Mini Normal 2298 - Game Over!

[Brian Skies]

Awesome, Cephir did most of the work so I don't have to.

I'd also like to include BPP's opening about using ChatGPT to develop reads, which I read as null-scummy.

The push from BPP onto Bob was also pretty bad as BPP accused Bob of not trying to sort the quickhammer situation even though that was what Bob was doing. It was as if BPP wanted someone to blame/push for his near elimination, and just chose Bob as his target and forced a reason to push him.

[Firebringer]

i waant to see MT forming reads of other people instead of what looks like arguing over why ballpoint was scumread?

[Andante]

Could I get a fasttrack as to why ballpoint is scum other than being indignant/angry for kind of no reason about not being heard. I can see that being read as awkward and contrived

i still need to see why I have so many "scum replacement is still scum replacement" sentiments!! That's when you have a slam dunk case, not circumstantial only!

Hey @Not_Mafia isn’t this the same reason I’m scum?

[Elpis]

Is there something I don't know about NM and him just hammering everyone forever or something??

Also, I am moved and settled in, I will be able to be more active now.

[Andante]

Is there something I don't know about NM and him just hammering everyone forever or something??

if someone is e-1 he's gonna instantly vote them and hammer

[Andante]

and uhh I'll probably be V/LA through Monday, kinda dealing with something major right now, I can try and check in, but we'll see, hoping for good news tomorrow, if it's bad you're not seeing me till probably monday

[Marquis]

scumteam is Norwegian, ballpointpen, Ceph
sadge
gtg will be back tmrw if no hammer

[Cephrir]

Ya I'm bussing both of them for fun

[Morning Tweet]

i waant to see MT forming reads of other people instead of what looks like arguing over why ballpoint was scumread?

my intent behind asking for the fast track was to understand why Cephrir seemed so sure (and gimli and andante) BPP is scum so sure to the point where Ceph would say "I think Morning is just going to come in and be towny either way" among other disclaimers.

From my understanding, BPP responded strangely angerly and self righteously under pressure and complained of "not being heard". Cephrir has reasserted now (824) this was the primary issue, so I know I'm not missing anything. I think Brian Skies explanation was reasonable (relating to the bob wagon). Cephrirs seems more guty But I guess it is possible Cephrir sees this as a particularly strong case for whatever reason. I get that this isn't the most useful thing to be doing, i'm going to start The Descent now

[Marquis]

I'm going out to eat do NOT lay another vote on me without a warning first. NM will kill me and he will not show remorse. Allow me to get a word in, at least b

this is a scum post lmao just like can we get back to this

[NorwegianboyEE]

scumteam is Norwegian, ballpointpen, Ceph
sadge
gtg will be back tmrw if no hammer

Yes there is no way i’m not scum. After all you explained your scumread on me so well. Like vibes or something?

[NorwegianboyEE]

MT whats ur reads on the game?

[Morning Tweet]

Marquis 37 obv town possibly

Lightly townread Elpis 94

Elpis and Marquis coicidentally have a very good page 8

Norwe I thought was being too unserious for too long but i dont feel like i have much there and he did make a good comment on Bob's read of Brian pg 8. I'm probably off

Bob saying the first wagon is morel ikely to land on town doesnt make any sense when Brian hadn't said anything that feels functionally equivalent to picking a name at random. First *serious* wagon would make more sense than *first wagon who happens to get multiple votes*.

Cephrir and Norwe mention Bobs 'moonlogic' is towny, bob usually gives the appearance of being moon logicky IMO and that didnt seem out of the usual.

NSG calling the thread almost entirely void of content beyond personality reads is a hell of a mood. I think she approaches D1 a lot the same way I do. I wouldnt go so far as to say i expect the game to be painful though. I'm really curious what "too informed to speculate" means.

232 by Elpis - Exactly, it's an RVS wagon, it is equal to random the guy had 1 post at the time

NSG is genuinely somewhat suspicious although I get where she's coming from as town with regards to the game being unapproachable. I feel like she might be taking it too far though

246 by Norwe - Because StD voted Elpis? I'm waiting to hear the reasoning for that because it was right after my townread formed

NSG meant uninformed :(

247 and on by NSG - I agree there isnt much content but you don't have to act like it!! Pretendddd
The bit about "expecting the way she is posting to further her own wagon" feeeeeels genuine enough i knooww that feeling.
NSG, you feel too hopeless for page 10. there could so many great things coming that couldnt be predicted

She continues to say she hasnt had a single opinion worth remembering Oof.

Ultimately thats probably townish


267 by norwe thru 270 by FB - Dragons can look really towny. But i guess i concur that it's usually later not like up front


277 by bob / 278 by FB - Bob is mostly pointing things out

297, marquis - I dont think there's been an overwhelming amount of noise. This is like, maybe a bit above average.

FB getting annoyed with NSG getting annoyed felt towny (page 13)

330 - Torn between NSG leaning into the antitown angle because FB literally laid it out there for her because she's being indignant town about it -- oorrrr, its also possible NSG just doesnt really get into the game at all as scum, sure.

FB's freakout on BPP getting run up mmmmmm Fire's trying this game now. I think he's moderately towny

349 by bob - That is... a fairly observant post, actually. About why would NSG want BPP quickhammered if she has no reads on anyone as far as he can tell

353 by NSG - Not sure if town NSG feels trolled by the game, tone-wise it feels somewhat genuine. But Fire makes a good point and its what i was just saying that it's like, weirdly early to feel this hopeless about a game! It always, ALWAYS heats up and it's weird NSG leans into the antitown angle so hard.

I'm inclined to believe NM saying NSG wouldnt be using the "i hate this game" angle as scum. But I can see logically why FB cannot see why NSG give s up on the game that early.

380 and on by BPP -- Ohhhh so this is what BPP was freaking out about? Well to be fair, you did almost kill him/me. Plus, thread apathy was being discussed although im not sure i would apply it to much of anyone besides NSG

I don't know Brian well enough to read into the "I would lol if NM lolhammers this" after he places Ballpoint on X-2 for NSG X-1.

395 by Brian - You're the one who voted him to X-2 in the first place! But yes you did unvote. I think Ceph and Brian are being way unreasonable about BPP's reaction here. BPP got a little ranty and vague in his complaints but it was totally justified to be like "Wtf brian" at least a little bit EVEN IF you unvoted

I like Elpis's response

Ethel just seems like they're having trouble getting into the game which is expected enough if they have 2 games of experience

I agree with Norwe that NSG is harder to read this way (Even she recognizes she'll get heat) but i kiind of lean the town option

Std calling Elpis mafia that looks like they're fitting in saying that's where his guts at and thats it.... I guess that's kind of towny justification lol

StD unvoting after Elpis responds also, mm

I kind of like the way Cephrir is interacting with NSG on 19 it seems coming from a real place

492 by Ethel - I actually really like this kind of thinking. NSG is engaging too much with the game for someone who would not like playing as scum -- i.e., i think she's engaging a lot because she knows she's right. That was actually super insightful

496 by FB - Norwe feels sliiiightly lacking, like there's something just a bit off this game. I expected, a liiiittle bit more gameplay and less joke. Maybe. I guess he has the strong read of finding NSG being purposefully NAI scummy, which is fair enough although i think i disagree

500 by Norwe the second time norwe comments on the game being stagnant But NORWeeeee what are you doing about that.
I genuinely think 502 by Norwe was kind of towny

508 by Gimli - I was thinking that with regards to Marquis and I think FB's later posts on NSG were espeically real looking

Agree with everything Gimli said (FB/Elpis/Marquis town) except calling the Andante/Bob wagon ass. There is no such thing as an ass bob wagon. You have to enter the realm of moon logic in order to approach bob, and once you've done that you can't even really go back. There are no concepts such as slam dunk wagons versus ass ones in the moon logic realm

519 by Andante - How is Cephrir calling NSG hating the game scummy an odd take, when we're talking about someone who doesnt like scum
520 Totally missing what andante is talking about here

523 - I'm not sure what Andante is wsaying here.

I cannot tell what Andante is saying. That Ethel post was a banger. And their argument with Ceph/STD doesnt make any sense

563 - Voting NM to generate pressure to get him to talk.. haha

565 by Brian - That was pretty observant. I think it's another indicator of Elpis being town, though. When you assume all the "obviously towny" players are town and the majority consensus suspicions are the most likely targets, i tend to fall into that thinking a lot more as tow

Gimli's town probably, a good balance of good takes and some not just quite right. At least with regards to the BPP bob thing

586 by NM - Why does NM bother to point that out at all as scum? I read it as slightly towny because he didn't need to give that bit of insight into NSG. Maybe an easy fake meta read / TMI Sure. I'm terrible at reading the cow

629 - I agree NM is making a lotta sense

673 - I dont like ethel placing me to X-2 at a joke at this point

FB's reaction to STD voting Ethel i think is particualrly towny pg 28

697 - This is the crutch of what i dont get about Ceph's read on BPP -- i dont see how BPP's anger strongly implies scum. At best i think its lightly towny but i could see it being sort of awkward. But now that I have proper context it felt totally justified to me (with regards to the X-1, not the "Why am i not being heard??" bit which came out of left field)

716 by Marquis - i agree i think std and fire and gimli are acting in good faith at least

740/741 by Ceph - I think you have a valid reason to suspect Ethel i'd ALMOSt go so far as to say that Ethel's behavior is suspicious.

I think Ether feeling the need to give reasons to why they make each vote when they believe that D1 is random is a bit odd
I might go as far as 492 might be TMI on NSG!town while also wanting to keep the NSG suspicion going. Ethel isn't explicitly calling NSG town (she confirms this in 749) although that post was a SUPER banger reason for NSG being town actually. Or maybe it just spurred me into thinking up some fictional reason that i've convinced came from ether, but still.

Meh I'm not really sure about that though. Ether clearly doesn't know what to do with their vote. It could be for innocent reasons too

page 32 cephrir you are COMICALLY convinced it's me (but we went over that)

812 by Cephrir - Most wouldn't say that about my scum game. In fact I'm not even sure if that applies to me at all. I eat elimination for breakfast

819 by Brian - I'm not convinced it wasnt Andante

Spoiler: verdict

Let me start to put this together

strong town

Marquis


Elpis


Firebringer

probably town

northsidegal

leaning town but i think that this has a wolf at least

Gimli(GuyInFreezer)
Brian Skies
Cephrir

Light town meaning i dont townread as hard as the above tier but simultaneously am less paranoid of these slots

Ethel
Save The Dragons

Unsure

NorwegianboyEE
Andante(bob3141)
Not_Mafia(Alisae) *


Oh god. We're nowhere!!!

Boom baaaby

[Morning Tweet]

Short version:

I'm reasonably convinced of Marquis and Elpis' innocence.

I'm 99% on Firebringer

I ultimately think that NSG is town, but only mostly. Think of this as an 80

I think most of Gimli, Brian, and Cephrir is town. But I wouldn't be surprised with probably one scum.

I think Dragons is actually town probably. That read list kind of doesnt really portray that well.

I also kind of changed my tune on Ethel and forgot to update that. She's definitely more unsure. Out of Andante/bob, NM, Norwe, and Ethel, I wouldn't really know.

[Morning Tweet]

I'm going out to eat do NOT lay another vote on me without a warning first. NM will kill me and he will not show remorse. Allow me to get a word in, at least b

this is a scum post lmao just like can we get back to this

Disagree im speaking facts there, i correctly analyze NM as a cold-blooded killer and react to the threat as soon as possible (in the form of begging and pleaing for time)

[Morning Tweet]

VOTE: Andante

[Cephrir]

Not bad (for probable scum, but I guess I'll try to chill on that)

[Cephrir]

Got any scum games I can look at?

[Elpis]

Marquis 37 obv town possibly

Lightly townread Elpis 94

Elpis and Marquis coicidentally have a very good page 8

Norwe I thought was being too unserious for too long but i dont feel like i have much there and he did make a good comment on Bob's read of Brian pg 8. I'm probably off

Bob saying the first wagon is morel ikely to land on town doesnt make any sense when Brian hadn't said anything that feels functionally equivalent to picking a name at random. First *serious* wagon would make more sense than *first wagon who happens to get multiple votes*.

Cephrir and Norwe mention Bobs 'moonlogic' is towny, bob usually gives the appearance of being moon logicky IMO and that didnt seem out of the usual.

NSG calling the thread almost entirely void of content beyond personality reads is a hell of a mood. I think she approaches D1 a lot the same way I do. I wouldnt go so far as to say i expect the game to be painful though. I'm really curious what "too informed to speculate" means.

232 by Elpis - Exactly, it's an RVS wagon, it is equal to random the guy had 1 post at the time

NSG is genuinely somewhat suspicious although I get where she's coming from as town with regards to the game being unapproachable. I feel like she might be taking it too far though

246 by Norwe - Because StD voted Elpis? I'm waiting to hear the reasoning for that because it was right after my townread formed

NSG meant uninformed

247 and on by NSG - I agree there isnt much content but you don't have to act like it!! Pretendddd
The bit about "expecting the way she is posting to further her own wagon" feeeeeels genuine enough i knooww that feeling.
NSG, you feel too hopeless for page 10. there could so many great things coming that couldnt be predicted

She continues to say she hasnt had a single opinion worth remembering Oof.

Ultimately thats probably townish


267 by norwe thru 270 by FB - Dragons can look really towny. But i guess i concur that it's usually later not like up front


277 by bob / 278 by FB - Bob is mostly pointing things out

297, marquis - I dont think there's been an overwhelming amount of noise. This is like, maybe a bit above average.

FB getting annoyed with NSG getting annoyed felt towny (page 13)

330 - Torn between NSG leaning into the antitown angle because FB literally laid it out there for her because she's being indignant town about it -- oorrrr, its also possible NSG just doesnt really get into the game at all as scum, sure.

FB's freakout on BPP getting run up mmmmmm Fire's trying this game now. I think he's moderately towny

349 by bob - That is... a fairly observant post, actually. About why would NSG want BPP quickhammered if she has no reads on anyone as far as he can tell

353 by NSG - Not sure if town NSG feels trolled by the game, tone-wise it feels somewhat genuine. But Fire makes a good point and its what i was just saying that it's like, weirdly early to feel this hopeless about a game! It always, ALWAYS heats up and it's weird NSG leans into the antitown angle so hard.

I'm inclined to believe NM saying NSG wouldnt be using the "i hate this game" angle as scum. But I can see logically why FB cannot see why NSG give s up on the game that early.

380 and on by BPP -- Ohhhh so this is what BPP was freaking out about? Well to be fair, you did almost kill him/me. Plus, thread apathy was being discussed although im not sure i would apply it to much of anyone besides NSG

I don't know Brian well enough to read into the "I would lol if NM lolhammers this" after he places Ballpoint on X-2 for NSG X-1.

395 by Brian - You're the one who voted him to X-2 in the first place! But yes you did unvote. I think Ceph and Brian are being way unreasonable about BPP's reaction here. BPP got a little ranty and vague in his complaints but it was totally justified to be like "Wtf brian" at least a little bit EVEN IF you unvoted

I like Elpis's response

Ethel just seems like they're having trouble getting into the game which is expected enough if they have 2 games of experience

I agree with Norwe that NSG is harder to read this way (Even she recognizes she'll get heat) but i kiind of lean the town option

Std calling Elpis mafia that looks like they're fitting in saying that's where his guts at and thats it.... I guess that's kind of towny justification lol

StD unvoting after Elpis responds also, mm

I kind of like the way Cephrir is interacting with NSG on 19 it seems coming from a real place

492 by Ethel - I actually really like this kind of thinking. NSG is engaging too much with the game for someone who would not like playing as scum -- i.e., i think she's engaging a lot because she knows she's right. That was actually super insightful

496 by FB - Norwe feels sliiiightly lacking, like there's something just a bit off this game. I expected, a liiiittle bit more gameplay and less joke. Maybe. I guess he has the strong read of finding NSG being purposefully NAI scummy, which is fair enough although i think i disagree

500 by Norwe the second time norwe comments on the game being stagnant But NORWeeeee what are you doing about that.
I genuinely think 502 by Norwe was kind of towny

508 by Gimli - I was thinking that with regards to Marquis and I think FB's later posts on NSG were espeically real looking

Agree with everything Gimli said (FB/Elpis/Marquis town) except calling the Andante/Bob wagon ass. There is no such thing as an ass bob wagon. You have to enter the realm of moon logic in order to approach bob, and once you've done that you can't even really go back. There are no concepts such as slam dunk wagons versus ass ones in the moon logic realm

519 by Andante - How is Cephrir calling NSG hating the game scummy an odd take, when we're talking about someone who doesnt like scum
520 Totally missing what andante is talking about here

523 - I'm not sure what Andante is wsaying here.

I cannot tell what Andante is saying. That Ethel post was a banger. And their argument with Ceph/STD doesnt make any sense

563 - Voting NM to generate pressure to get him to talk.. haha

565 by Brian - That was pretty observant. I think it's another indicator of Elpis being town, though. When you assume all the "obviously towny" players are town and the majority consensus suspicions are the most likely targets, i tend to fall into that thinking a lot more as tow

Gimli's town probably, a good balance of good takes and some not just quite right. At least with regards to the BPP bob thing

586 by NM - Why does NM bother to point that out at all as scum? I read it as slightly towny because he didn't need to give that bit of insight into NSG. Maybe an easy fake meta read / TMI Sure. I'm terrible at reading the cow

629 - I agree NM is making a lotta sense

673 - I dont like ethel placing me to X-2 at a joke at this point

FB's reaction to STD voting Ethel i think is particualrly towny pg 28

697 - This is the crutch of what i dont get about Ceph's read on BPP -- i dont see how BPP's anger strongly implies scum. At best i think its lightly towny but i could see it being sort of awkward. But now that I have proper context it felt totally justified to me (with regards to the X-1, not the "Why am i not being heard??" bit which came out of left field)

716 by Marquis - i agree i think std and fire and gimli are acting in good faith at least

740/741 by Ceph - I think you have a valid reason to suspect Ethel i'd ALMOSt go so far as to say that Ethel's behavior is suspicious.

I think Ether feeling the need to give reasons to why they make each vote when they believe that D1 is random is a bit odd
I might go as far as 492 might be TMI on NSG!town while also wanting to keep the NSG suspicion going. Ethel isn't explicitly calling NSG town (she confirms this in 749) although that post was a SUPER banger reason for NSG being town actually. Or maybe it just spurred me into thinking up some fictional reason that i've convinced came from ether, but still.

Meh I'm not really sure about that though. Ether clearly doesn't know what to do with their vote. It could be for innocent reasons too

page 32 cephrir you are COMICALLY convinced it's me (but we went over that)

812 by Cephrir - Most wouldn't say that about my scum game. In fact I'm not even sure if that applies to me at all. I eat elimination for breakfast

819 by Brian - I'm not convinced it wasnt Andante

Spoiler: verdict

Let me start to put this together

strong town

Marquis


Elpis


Firebringer

probably town

northsidegal

leaning town but i think that this has a wolf at least

Gimli(GuyInFreezer)
Brian Skies
Cephrir

Light town meaning i dont townread as hard as the above tier but simultaneously am less paranoid of these slots

Ethel
Save The Dragons

Unsure

NorwegianboyEE
Andante(bob3141)
Not_Mafia(Alisae) *


Oh god. We're nowhere!!!

Boom baaaby

This is very pretty and definitely makes me want to vote you a lot less. That doesn't make it non-zero, but I'm impressed and I don't really think a scum slot would townread literally everyone while they're one of the biggest wagons. That'd be maybe bad I think?

[Elpis]

oh sorry also UNVOTE:

[NorwegianboyEE]

You commited an cardinal sin of quoting a huge post.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I’m not sure about this game so i’m keeping my vote on Ethel for making scummy poems. MT doesn’t seem like the slam dunk scum Cephrir was portraying either.

[Gimli]

I love so much when people townread me

its probably an illness

[Cephrir]

I'll get you one day tweetie

You may have efforted hard enough to get the rest to move

But one day

[Gimli]

ceph full townie with this kind of posting to MT and whatnot

I get she might be scum we'll get her later

I do feel like ethel is more likely atm. I'll make a game advancing move in a bit.