Mini Normal 2294: Monkey Business (Endgame)

[Comus]

you really waited until now to claim Commuter??

This is cute actually. Klick if you're town I'm sorry if I caused you to be mad, I would love playing with you in the future but I know I'm an arse so the choice is yours and I'll respect it.

If you're scum meh just blacklist me and get it over with.

I'm quite serious on Kawaii/Ausuka/Klick but seeing as I haven't done that whole ISO thing(If i even will) I'll say this: I'm 97% certain Kawaii and Ausuka are aligned scum. This post, I'm doing this post pretty much because I want to give you a chance.

Because: I'm considering menalque and Gimli as thirds right now as well.

menalque acted weird, especially coming in after long absence to say 'Sky is bussing Kawaii.'
Gimli, well, simply for believing kawaii claim lol. And the earlier Enchant shade I didn't like. And the skygazer push.

The only reason I'm being friendly here to you, to be honest, after my delicious poetry, is because I can see others aligned with Kawaii/Ausuka, even though I am still strongly considering you as a candidate.

geraintm... I just don't know. Probably not but they've done so little this game that, while everyone townreads it, I'm just indifferent at this point.

I enjoyed our earlier discussions, and really really thought you had a town mentality there. But start of day, you felt very very scummy to me, as well as end day 2. So I don't know. Take this how you wish, me trying to pocket you, whatever.

If you're town, know this: One main reason I became fully convinced you're aligned with Ausuka/Klick was your 'Kawaii partners in geraintm/menalque/enchant' post. Enchant is pretty much doctor, so, same with what Gimli did, not sure bout you going after them there. But honestly menalque make some sense? Although I feel the way Ausuka spoke with menalque today, you know maybe not.

So we come to Gimli. You earlier said you are suspicious of Gimli. I liked that, felt you were acting towny toward me, so if you're town and Gimli is actually scum I don't want to scare you away with my personality and make things more difficult for everyone.

And if you're town and you really had enough of me(I get that, I can be cunt) I'd like to be peaceful this game anyway for the sake of catching the final scum.

The way Gimli just comes in with 'yeah I believe kawaii claim' reads all kind of wrong to me. I don't know. That's why I'd like another perspective. No one is going to change my mind on kawaii/ausuka. No amount of "Comus is in deep end" or "Or oh Comus just doing the same" is going to do the trick here. So everyone can just forget about thinking I'm not going to push kawaii/ausuka.

And Ausuka/Gimli is a hard sell, I know that. Requires explanation of Day 1 theatre, though I'd say the Day 2 'Oh I'm voting Gimli' and 'Oh Yeah Gimli not really scum' can totally be Aus/Gimli theatre.

If you're town, if you feel like it, I really wish for you to look at Gimli and menalque, and yeah geraintm but c'mon theres nothing actually there ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

if you're scum just ignore this, I've said to much, and ignore me.

[Comus]

People voting Kawaiikame(Illuminati)

Skygazer
Comus

People who don't seem to trust Kawaii claim but neither really trust Skygazer claim(Paradox Hedge Knights)

Enchant
Menalque

Person who started saying 'yeah kawaii likely scum here' and then pivoted to 'yeah can actually be town'(Hedgey Hedge Knight)

Klick

Person saying 'yeah wow Kawaii ain't lying' (Blank Knight)

Just Gimli?

Person saying they don't trust Kawaii while 97% being in a PT with them (Frog Knight)

Ausuka

A ghost haunting the castle

geraintm

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yeah this day is just going to be a barrel of fun I can already see it. Honestly don't have the energy for this. Kawaii is scum. That's all. Figure the rest out yourselves.

[geraintm]

geraintm... I just don't know. Probably not but they've done so little this game that, while everyone townreads it, I'm just indifferent at this point.

I enjoyed our earlier discussions, and really really thought you had a town mentality there. But start of day, you felt very very scummy to me, as well as end day 2. So I don't know. Take this how you wish, me trying to pocket you, whatever.

i wasn't around end of day 2?
and the start of today, i have barely posted anything because someone wanted a mass claim and i was waiting my turn and i got so bored i just skipped to my turn to actually say something.

i need to go over the wagons now from the game

[Gimli]

@comus: look I'm kind of seasoned played, I was playing more mafia in sites that are long dead like 10+ years ago but I shouldn't be missing things like how many shots I have? and I did that as scum in that hollow knight game, I claimed ungated by mistake when I was actual two shot. and I was carrying a massive amount of WIM there, I just missed the information.

kawaii doesn't seem to have missed the information, he even played around it and holstered last night. so the two shot claim? I buy it, completely. doesn't make him town but am I scumreading kawaii? eh? not really?

don't think we flip a wolf here if that's the logic though, I think we're running a potato town and doing horrible shit cause scum gets to just coast and let us be loud and wrong

[Gimli]

I would maybe scumread klick's unwillingness to engage with comus cause I thought klick was more patient than I am but he is totally 100% in his town meta this gameday

could be a wolf but I don't think he tries to save town from itself as scum. would you, klick? just to get back at me?

[Comus]

geraintm... I just don't know. Probably not but they've done so little this game that, while everyone townreads it, I'm just indifferent at this point.

I enjoyed our earlier discussions, and really really thought you had a town mentality there. But start of day, you felt very very scummy to me, as well as end day 2. So I don't know. Take this how you wish, me trying to pocket you, whatever.

i wasn't around end of day 2?
and the start of today, i have barely posted anything because someone wanted a mass claim and i was waiting my turn and i got so bored i just skipped to my turn to actually say something.

i need to go over the wagons now from the game

I'm honestly indifferent, sincere when I say that, but by current POE is basically Kawaii+Ausuka>Klick? Gimli? Menalque? so don't worry about mean obsessive ol' me. Just.... please try and keep an open mind. Just because my behavior is erratic and I act all funny doesn't mean I'm always wrong, so please keep an open mind because my voice isn't going to be heard much anymore and town is gonna need level heads, trust me.

If the scum team includes some of the people I suspect it does things are going to an uphill battle every damn inch and I'm stepping back from that for now.

good luck ; )

[Klick]

@Comus: I just don't understand why you believe what you believe and you haven't shown a lot of interest in explaining it compared to how much you want to shove it down the throats of everyone else in the game. Which is frustrating in any situation, but especially when I am aware that you're wrong and it makes it much harder for us to get anywhere. I see poorly-justified hyperconfidence so often on this site, there is very rarely decent basis for that hyperconfidence, it's wrong much more often than it is right, and it makes it incredibly difficult to have actual meaningful discourse. Because actual meaningful discourse is possible to have in these games, it's the primary reason I play them.

When you make statements about levels of confidence, unless you can back it up through some background of having been incredibly right before, there's no reason for anyone to follow you on them unless you can explain how you came to the conclusions you came to.

I find it very likely that you are overstating your level of confidence in your reads for influential reasons (or other reasons that are similar). Is that accurate? If so, are you willing to have a real conversation about your real reads, their strength, and the thoughts that led to them? I'm willing to hear out your ideas behind Kawaii/Ausuka being scum together, but I want to look at them myself, form my own conclusions, and discuss them with you, even if you are currently in a place where you feel really confident about them being scum. That's how we're going to come to an accurate answer as a group.

[Klick]

I would maybe scumread klick's unwillingness to engage with comus cause I thought klick was more patient than I am but he is totally 100% in his town meta this gameday

could be a wolf but I don't think he tries to save town from itself as scum. would you, klick? just to get back at me?

The level I've gone to to try to get town in a good place today is further than I think I'd go as scum yeah

I have linked the Mafia Discussion plan thing in a scum game before (the one with furtive and Ceph) but I didn't do much other than that to influence the gamestate because it was a won gamestate

I actually want to turn this into a favorable position for town and I think you can see that

[Comus]

@comus: look I'm kind of seasoned played, I was playing more mafia in sites that are long dead like 10+ years ago but I shouldn't be missing things like how many shots I have? and I did that as scum in that hollow knight game, I claimed ungated by mistake when I was actual two shot. and I was carrying a massive amount of WIM there, I just missed the information.

kawaii doesn't seem to have missed the information, he even played around it and holstered last night. so the two shot claim? I buy it, completely. doesn't make him town but am I scumreading kawaii? eh? not really?

don't think we flip a wolf here if that's the logic though, I think we're running a potato town and doing horrible shit cause scum gets to just coast and let us be loud and wrong

yeah, I don't care, I'm not buying it.

complex checker. not hider. I'm tunneled Gimli and your words mean nothing to me. Kawaii/Ausuka. + third (???) probably in Klick/Gimli/Menalque.

Please try to convince others, go wild, I don't have the energy to fight for the truth anymore.

if you're town, whatever, you do you.
If you're scum, well, you have a decent chance to win this. I'd like to see where you try to shift the wagon today tho, as scum.

Anyway.

have fun, whatever path you chose in this universe.

[Gimli]

if I'm scum and kawaii is scum then I am calling kawaii scum since earlier than everyone else

this is the spot to do it, just push your poor old teammate to oblivion

if you think ausuka would defend kawaii here as scum, or that klick would do it, as a team, then you're off on the wrong track imo

[Comus]

Which is frustrating in any situation, but especially when I am aware that you're wrong and it makes it much harder for us to get anywhere

Yeah I'm a frustrating person.

I believe in Kawaii/Ausuka.

I might be willing to discuss everything all friendly like later but right now I'm just a stone wall, silent, stolid, uncaring.

If you're town I wish you luck, really, I think this day is gonna be tough. Thanks for sharing your thoughts though, I know how I play but I'm sort of mental so I change as my life changes, mostly. I'm aware of my faults but I also know that I can be very, very right sometimes.

i hope you have a great time : )

[Comus]

if I'm scum and kawaii is scum then I am calling kawaii scum since earlier than everyone else

this is the spot to do it, just push your poor old teammate to oblivion

if you think ausuka would defend kawaii here as scum, or that klick would do it, as a team, then you're off on the wrong track imo

I'm voting KawaiiKame. I'm where I need to be. And now, I'm gone. Fly birdie fly.

[Gimli]

My take: not impossible that kawaii is town who fucked up hard, but we would deserve to lose if we didn’t lim someone who fucked up their claim that hard (NB: given that we assume sky town for balance reasons)

kawaii did not fuck anything up

he had NO REASON to claim 2 shot before skygazer's claim

the only reason we think he 'fucked up hard' is because he took so long to do it we all thought he was scum for it

2x isnt' the kind of modifier that you have to say it like shield doctor and loud whatever like the other roles. you claim gated when you're fucking out of shots. let mafia be scared of you or something.

[Gimli]

mena and skygazer are pushing a narrative that kills a townie

[Gimli]

VOTE: menalque

[geraintm]

y

VOTE: menalque

I just checked, they were 2nd last on both the 2 wagons

[geraintm]

And they were where I ended up yesterday after i looked at thr wagons even before the town flip from last night
VOTE: menal

[Klick]

I know you said you don't like the philosophical/meta/etc conversations Comus, but I mean this as a genuine piece of advice. You can take it or leave it but I'm saying it because I think it's important myself and you might find it helpful.

One of the coolest things about Mafia to me is the fact that, at the end of the game, there is

an answer

. One answer, one solution to the game. Everyone can argue as much as they want while a game is ongoing, but after that game is over the truth becomes clear.

And so what you can do is, when that game ends, you can go back and look at the things you posted, the things you thought about others, and evaluate them with the

literal objective truth

as a guide. Was that hard gut read I had correct, or did I misread their personality, or was it something else entirely? Did that person make that horrible play because they were scum, or because they misunderstood something? How good were my reads

literally

, in an objective sense, instead of how good I think they are?

I know you have said you don't like meta or outside influence, I don't assume to know why that's the case and you're free to your opinion on that. But I find that going back at the end of games and looking at

why

games like this with one truth play out the way they do after they've ended gives me so much context for truth as a concept, not just in future games, but in evaluating life situations.

But that's just my perspective, for all that it's worth

[Comus]

But I find that going back at the end of games and looking at

why

games like this with one truth play out the way they do after they've ended gives me so much context for truth as a concept, not just in future games, but in evaluating life situations.

I appreciate this but we are very different people. I'm stubborn regarding certain subsets of my being and overall the past easily fades into a vapid dream.

Enough about me though, regardless of alignment I appreciate what you're trying to say but I know myself very very well and what might seem as ignorant obnoxiousness to others is simply myself allowing myself to not really care all that much about what I am.

[implosion]

Vote Count 3.3

KawaiiKame (2): Comus, Skygazer
Menalque (2): Gimli, geraintm

Not Voting (5): KawaiiKame, Menalque, Enchant, Ausuka, Klick

With 9 alive, it takes 5 votes to eliminate.

Deadline is April 4 at 3:00 PM PST, in (expired on 2023-04-04 18:00:00).

[Menalque]

Can you confirm quickly what your role is?

Hider

Can you confirm quickly what your role is?

Hider

any modifiers??

Can you confirm quickly what your role is?

Hider

any modifiers??

No

ok so we elim kawaii

so kawaii is scum and scum is either informed and fucked up or not informed and my role is designed as a sort of gotcha during claim time

leaning towards the latter bc that would explain the lack of town power i guess

Can you confirm quickly what your role is?

Hider

any modifiers??

I'm x2 shot, does that count as a modifier?

@gimli re: “kawaii had no reason to claim it pre-sky’s claim” he was asked in this sequence of posts, in massclaim, and then immediately walked back the claim

He didn’t say “oh yeah, I’m doing this because I was trying to make scum still fear me (still a relatively terrible idea unless you have a role that makes scum want to kill you, which is uh, never gonna happen when you’re literally a hider??)” he just added the “wait is 2 shot a modifier?” thing

He absolutely did fuck up by not claiming the 2shot modifier when he was asked the first time, and only claiming when he realised it guilties him in light of sky’s claim

[Menalque]

And while, yes, that fuck up is possible as town, Occam’s razor is that he is just scum who is trying to save his ass from a bad claim by adding a 2 shot modifier

[Menalque]

y

VOTE: menalque

I just checked, they were 2nd last on both the 2 wagons

Yes

[Comus]

Gimli might actually just be very good and the team is menalque/skygazer/enchant.

VOTE: menalque

I'm wishing I'm right on Ausuka/Kawaii/?. It's such an abstract little solve that's gutsy from their scumteam. But hey something has to happen and it might as well be this.

If scum is informed then 'Informed detective' and 'modified shield doctor' might be the kind of dodgy fakeclaims i'd expect not gonna lie. Probably means Ausuka dies tonight.

I suggest town hammers quick before I do an 180 and just vote Kawaii for pound ng scummy af.

[Comus]

*sounding scummy af.

Adieu honey badgers.