Mini Normal 2296: Pictures of my cat, sometimes | GAME OVER

[DeasVail]

Btw I’m still very suspicious of Mala but am okay with a Dessew elimination for today

[KawaiiKame]

Then you look at his most recent post, asks about College's vote on DEB. Town doesn't ask this question. I honestly can't see what you guys can, because his posts have been imo null at best

in this situation, where multiple people who you think are town believe that Mitillos is town and are feeling partial to the case on you, why do you become more convinced of Mitillos being scum, rather than question your view of the game?

Valid af question, sticking to your guns is admirable if wholeheartedly believe you're right and everyone else is wrong, but there is a fine line between conviction and stubbornness, wisdom exists in believing you might be wrong in this @Dessew

[Emperor flippyNips]

Idk dessew keeps calling me obv!town so I’m getting nice and cozy in his pocket

[Emperor flippyNips]

Maybe I do a question. Why am I obv!town to you @dessew? I mean, I know it’s obvious but in your words

[Emperor flippyNips]

See the thing is. He’s active and we have a couple people just flying under the radar. I’d rather get rid of them if they don’t step it up. If dess is scum it’ll be obvious in the coming day phases with The amount of activity that’s been there

[Enchant]

We live in timeline where getting rid of lurkers considered "hunting for low hunging fruit" and scummy. Now no one does it and lurking is preferable for everyone.

Kinda silly.

[Tchill13]

I refuse to discuss play styles in this game. Gets me so annoyed. Not going down tht road again lol. I'll just say lurking sucks.

[Tchill13]

See the thing is. He’s active and we have a couple people just flying under the radar. I’d rather get rid of them if they don’t step it up. If dess is scum it’ll be obvious in the coming day phases with The amount of activity that’s been there

VOTE: T3

I've gotten enough info out of the dess wagon tbh.

[Dessew]

Then you look at his most recent post, asks about College's vote on DEB. Town doesn't ask this question. I honestly can't see what you guys can, because his posts have been imo null at best

in this situation, where multiple people who you think are town believe that Mitillos is town and are feeling partial to the case on you, why do you become more convinced of Mitillos being scum, rather than question your view of the game?

I have been listing problems I have with Mitillos' posts, has anyone addressed them?
Also, does your question mean you think I'm town? You wouldn't ask this from mafia.

Maybe I do a question. Why am I obv!town to you @dessew? I mean, I know it’s obvious but in your words

I've been a bit torn on this, but I guess if there's daytalk, then it helps town more if we say it openly. You breadcrumbed being neighbours with DEB, right? It was very obvious, and you also messed up the spoiler tag. Neighbour is a town role afaik, and of all the roles, mafia should be tha least likely to fakeclaim it because if we have any investigative town role, they only need to check one of you, so it's a definite towntell for me.

On that note, even if you don't concede that Mitillos is mafia, we should also establish that he's on some PT because of his slip-up. I have this theory that T3 might be in the same PT, but I'm not 100% about this.

[bristep123]

Not keen on lynching lurkers, feels like a crap shoot and tells us far less if we get it right/wrong.

[Emperor flippyNips]

See the thing is. He’s active and we have a couple people just flying under the radar. I’d rather get rid of them if they don’t step it up. If dess is scum it’ll be obvious in the coming day phases with The amount of activity that’s been there

VOTE: T3

I've gotten enough info out of the dess wagon tbh.

I may or May not sheep on this one, more to come

[Emperor flippyNips]

Not keen on lynching lurkers, feels like a crap shoot and tells us far less if we get it right/wrong.

Yah I guess, if people keep lurking I feel like it’d be better to get it over with sooner rather than later but nbd. I might look into T3

[Emperor flippyNips]

I never really care to do much d1 nor do I think anything from d1 holds much weight

[Tchill13]

Not keen on lynching lurkers, feels like a crap shoot and tells us far less if we get it right/wrong.

And if the site as a whole continues to not be keen on lynching lurkers then lurking will run rampant.

This actually ties into my ultra hard gut read of t3.

These ppl that sit back. You have to catch them in a slight mess up. Such as an awkward greeting. Due to the fact that they don't play enough to give you anything to go off. We've already discussed that when t3 was here t3 didn't accomplish anything either.

"We can't vote out lurkers. Not enough info." Coupled with ppl also saying... "Dang I was I was scum playing town is so boring." Is a really enfuriating experience.

Not sure why ppl don't want to play town. You're either garbage at game solving or your garbage as scum trying to act like you're town. So you play a few trash games as town so you're scum game is stronger when it comes to past game comparisons.... Rant over.

But come on people. Let's get this game going.

[Tchill13]

I never really care to do much d1 nor do I think anything from d1 holds much weight

Agreed. This game is already starting to move slow. I have plenty of great reads from this d1 let's get this show on the road.

[Kop]

It seems we won't just simply get over this random vote topic :/ The underlying question is, as I understand it, is whether modvotes are worse than regular random votes. If they are, then T3's start was bad, and possibly scummy. Even though I've seen some arguments here why that vote was completely okay, originally I was of the same opinion as Tchill (but now I'd say it's not a tell). In any case, this discussion is less about the gamestate and more about what I'd call "advanced theory", and I doubt it can bring us far. Shifting the discussion to the presentation and changes in the arguments would be more fruitful imo.

My list on page 3 was ordered from mafia to town.

College, DEB and Flippy are obviously town. I don't want to present any arguments here, but if you vote them, you need an absolutely unassailable case for that, as far as I'm concerned. DV has been proactive town, I really like their play, and KK doesn't make sense to as mafia. These are my townreads.

My scumreads (including lean-scum) are bristep, Mitillos, redFF and Mala, in this order. RedFF's and bristep's utter refusal to understand Tchill's posts is baffling to me, I think it introduces a kind of chaos mafia wants during the day. Bristep's piggyback is an especially bad look. Mitillos is super sus, I'm happy with my vote where it is. Mala's concerning, she's being way more passive than expected, but we'll see, my read on her is fairly weak.

The rest is roughly null atm.

How can you say that someone is obvious town, especially on day one? There is having reads that you think someone is town, but no one is obvious town unless they've been investigated or proven to be town. They may post some posts that feel town, and might make them look obvious town, but that isn't always 100% the case so I don't know how you can say that with absolute certainty.

College's (now Enchant's) role could be something that might be discussed in a certain PT somewhere, but as far as I can tell, it hasn't been directly discussed in the thread (except by Dessew) for several pages. It was briefly mentioned by DEB and DV in passing, and technically implied as a topic by KK's vote, but that's about it.

Isn't this a quaint thing to say? Mafia can't usually communicate during the day. I know they can sometimes, but not in most cases.
So if that's where your mind takes you and if you're mafia, then you must have daytalk or whatever the mechanic is called.

- Post 166: T3 votes DEB. Dessew does not question this.

There's only so many things I can do at the same time, and I'm pushing you. My top scumread is more important than a "placeholder vote". The vote is bad, though.

- Post 171: KK votes Enchant (college). Dessew does not question this.

College got replaced, and I see no harm in pressuring the replacement. It's unnecessary imo, but I can see a rationale behind it.

And this is the point that I'm not getting in your evolving reads. You said that college was obvious town, but now you want pressure on the replacement slot. I understand the point that it's two different players, but it's two different opinions. I don't know if it's just me, but if a slot is obvious town read to me, and gets replaced, it wouldn't be particularly a slot that would alter unless the read is getting untenable and they take the read away.

[Dessew]

@Kop: I said in the post that I think putting pressure on Enchant is unnecessary. I mean, it's right there in the post, just read the post, right?

[Kop]

Bogus is to say that I do not believe what I am saying. Day 1 intros are sometimes extremely awkward for scum. Feels like T3 seen an easy route to intro then leave for a bit. As opposed to me who was still going to be around to interact.

I kinda get what you're getting at with the whole argument that you're making. Would I necessarily scum read him from his joke vote on the mod? I don't know. He could have simply said hi then announced his V/LA, but it's subjective for his reasoning but he hasn't done anything of note since his return so he really isn't exactly doing himself any favours.

So if I was to take a side in this whole debate, I'd probably be alongside you in this debate because at least with your joke vote on the mod, you've been pressing the interaction, possibly longer than it should have been, but you've not been on this entirely. T3 is kinda trying to brush it off, I feel.

But I wouldn't necessarily say for certain that he is scum for it, though. Or you for this matter.

I’m what way am I trying to brush it off? I engaged with Tchill and asked questions.

You may have asked questions to try and get reasoning from Tchill. But I felt at the time, the questions to me, weren't going to get the reactions or answers that enhance the whole back and forth. It's probably me that is only getting the point that I'm thinking off, but it just felt that you were trying to get away from the debate.

Why would scum!me want to get away from the debate?

There can be many reasons that people want to get away from debates. Less said, less incriminating. Less chances of slipping. Less chances of saying something that could be held against me at some point in the game. Did I say it was scum you? I don't recall that I did.

I just said that it felt that you were trying to get away from it with pretty lame questions that really to me don't serve a great purpose.

[Kop]

@Kop: I said in the post that I think putting pressure on Enchant is unnecessary. I mean, it's right there in the post, just read the post, right?

I misread it, my apologies.

However, with your whole stance on what you said earlier though, I'd have expected more of a rebuttal, than it's unnecessary.

[Thestatusquo]

Hey everyone, quick reminder that the site no longer uses the L word to refer to eliminating players due to its history of racialized violence in the US. The term "eliminate" or "lim" is now preferred. Thanks!

[Thestatusquo]

VoteCount 1.4

Dessew [ 4 ]

Mitilos, Dr Easy Bake, redFF, Bristep123

T3 [ 3 ]

Enchant, Malakittens, Tchill13

Malakittens [ 1 ]

DeasVail

Enchant [ 1 ]

KawaiiKame

Mitillos [ 1 ]

Dessew

Dr Easy Bake [ 1 ]

T3

Not Voting [ 2 ]

Kop, Emperor FlippyNips

With 13 alive it takes 7 votes to be executed.

Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2023-04-03 16:47:31)

[T3]

With daytalk in mind, I think #166 implies T3 is mafia. The vote doesn't make much sense, and I was busy pushing Mitillos, so it could be expected that I wouldn't comment. There's a real chance that it was a setup for Mitillos' legalistic nonsense argument. Notice that then he tried to push the narrative with College's vote on DEB, which is an immediate scumtell, regardless of anything else.

Can you please explain this to me like I'm 5

[Mitillos]

You'll note that I said "might", because in fact, I don't know if this particular setup has daytalk

This is a brazen lie. Let's take a look at the original quote:

College's (now Enchant's) role could be something that might be discussed in a certain PT somewhere

Does anyone actually believe that here Mitillos is wondering if there's daytalk in this game? Come on, no, he isn't. He wanted to be snarky, but slipped up in the process.

Massive misrep. I didn't say I was wondering, I said I used the word "might" because I didn't know whether daytalk existed. Calling something like that a slip is incredibly disingenuous and a huge reach. Anyway, I will remind everyone how this whole argument came about: because Dessew was claiming that somehow college's role was a hot topic, when it clearly wasn't. So, either this was in Dessew's imagination, or it was happening elsewhere. And yes, I was being snarky, but that doesn't mean I was joking about that.

----
Regarding the lurking thing, if Dessew hadn't pinged my radar, I'd have been going after lurkers. Lurking is anti-town.

----
@T3: I think Dessew is saying that we are mafia together, that you voted for DEB at a time when Dessew was too busy to demand an explanation from you, and that you did this specifically so I could then push Dessew on the fact he wouldn't demand an explanation from you. I'll be honest, I like this, because it's a massive Batman gambit, and I am a Batman enjoyer. As it happens, it's complete poppycock, because there would have been no reason to assume Dessew would say nothing about the vote to begin with, so all this would have done is get more scrutiny onto T3 unnecessarily.

[Mitillos]

EBWOP: Sorry, not DEB. Whomever the vote in post 166 was on.

[redFF]

Then you look at his most recent post, asks about College's vote on DEB. Town doesn't ask this question. I honestly can't see what you guys can, because his posts have been imo null at best

in this situation, where multiple people who you think are town believe that Mitillos is town and are feeling partial to the case on you, why do you become more convinced of Mitillos being scum, rather than question your view of the game?

I have been listing problems I have with Mitillos' posts, has anyone addressed them?
Also, does your question mean you think I'm town? You wouldn't ask this from mafia.

Maybe I do a question. Why am I obv!town to you @dessew? I mean, I know it’s obvious but in your words

I've been a bit torn on this, but I guess if there's daytalk, then it helps town more if we say it openly. You breadcrumbed being neighbours with DEB, right? It was very obvious, and you also messed up the spoiler tag. Neighbour is a town role afaik, and of all the roles, mafia should be tha least likely to fakeclaim it because if we have any investigative town role, they only need to check one of you, so it's a definite towntell for me.

On that note, even if you don't concede that Mitillos is mafia, we should also establish that he's on some PT because of his slip-up. I have this theory that T3 might be in the same PT, but I'm not 100% about this.

I think you are confusing neighbors with masons.

Neighbors are players who share a pt, but do not know each others alignments.

Masons are neighbors who are confirmed town to each other.