Mini Normal 2294: Monkey Business (Endgame)

[Gimli]

if you're mafia then you probably had other mechanical elements to think kokichi was an actual vig, or that otherwise there are vigs in game, like being BP or whatever.

the shield is weird but can also benefit town when there's a single scum left. same with the hider who can never be immediately targeted without mafia having blockers.

I theorize that mafia does have blockers either way to circumvent this. it doesn't make much sense, however, for town to have a straight up vigilante. the only evidence for a vigilante we have rn is because we trusted enchant's claim.

[Enchant]

Actually it could be possible that no-vig exist. There's plenty of roles which can kick back at evens.

[Enchant]

klick. okay.

I think there's no town vig and you're mafia rn.

And i bother to save Kokichi because?

[Gimli]

when you asked everyone to stop voting kokichi and claimed doctor + shield

if you're town you knew the claim had to be real cause of your real role. and kokichi died because scum being scum knows kokichi is a safe shot cause you can't heal him. so kokichi died and flipped VT because you believed him.

if you're scum you still have to believe him, so how does that work? you have to had roleblocked kokichi n1, and got baited by koki's 'what do you think happened to my n1' line etc. then you claimed doctor while circumventing not being able to kill him with the shield, then you killed him.

if there's no vig then we go back to what your claim was and what it implied and it only makes sense in a game with a townvig, so the *if you're scum* scenario skyrockets

[Gimli]

klick. okay.

I think there's no town vig and you're mafia rn.

And i bother to save Kokichi because?

idk but if you're scum you're definitely playing like trying to appear reasonable and gaining towncred and doing towny things. this isn't your play in mutiny surely.

[Gimli]

if a doctor shield visits, what would the visionary show to the person visited?

[Enchant]

So mafia me is unreasonable and trying to openwolf.

Aha i see.

[Comus]

Enchant would know both Elsa and Kokichi town or wolf. Enchant just shutting up and sticking with VT claim would be optimal, either elsa or kokichi dies, scum kills kokichi anyway.

Meanwhile gimli kept saying can vote elsa or kokichi, parks on elsa, now goes after sky(elsa voter) and enchant(kokichi saver).

Enchant fakeclaiming doc shield sets up ccs as scum, suboptimal. Enchant being scum doc shield makes little sense if theres no vig.

Gimli looking scummy for this push ngl.

Only value in enchant scum behavior is to become conf town and avoid poss. Vig kill.

Only question I have is why enchant heals klick, pr claims were klick, elsa, mg. Elsa and mg fake tho, maybe enchant sussed that and healed klick cos likely not killing role, compulsive visitor.

[Comus]

*as wolf

[Klick]

i did read mena's iso over night and i am not really townreading him right now

i don't have a massive issue with the dictator plan if we can actually find someone everyone townreads that much

I did this too and felt similarly which concerned me.

[Gimli]

my point is I don't think there's a vig but something very weird happened

IDK if I should be townreading enchant and it's more or less solely on tunneling elsa and then appearing townie with a claim that idk does it work? without a vig, does this claim work? that's what I'm asking. you can scumread me but also answer if enchant's role is making sense.

[Comus]

Meanlque/Gimli crossed my mind but have no solid evidence rn. Way gimli spoke of Kokichi as vig kill and way Gimli made slight assumption enchant saved menalque from scum kill pinged me, read as gimli setting up menalque as conftown for if theres vig, working on asumption enchant claim is real.

[Klick]

we likely don't have a town vig, that's two nights with no extra kills. if we do have a town vig then mafia got blocked or enchant made a save etc etc. mafia would already know about it, while all townies except for the vig are in the dark

The thing is you want info like this to NOT be public knowledge before scum have to make their own assessment of it with a claim

I agree with you!

[Gimli]

klick I'm sorry for not playing optimally but like dajd3089jdadj I wanna say things jfc

[Comus]

my point is I don't think there's a vig but something very weird happened

IDK if I should be townreading enchant and it's more or less solely on tunneling elsa and then appearing townie with a claim that idk does it work? without a vig, does this claim work? that's what I'm asking. you can scumread me but also answer if enchant's role is making sense.

I'm not voting a claimed doctor on your say so. I'm on board with massclaim if Menalque claims right the fuck now.

[Klick]

I'm fine with Menalque before Skygazer, the main reason I didn't list it that way previously was because that was unaligned with my D2 reads strongly enough that I thought it might alarm scum!Menalque

[Klick]

I really don't read Gimli as scum atm but I struggle to trust myself on that read for very obvious reasons.

[Gimli]

the only reason you should be townreading me rn imo is because I was literally using this as my townie little escape from lying in hollow knight

you can trust that dirty tell

I can totally be poking holes on enchant as mafia here can't I lol

[Comus]

IMPORTANT

I suck at mech spec, in general but not always. Scum have multitasking. I admit I'm a noob when ot comes to that. So question for ya'll with way more xp than me:

How does a scum compulsive visitor function with multitasking?
How does a scum shield doctor function in a team with multitasking?(I sorta understand this one but answer anyway I guess, maybe mean echant heals and maybe more likely to do kills as well I think?)

If theres no vig, and Enchant claim is true, doesn't this mean enchant is always town?

Klick and Enchant I have as town rn.

Menalque and Gimli can be scum, not an absolute in my mind but whatever.

[Klick]

@Gimli

What I'm reading as town is the fact that what you're currently arguing is something I can totally buy as where your genuine town perspective would be at this moment

Whereas in Hollow Knight there was a clear potential self-serving motivation to everything you posted from like D3 onwards (stuff like the 'my plan involves shooting me look how town I am!' plan)

I also don't feel like you're propping up anyone in particular with your posting

Which I think either means you're not scum, or you're scum with other competent scum players like Ausuka and Menalque or something lol

Does that make sense? Thoughts?

[Gimli]

I think if scum has multitasking it means they can perform multiple actions a.k.a. the kill, while doing something else as well

so klick could be visiting enchant and killing kokichi last night, for instance. same goes for enchant afaict.

pedit: that looks good.

I did look quite obvious in hindsight in hollow knight, didn't I. I thought furtive would tell at some point, which is why I pocketed him first with the vig gift.

[Klick]

I'm not really the right person for the question either sorry Comus

I did look quite obvious in hindsight in hollow knight, didn't I. I thought furtive would tell at some point, which is why I pocketed him first with the vig gift.

Nah you made up for it with very strong distraction/obfuscation. It's easy for me to analyse stuff in hindsight, but at the time I was only somewhere in like 75ish% confidence on you being scum.

[Comus]

1 scum dies. Probably goon. Scum enchant and klick left. Klick has to visit, enchnat cant heal if klick kills. So enchant has to heal and kill, if klick seems in danger, unless enchant chooses self heal then klick has to visit and kill.

Dodgy logic but I'm discounting Klick/Enchant team as of now.

Ausuka I'm still ignoring but the way I see it Ausuka's role might make sense as 'too townie to be scum' for scum. But might be straight up town role idek. Not talking about Ausuka more cos

I have no real thoughts beyond this.

I'm starting to doubt there's a vig, I'll trust Enchnat, which makes Enchant town for me. Gimli's push on Enchant looks horrible to me then.

I'm happy to force menalque to claim. I think scum Sky would have claimed long ago.

[Klick]

I think it's likely that Sky is just busy and it's NAI

I think pressure to claim sooner than later is the best approach regardless

[Comus]

If Enchant claim true, and no vig, Enchant/Kawaii team also less likely, I mean no vig enchant basically cleared for me.

Kawaii scum hider makes little sense if no town vig. So. No vig means either kawaii cleared town by Ausuka and Elsa. Or.

Kawaii lied and is checker.

And more spicy: Ausuka's role is scum role, Kawaii is maybe checker, Ausuka and Kawaii used Elsa to confirm their roles and create fakeclaim for Kawaii, no one lims a hider easily.

I am not discounting Ausuka/Kawaii.