Mini 2295 | Star Trek uPick - Fin!

[PenguinPower]

can you elaborate?

[PenguinPower]

honestly not sure what question you have for me here! one of the only comments you've actually made about me so far is that I have fewer posts than you. which, sure, that's true. but the vast majority of your posts have been basically contentless.

you also said that I could've asked why you voted for Wavelength. and that's true! I could've asked you that. I didn't, though, because I already felt very strongly that I knew the answer to that question, which I think I made pretty clear in my vote for you. if you think I was wrong about that, you're perfectly welcome to explain why I was wrong.

Sure sure -

338 onwards -- PenguinPower is town. scum does not take eight posts across 5 minutes to wiggle on around to voting on someone (even if it's me)

What changed from this read for you to drop me to scum worth voting?

[Wavelength]

He opened up the day in a way that left LLD with a "xyzzy is never scum with Hebi." I agreed with these posts, and I think Rogue(?) did too (not sure on that, and not taking the time to check)

In your mind is he scum profiterring off of hebi being town and a wagon or is he scum attaching himself to a wagon as part of a bus to ensure he's not left out?

I’ll ask a better question - is he town?

If Hebi's scum they are.

like to iterate, if Hebi's scum Xyzzy doesn't have the 3 posts they have this game. Simple as that. They enter and approach differently.

And I don't think that a scum partner who successfully managed to position themselves into a "very likely not partnered with my partner who is currently at e-1 and has claimed not town" read for multiple players proceeds to tear down that positioning by making this argument, instead of just hoping to ride out the town cred on their partner flip (while quietly hoping that the town on the wagon work their own way off)

So a non-town claim.

Vote: Hebi

I will not go into a long explanation of why this is always, always, always, always the correct move. A brief summary:

- The moderator has not confirmed the existence of a non-hostile, non-town faction. There's no evidence it exists. There's a known non-town faction - it's Mafia. Occam's Razor.
- Fferyllt likes fairly vanilla roles. For instance their design document for Tarot Mafia, despite having an incredibly complicated picking procedure, has mostly "modified vanilla" roles: viewtopic.php?p=12857475#p12857475
- It's a mini normal, 13 players doesn't give much room for a non-town, non-hostile faction.
-

It's day 1, we're guaranteed not to eliminate town by doing this

The last one should be the only one that matters.

eliminating hebichan here as policy doesn't give us useful info for day 2. if we later have reason to believe hebichan is lying scum, we can circle back around to that. if we eliminate town on day 1, that's obviously bad, but it gives us a wealth of information that eliminating a claimed survivor does not. the drawback of going into day 2 with less to work with is far greater than the "at least we didn't lose a town player" moral victory, especially because it doesn't stop us from getting closer to a scum win.

I think I would have to actively decided that xyzzy does not understand how to play scum to conclude that he makes this post, in this position, as scum.

[Wavelength]

Like 581 did not work to stop Hebi's elim, it was never going to work to stop Hebi's elim, and actually all it did was give a reason for people to point and say "Look over there! xyzzy tried to save scum Hebi"

And I feel like xyzzy partnered with Hebi realizes this.

So that leads me to conclude this was his actual process of trying to work through a survivor claim.

[Porkens]

Yes I thought hebi was scum.

[Wavelength]

Yes I thought hebi was scum.

Thanks for letting me know?

[Porkens]

Yep

[xyzzy]

honestly not sure what question you have for me here! one of the only comments you've actually made about me so far is that I have fewer posts than you. which, sure, that's true. but the vast majority of your posts have been basically contentless.

you also said that I could've asked why you voted for Wavelength. and that's true! I could've asked you that. I didn't, though, because I already felt very strongly that I knew the answer to that question, which I think I made pretty clear in my vote for you. if you think I was wrong about that, you're perfectly welcome to explain why I was wrong.

Sure sure -

338 onwards -- PenguinPower is town. scum does not take eight posts across 5 minutes to wiggle on around to voting on someone (even if it's me)

What changed from this read for you to drop me to scum worth voting?

after your day 2 vote, I gave your ISO a read and felt you were avoiding committing to any specific takes.

can you tell me more about the day 1 strategy you mention in 828? I'll admit that you

have

become more engaged in the game since I voted you, and I'm curious what your perspective is on what you were doing during day 1.

also hey please remember y'all: I am a they/them pronoun haver. thanks!

[PenguinPower]

after your day 2 vote, I gave your ISO a read and felt you were avoiding committing to any specific takes.

mmhmm...you went from "this is town" to "this is scum" when the only posts I made in between were "i'm v/la" and "vote: wavelength"

So your first read was bs or is your second?

can you tell me more about the day 1 strategy you mention in 828?

I've already answered this in this game.

I'll admit that you have become more engaged in the game since I voted you

I've become more engaged in the game since I came back from v/la!?!?



actually tbf you scumming it up is somewhat responsible for my current level of engagement so i retract half the shocked pickachu face.

[Wavelength]

also hey please remember y'all: I am a they/them pronoun haver. thanks!

My bad, sorry for the mistake

[fferyllt]

GreyICE has been prodded.

[xyzzy]

mmhmm...you went from "this is town" to "this is scum" when the only posts I made in between were "i'm v/la" and "vote: wavelength"

So your first read was bs or is your second?

I changed my mind after your vote and after looking at your ISO. that assessment was a reaction to that specific string of posts, but when I looked at your activity as a whole along with that vote, I felt differently. changing my opinion on you once after rereading and you make a vote doesn't mean one of those opinions is unfounded.

I've already answered this in this game.

not really, no — you said that your strategy was interrupted by the claim, and you mentioned that you tend to follow wagons on day 1, but that's not a complete picture.

I've become more engaged in the game since I came back from v/la!?!?

this comparison is between everything you did up until your Wavelength vote and everything you've done afterwards.

anyway your whole post was in bad faith and I don't believe you think I mean any of the things you're saying I mean

[PenguinPower]

fuck off - I believe everything I said and for you to say otherwise is shitty.

[PenguinPower]

and yes - I've already said what I do d1 wrt wagons which anyone who has played with me before can support so stuff it

[PenguinPower]

nice selective quoting though

[PenguinPower]

sorry, xyzzy - I'm stepping away for a bit. I let some things irl leak in.

[Aureal]

Wave: why do you have LLD topping your list as Town?

Peng: I guess I'll be the one to ask then, why DID you vote Wave?

[Wavelength]

Wave: why do you have LLD topping your list as Town?

-
-

[Wavelength]

I am thinking of this game in terms of [Not Black Ops = Town] and [Black Ops = Scum]

If Hebi had never claimed third party, no one would be having third party / multiball talk. But she did, but then she flipped scum.

Once we have some actual evidence that we need to be hunting down some other malevolent actors other then the Black Ops, I can readjust how I am sorting, but realistically, everyone should be hunting for hebi partners at the point.

[Porkens]

That all went completely without saying.

[Aureal]

Yes, I don't disagree that catching out hebi was towny. But towny enough to just get classified as town straight up? Even she said that she should be expected to continue catching scum, and right now she's not pushing anything.

How do you feel about Grey's shifting position on LLD? He went from thinking she'd be town if hebi was scum, to worrying that it was a soft bus, to apparently figuring she was towny enough to claim upon demand to (still waiting for an answer to my question about that), to deciding that she's scum for asking for the claim.

... I'm trying to remember why I kinda ended up town leaning him when I last pondered this because reviewing his ISO just makes me hate it all again.

[Wavelength]

That all went completely without saying.

I am not sure that it necessarily was to the person who I was talking to, given earlier statements such as

Not a fan of LLD's going from "found an unknown faction" to 'faction is definitely scum' when hebi's flip did nothing to change the information we had gotten from her.

And then also asking me why I was town reading LLD this game

[Wavelength]

Yes, I don't disagree that catching out hebi was towny. But towny enough to just get classified as town straight up?

I think that the reasons to think that LLD is not a member of the Black Ops, so far are greater then the reasons to think anyone else is town in this game. So yeah, she gets to live in her own little tier above the rest.

How do you feel about Grey's shifting position on LLD?

I didn't like it.

[Wavelength]

to apparently figuring she was towny enough to claim upon demand to (still waiting for an answer to my question about that)

I thought about answering this when you first asked, but figured I would let GreyIce. But then he never did lol.

GreyICE full claim next post please and ty, including any night actions taken.

This post, how it was written plus it being LLD's first post start of day always means "I gained information over the night phase (likely an invest) that demands a claim, after which I will out my information and we can all decide if it means you are scum or not"

GreyIce, regardless of alignment, clearly read it the same way that I did, and responded to it as such.

[Porkens]

I’m not feeling wave scum at all.

On the other hand, we should wagon Aureal.