Mini Normal 2294: Monkey Business (Endgame)

[Menalque]

I disagree with premise (1) that Gimli has been doing nothing btw

What did gimli do then

[Menalque]

Gimli this game reminds me in broad strokes of fire in this game: viewtopic.php?t=89500

Where everyone else thought fire was town (for being around and active and talking to and with people) and I just sort of said that I couldn’t really see the town there or in any of what he was doing until I died

And then he flipped scum at the end and we lost :shrug:

[Menalque]

Obviously different players but it feels the same in everyone townbinning gimli and me just not seeing it and being told that he’s apparently locktown despite there not being anything really towny that he did all game (arguably I can see the case for him solving today but I’m obviously unsympathetic to that given how much of the “solving” was “working hard to get me (mena) limmed”)

I sort of want to give him credit for not hammering but I also think that given he knows I flip town and he’s put enough work in that he just doesn’t want to be on me when I get flipped

And ofc if we flip someone else who isn’t town then I’m an easy push for game winning mislim tomorrow

I can’t fault him strategically, I think he’s played a great game and has targeted the right people I suppose

[Gimli]

movie night didn't happen, guess you're stuck with me instead

[Gimli]

I'm currently uninterested in flipping mena tbh

[Menalque]

I think that if I’m right and you’re scum you’ve played this really really well gimli, and if I’m wrong and you’re town then uh I guess I think you’ve played fine and my bad

[geraintm]

So far my vague impression is that gera is a lot scummier in that game than in this one and in particular is a lot more self-focussed in the late game

But I want more confident conclusions than thay

I think I am very obvious as scum

I find it to be a red flag that you also said exactly this in the game I linked

You say that you feel like you're obvious when you're scum. Do you think that means there are obvious differences between your posting when you're scum and your posting when you're town?

That's what I'm trying to get at here. Help me see what you see. If you're obvious scum when you're scum, help show that you're not doing the things you always do when you're scum. Don't worry so much about how what you're saying

sounds

- just give me an honest contrast between what you're doing here and what you do that's so obvious in your scum games.

I think I am obvious when scum, I cannot help it if when playing others don't think that when I am, and you can't blame me for not pointing out their mistakes during the game. Maybe the obviousness is only because I can see it as I play? Dunno. I know I have caused people problems, why I have asked in games to be checked early but people just didn't.

Mood swings would be the way I normally give off scum vibes, and bad votes out of character with my posts. Like, if I suddenly hammered a townie and used a really forced reason - something I look out for in others - that would be something scummy .

BTW, I notice after the vote count that those with roles need to sort themselves out and if it is needed, work out among yourselves who is doing what. Need to get things right tonight

[Gimli]

I'm not scum and my play in this game was my usual bad

[Gimli]

Menalque (4): geraintm, Comus, KawaiiKame, Enchant
KawaiiKame (3): Ausuka, Menalque, Gimli

if mena is scum he is being bussed surely? and he is not OMGUSing the wolf that's bussing him, he is not even arguing that kawa is necessarily scum. I think mena painted himself an odd picture in this gameday if he is scum. I think it's possible but atm I guess kawa is more likely?

[Gimli]

I'm not gonna squint really hard to figure out what gera is in this game, I don't think the metadive is gonna be conducive to much. I've skimmed his wolf game and yeah it was worse by a fair margin but he repeated some of that stuff here like complaining a lot about d1 reads and things like that

[Comus]

I feel the need to deconstruct some scum narrative.

Why do you actually think Comus is scum Mena

The very, very cliff notes — the way he changed off from me being locktown with ausuka

Ausuka only became locktown with Gimli after I called mena/sky/enchant. Before this I fully believed Ausuka, Klick and Kawaii were a team, I trusted the sky claim.

to me being scum when gimli started pushing me

Gimli's early takes this day were really good and I have no idea why he saved kawaii and caught at least two scum just to go full panic mode. I mean, I can guess

felt really forced

in this and the big post below this you keep using the term 'forced' like I'm some Sith lord or something. If by forced you mean I finally reached a mechanically viable solve because you're bad at theatre, sure.

and I don’t believe it for an instant,

You're scum so you sort of have to. But sure, sure, I get you have to act this out. Work on your tone though.

I also don’t believe his PR claim

I hope you don't, means I catch scum tonight. Sky does though, maybe try and hash it out in the PT?

and think his positing of a world of (mena, sky, enchant) as the team is completely ridiculous

Currently mechanically certain on you and Sky. Enchant can be fake claiming but I admit town power looks real whacky in that case XD XD XD geraitnm? I'll say he's town/null but honestly I want the satisfaction of hammering him so sure it's gera then, let's get gera!(gera distancing from u and nepenthe isn't that far-fetched I guess) Kawaii? A bit insane of a solve, I'm sure you would have coached kawaii what to claim N1 or after the visionary check, what with sky/nepenthe being informed and posting that info in PT.

Which leaves Klick. Like I'll just locktown klick and move on, let others worry bout them once I'm dead. Ausuka? Nah, you and sky spewed Ausuka as town. Gimli? I can't believe that XD why would Gimli push both sky and mena like this today? If Gimli is aligned then 10/10 on the theatre from his side XD And for showing me his buddies XD

because in that case setup balance has basically been taken out behind the wood shed, shot in the back of the head, and buried in a shallow grave

Do you want me to believe that Enchant is a town doctor shield or not? I mean sure you have to play to scum wincon but give Comus a hint here, is Enchant just straight up town? Or is Enchant bussing you while Sky is vote parked on them for distance? I really want clarity on Enchant and you seem like an informed feline, help me out.

[Comus]

There's room for one more, it's real cozy.

May the universe be fair.

[Klick]

Geraintm is town, he's genuine in this game. He was demotivated early, but his content towards the middle of the game looks nothing like scum!geraintm. His engagement with me on this just now is also really towny.

[Gimli]

you think the 'not a cunt' readslist is unlikely to come from scum gera as well?

[Gimli]

Look theough Kawaii's ISO.

One topic: Elsa. I've never seen something like it.

This is disingenuous af and I feel you know it, me talking about Elsa extensively does not invalidate me asking how Elsa's cop claim is fakeclaiming by tone alone? Elsa is not my one topic either, why do you strawman me?

Instead of answering my question you dodge it by saying I talk about Elsa a lot...

I have never seen kawa mad in any game he played and I'm currently thinking lines like this one are not things kawa really engages in threads as scum

[Klick]

I didn't really have it in mind. But yeah, I don't have any issues seeing that post from a town perspective

[Comus]

yeah Klick did an earlier ISO of geraintm and sadly realized that's probable.

He was onto nepenthe/menalque before it became hip, also on enchant. So if geraintm is town he's had super sharp reads and I shot down his menalque take. That's what I had to do though, my programming demanded it.

Have I seen gera get into a useless, overblown and heated fight with a townie in the one game I played with him where he was scum? Yes. Was he lurky and sort of non-commital there? I think so. Does this feel the same? Sadly, no.

Which either points to Enchant or Kawaii to me. Kawaii is absurd frankly. Enchant, sure, but then this town has a whole bunch of really whacky power roles XD 4 pr's that aren't that powerful, 6 VT's. Enchant can be doc *shrug*. So I think I'm not moving beyond menalque>sky at this point even if the menalque/sky/enchant ISO is a delicious read of how to hang back and let the really loud town voices tear things down XD

Bye bye and golden super lock for town.

[Comus]

But my experience with gera is limited.... earlier I wanted to make a whole post about his nepenthe/enchant/mena pushes out him as town then I realized yeah he just jumped onto menaqlue today and all of that can be theatre.... ultimately undecided. But the poe is gonna get easier anyway so

golden luck etc. adieu

[Gimli]

bye

I'm starting to doubt my ausuka townread as well

I'm guessing kawa is a townie after re-re-re-reading his ISO

he is getting rep'ed out and flaking sitewide apparently (hope saying that is not against the rules). its too bad cause lack of involvement make me doubt I should rly be townreading him.

[Menalque]

I think the funniest thing about 3485 is the suggestion that I’m bad at theatre when that’s like only good part of my scumgame nowadays lol

Also I forgot the last time but Comus necandae est

[geraintm]

DAy 2

VOTE: Menalque
sorry, i know this isn't where anyone else is but i just can't see how this doesn't have a higher than anyone else chance of being scum

Vote Count 2.7 (FINAL)

Elsa Jay (6): Skygazer, Gimli, Comus, KawaiiKame, Menalque, Ausuka
Kokichi Oma (2): Elsa Jay, Klick
Comus (1): Kokichi Oma
Menalque (1): geraintm

Not Voting (1): Enchant

Day 3

And they were where I ended up yesterday after i looked at thr wagons even before the town flip from last night
VOTE: menal

Yep, i just jumped onto Menalque today.

@klick
it isn't so much demotivated, i just don't enjoy putting effort in day 1 when i don't think it goes anywhere.

[Comus]

He was onto nepenthe/menalque before it became hip, also on enchant.

So by jumping on I meant 'no other pushes for a long while this game, jumps back onto menalque today.'

maybe not optimal scum play, voting your partner once Gimli votes him but...

I think I'm still not discounting a bus though. menalque going after me and gimli but not really questioning geraintm in this scenario might be telling, geraintm has been against him for quite some time... can the early gera/mena interaction with those longs posts be theatre? Did I catch onto menalque/sky theatre but not menalque/gera theatre : P In that case mena is right, that's pretty clever theatre, letting your buddy push you and then using that to form a townread on them that doesn't change....

That would make sense with gera actually being town if my initial read was right

This post, and the interaction with kawaii, might be telling at a later date.

------------------------------
sayonara

[Gimli]

Obviously different players but it feels the same in everyone townbinning gimli and me just not seeing it and being told that he’s apparently locktown despite there not being anything really towny that he did all game (arguably I can see the case for him solving today but I’m obviously unsympathetic to that given how much of the “solving” was “working hard to get me (mena) limmed”)

I sort of want to give him credit for not hammering but I also think that given he knows I flip town and he’s put enough work in that he just doesn’t want to be on me when I get flipped

And ofc if we flip someone else who isn’t town then I’m an easy push for game winning mislim tomorrow

I can’t fault him strategically, I think he’s played a great game and has targeted the right people I suppose

the problem with this is that you had me as your top town half the game

[Gimli]

'there not being anything really towny that he did all game' doesn't fit well with actually calling me top town half the game

now I'm scum cause it's more convenient I guess? but it seems like mena forgot his own lean on my slot here with this comment

[Gimli]

I'll be around in a bit to hammer but I guess there's still work to be done

kinda confident with this flip rn