posts for discredit (See: her stated reason of FL voting her vs FL’s actual reason) and got flipped out when I put both her and Kawaii in same pool. And she flipped even harder when I mentioned possibility of bussing and try to strawman my reason of scumreading Kawaii is because I think they’re distancing (Despite my reads being formed before her read on Kawaii).

I don’t think that was town reaction.

I’m glad you brought this up, because I noticed it, and personally, I feel my reasoning was pretty solid. At least as solid as it could be for this point in the game.

I’m not 100% sold Andante is scum by any means, and I’m waffling a bit on if I think them misrepping my reasoning on them is scummy or town panic.

I don’t think it’s intentional either alignment, though, but there’s still a line to discern it from.

I’m really not feeling the curious push, but that easily could just be because it’s the big push right now, and a lack of strong town reads on my end

[Flavor Leaf]

Glitch is passing my vibe check for some reason.

[Flavor Leaf]

Piggybacking on GIF not knowing if it was good enough, I kind of agree. That’s right in the wheelhouse of where I think ScumAndante would be able to do to get pressure off of them. It was like just enough to split some people away for “effort and emotion”, the double E defense, ya feel

[Save The Dragons]

@fen penny for your thoughts on andante

town

[Save The Dragons]

will check out ckd a little more in depth when i can

VOTE: glitch tho

[Save The Dragons]

I am having... A Thought Process

@ckd- why did you call for a wagon on yourself as opposed to someone else?

I have one of those posting/playing styles that gets a lot of action (wagons/votes) no matter my alignment. Dont know why...

AT ANY RATE, felt like my wagon would be the easiest to get started. Would I prefer a different one? yep....but look at the info mine as already reaped.

What info has yours reaped

[Skygazer]

kitty why are you more active here than in the game we just finished together where you were town?

[curiouskarmadog]

Catching up on 5 pages,

for Bub
dont want to repost the huge wall that was 242.
however my question was simply this.

in my post 136, I ask why you decided to leave off my question to Hu Tao when you made your "CKD is scummy because he is not scum hunting case". you post all my other posts, but deliberately left that post out. I wanted to know why?

and you still actually havent answered that question. Why did you chose to leave that post out when you posted ALL of my other post to "prove" your point. Clearly you cherry picked post and that post did not fit into your narrative.

your BS narrative.

Ive done MORE scum hunting here than half of the people here. Yet you want to state I "refuse to do actual work"....more BS.

more on.

ckd sounds really edgy but it turns out to just be the capitalization
funny tactic to HIGHLIGHT certain words more than others

its my STYLE baby, its mine style.

side note: in one game, I did it to bury a claim, then liked it so much I did it as scum to bury a fake claim.

I am not doing EITHER here.

There's definitely at least one scum in: {

KittyTacky

,

NJAC

,

Glitch

}. I'll see in the postgame if my instincts were right.

curious....thoughts on Bub and Andante....and if you are feeling saucy Hu Tao.


still reading, but want to avoid huge walls.

[curiouskarmadog]

like, one of my first actual posts back, dog was picking me to SR solely cause I wasn't around to defend myself, yet I don't think any of yall realized that? so I show up, call it out, you vote me? feels like a really weak reason to sr me

I did what now?

like, I'm literally the 2nd most popular SR. WHAT HAVE I EVEN DONE THIS GAME TO BE A TOP SR FOR?

I got one answer

like, I haven't done... anything?

but moving on.

like, I haven't done... anything? great work yall! I think we lim the slot with nothing, we watch them flip town, then just shrug it off tomorrow. sounds like a real solid plan.

versus my sr on karma dog (which I saw someone say was so fake) where karma was very clearly going after me with the thought I was an easy lim, aren't scum only looking for the easy lims here? giant 17p game, "heyyy let's just pick off town, 1 by 1" like, THERE'S NOTHING GENUINELY SCUMMY ABOUT MY POSTS. I can see the "oh frozen scum" argument, but like, that's literally not even the argument against me

who said your SR was fake? did you question them about it? who do THEY think is scummy? I was going after you because I thought you were easy? WHERE? If you really believe that, what post{s} led you to believe that.

I know you "feel" like I am scum, do you have other reads? and what was your case against me again? I have never once mentioned I thought you were low poster, but that is the main point of your case. I mean you just said it again...you were "easy". What post made you come up with this case to vote me? WHERE

[Cephrir]

@fen penny for your thoughts on andante

town

Ok

I thought this would settle me but I feel like this could be her replicating it so maybe I was just hoping you would agree with my uncertainty

But I'll leave it alone for now

[curiouskarmadog]

The confusing thing to me now is that I scum read Curious for their ISO. But two of my three other scum reads are on him. Which makes me feel less confident in him being scum now.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Greeting

I'm going back here.

why am(was) I scum read? who are your other reads? Why wouldnt they be bussing me? As of this change of vote my wagon was Hu Tao, Bub Bidderskins, KittyTacky, Andante, Kowahbunga

but you vote greeting? So if you are not voting the other two scum reads, why are you voting greeting. none of this makes any sense.

man..

man I had you in my town pile before this post

[curiouskarmadog]

Still think it's CKD. The case makes sense and they're doing a poor job defending themself.

whats that case again?

[curiouskarmadog]

sooo, here is the situation...I am leaving tomorrow and will be gone until Sunday night.

Day 1 ends on Sunday.

I might be able to check in tonight...maybe.

I would hate it if I was hammered and didnt get a chance to claim.

so here it goes, I am not vanilla town. OOOOOHHHH NOOOO!!!

that being said, my role (if you want to call it that) isnt very helpful, some might even say it would be a distraction. So...if the wagon does swell on me while I am away, it wont hurt you guys much.

now you will be losing my excellent scum hunting ability, but you wont be killing power.

[Glitch]

/fascinating/
Soft town pr claim on D1 is either a ballsy scum move or a legitimate claim. I'll let curious live today.

[Glitch]

Spoiler: curious wagon

Spoiler:

camae ayewa (moor mother)

vote count 1.5 !

curiouskarmadog (4):

Hu Tao, Bub Bidderskins, KittyTacky, Andante

Andante (4):

curiouskarmadog, GuyInFreezer, Flavor Leaf, Cephrir

Greeting (3):

NJAC, ballpointpen, Kowahbunga

Glitch (1):

Greeting

Hu Tao (1):

Save The Dragons

Flavor Leaf (1):

KawaiiKame

Cephrir (1):

Skygazer

not voting (2):

MalcolmTucker, Glitch

with 17 alive, it takes 9 to put someone in the machine. day 1 ends in (expired on 2023-04-02 13:48:07)

moderateur notes

• no prods administered! in fact everyone has posted in the last uh 25 hours

like, I'm not placing a vote on FL, ignoring that, and going "yeah karma dog scummy!!!" while not voting karma dog...
yet you have us the same??

I was saying if you right about Karma easy eliminating you Karma has a scum mindset, how is Karma voting you an easy elimination?

someone not posting? I hadn't done anything, how was I not an easy lim when karma started voting me?
I don't get what you are asking

In IS0 the push against you makes 0 sense, like you said nothing that would indicate you as scum, confused when reading, like what?
UNVOTE:
VOTE: curiouskarmadog

So now we're actually getting a little action and traction. Hu Tao, Bub, Kitty, Andante, and Kawaii are on the curious wagon. I don't think a PR claim on D1 means that scum is guaranteed to be on the wagon. But I do think it gives sufficient reason for a bit of pressure there. Bub is in my town bucket which leaves me interested in ISO'ing Hu Tao, Kitty, Andante, and Kawaii. I'm gonna do that now.

[GuyInFreezer]

/fascinating/
Soft town pr claim on D1 is either a ballsy scum move or a legitimate claim. I'll let curious live today.

I townread ckd but this isn’t the reason to townread ckd

[MalcolmTucker]

yeah got busy irl, and ehh I don't see much I care to interact with, FL is all focused on wanting me to scumcase myself, it was half a joke, like, me doing nothing, I get yelled at for being scum cause of it half the time, like, idk, FL being VERY focused on that seems weird

Catching up.

Townread Andante early on but don't particularly like this post. If you say you can provide a better scumread for yourself than somebody else who's scumreading you can then I don't think it's awful to ask you to prove that. It may have been a half-joke but you were using it as legit evidence for why the case on you was weak - I took it as relatively genuine and townread you for it.

[MalcolmTucker]

The confusing thing to me now is that I scum read Curious for their ISO. But two of my three other scum reads are on him. Which makes me feel less confident in him being scum now.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Greeting

I'm going back here.

If this vote on Greeting is still for something I reckon was a misunderstanding/misinterpretation then it's a bad vote for me, but I think the persistence is coming from tunnelled town as opposed to scum right now.