Mini Normal 2296: Pictures of my cat, sometimes | GAME OVER

[Tchill13]

If we keep going with like half the player base not trying to solve or giving thoughts then town could snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

Seems like I lose more than I win when scum is yeeted day 1. Very annoying.

Sounds like you're scum too often, then. :þ

sounds like id be terrible town or terrible scum either way lol.

[Doctor Drew]

I'm OK with Mala, dess, kop... Maybe drew....mayyybe bristep being scum. Personally I think the whole group is in that list. If I'm wrong about anyone it's redff but I don't think so.

You think Red could be scum?

Also, kinda feel that Mala would be more engaged as scum. Kind of seems to not fully to be paying attention, feel like scum would be more cognisant of that.

More so I think im not perfect and assuming that im wrong somewhere and I feel I'd be most wrong with redff.

Anything about Red that jumps out to you? Personally I have them up there with T3(obvs) and DV as solid town reads(maybe Miti as well).

[Tchill13]

the early push on me. I still TR red dont get me wrong but the basis of the Tr (gut read as sincere town chasing the wrong rabbit when redff was pushing me) is much weaker than my Tr of miti.

I find it absurd that DV is higher than miti on your list though. I think my case for a town miti is the strongest argument in the game since this game started.

[Doctor Drew]

the early push on me. I still TR red dont get me wrong but the basis of the Tr (gut read as sincere town chasing the wrong rabbit when redff was pushing me) is much weaker than my Tr of miti.

I find it absurd that DV is higher than miti on your list though. I think my case for a town miti is the strongest argument in the game since this game started.

It bothers me that you are so certain that Miti is town. Wasn't getting real scum pings from you until this post.

[DeasVail]

Mala and Tchill were very town on the Enchant wagon. They were the ones who made it a viable elimination when I was actually the number 2 choice after T3, there's no reason to do that as mafia.

Why Mala, and not Kop?

[DeasVail]

Eh I think I want to vote Dessew, the latest post has a lot of focus on what about them “looks bad” and what doesn’t, which I think is more likely a priority for scum, but I’m also trying to work out the viability of Mala and Dessew being scum together

[Doctor Drew]

Eh I think I want to vote Dessew, the latest post has a lot of focus on what about them “looks bad” and what doesn’t, which I think is more likely a priority for scum, but I’m also trying to work out the viability of Mala and Dessew being scum together

Talk to me about Mala, I actually feel town about them. This is a bit of recency bias, and how I said I feel like they would be more invested as scum, or a least paying more attention.

[Tchill13]

I'm not as happy with an Enchant elimination

as with a Dessew one, because to me Enchant looks like a shitposter in the style of Not_Mafia, so their posts look NAI to me. Either way, Enchant, someone claimed intent to hammer, you should probably claim now.

Not a fan of directing T3. Either he dies and then we learn stuff, or he survives the night and we see what he says tomorrow. Directing him will almost definitely lead us to some ambiguous situation, where we learn less, e.g. only one person dies, and we can't be sure what happened.

p-edit: Well, never mind, that works too.

What I'm interested in is the fact that Enchant moved onto me, after T3's claim.

A Dessew vote would have been far more viable, as it had reached L-2 before people switched to T3

. So, why did Enchant not move there but decided to join Dessew and vote for me, instead?

VOTE: Dessew

The underlined is why im pretty positive mitillos is town.

[Tchill13]

its a great point about the enchant vote. It's also why im voting Dessew.

[DeasVail]

Eh I think I want to vote Dessew, the latest post has a lot of focus on what about them “looks bad” and what doesn’t, which I think is more likely a priority for scum, but I’m also trying to work out the viability of Mala and Dessew being scum together

Talk to me about Mala, I actually feel town about them. This is a bit of recency bias, and how I said I feel like they would be more invested as scum, or a least paying more attention.

Oh I’ve seen games where Mala has been scum and played exactly like this. Which is why I don’t think their lack of investment is town-indicative

[DeasVail]

Mala has promised to be obvtown and I’ll hold them to that promise

[DeasVail]

viewtopic.php?t=89933

My most recent experience with Mala-scum

[Doctor Drew]

Eh I think I want to vote Dessew, the latest post has a lot of focus on what about them “looks bad” and what doesn’t, which I think is more likely a priority for scum, but I’m also trying to work out the viability of Mala and Dessew being scum together

Talk to me about Mala, I actually feel town about them. This is a bit of recency bias, and how I said I feel like they would be more invested as scum, or a least paying more attention.

Oh I’ve seen games where Mala has been scum and played exactly like this. Which is why I don’t think their lack of investment is town-indicative

Mala has promised to be obvtown and I’ll hold them to that promise

What is this progression?

[DeasVail]

That is me not believing that it’s going to happen

What did you think that progression was?

[DeasVail]

Also why is your townread on Mala “recency bias”? What have they done recently?

[Doctor Drew]

That is me not believing that it’s going to happen

What did you think that progression was?

Initial read of that was you willing them to be more town.

And by 'recency bias', I just feel their posts today wouldn't come from scum.

[bristep123]

viewtopic.php?t=89933

My most recent experience with Mala-scum

Definite similarities between the two games going by their ISO, would need to look at game where they were town as well though to see if there is a clear difference.

I’m still on Dess, the behaviour towards Enchant’s slot and vice versa on d1 is the strongest indication I have.

[DeasVail]

I just feel their posts today wouldn't come from scum.

Can you expand on this? I’m not convinced that your townread on Mala is real

[T3]

Mala has promised to be obvtown and I’ll hold them to that promise

What if we wagon Mala to see how she reacts to the pressure?
VOTE: Mala

[Thestatusquo]

Dear players I will be out of town this weekend. I'm still going to be checking in but won't be as present and able to answer questions as normal.

[Doctor Drew]

I just feel their posts today wouldn't come from scum.

Can you expand on this? I’m not convinced that your townread on Mala is real

I should have said more null then town, but their lack of engagement and not seeing T3 changed their claim about N1, especially in a mini game, doesn't seem like a sound scum strategy.

I will say that I don't like their 'don't elim me, I will obv town tomorrow' post they recently made.

I wouldn't fight her elim, just don't fully get the case.

[Dessew]

Mala and Tchill were very town on the Enchant wagon. They were the ones who made it a viable elimination when I was actually the number 2 choice after T3, there's no reason to do that as mafia.

Why Mala, and not Kop?

It's a bit embarrassing, I forgot about Kop, sorry ':D

Btw, how's the site meta for self-hammers? My knee-jerk reaction would be that eliminating mafia earns you townie points by default, so mafia wants to be on the wagon unless they have a good reason not to. Therefore the self-hammer means the wagon already had all available mafia by the end of the day. Now, this shouldn't clear me or Mitillos because he had an immovable vote on me, and Enchant was one of my strongest townreads. But we should all agree that DV and bristep are town. Let me know if there's some specific site meta why this reasoning might not work.

Having thought a bit more about Mala, I think part of my read on her is due to me taking some of her expressions of confusion, which I see as genuine. My read on College/Enchant had similar foundations, and look how that ended up. Nonetheless, I'm still inclined to see Mala as more town than scum, the evolution of the wagon is still enough to keep her as lean-town (for me).

I'm not as happy with an Enchant elimination

as with a Dessew one, because to me Enchant looks like a shitposter in the style of Not_Mafia, so their posts look NAI to me. Either way, Enchant, someone claimed intent to hammer, you should probably claim now.

Not a fan of directing T3. Either he dies and then we learn stuff, or he survives the night and we see what he says tomorrow. Directing him will almost definitely lead us to some ambiguous situation, where we learn less, e.g. only one person dies, and we can't be sure what happened.

p-edit: Well, never mind, that works too.

What I'm interested in is the fact that Enchant moved onto me, after T3's claim.

A Dessew vote would have been far more viable, as it had reached L-2 before people switched to T3

. So, why did Enchant not move there but decided to join Dessew and vote for me, instead?

VOTE: Dessew

The underlined is why im pretty positive mitillos is town.

Thank you! Regarding the first one, I think I addressed this in my previous post. The argument has two parts. Firstly, Enchant didn't vote me, even though I was the other viable wagon at the time, this indicates that I'm mafia. If that were it all, I couldn't argue with it because it makes perfect sense. However, Enchant didn't just not vote me, they also voted someone else, which is the exact thing that gives the vote any significance. Enchant voted Mitillos, a completely non-viable wagon because by that point there had been one single player willing to eliminate Mitillos, namely me, the supposed scumbuddy. Meanwhile redFF was still pushing the T3 wagon because they didn't like the novice claim. There's a disconnect here: why vote Mitillos if I were on the same team as Enchant?

If anything, Mitillos' post reads as mafia to me. It's right there in his own post that Enchant voted for him, but he refuses to address this point. His posts are full of this intellectual dishonesty, and I think it's a scumtell for him. I mean, he's not an idiot, he's actually a fairly intelligent guy as far as I remember.

Just to make it extra clear: the issue isn't just that he doesn't bring up that Enchant voted specifically him. In fact, it's the opposite: he explicitly (and correctly) says that Enchant voted him, but he refuses to address this matter even though it's not trivial, and as far as I know Mitillos, he must know this. The issue isn't that he's scrumreading me for Enchant's vote. I'm sure you could argue about it either way. The issue is that he doesn't argue for why Enchant voting specifically for him indicates that's I'm mafia.

Tchill, you'll have to explain the second one to me in a bit more detail because I don't get, and it's seems I'm not the only one. The only thing it seems to confirm is that Mitillos' absence from the Enchant wagon shouldn't be taken as town (see above). I guess that makes it technically a weak scumtell in context, but even on its own I'd say it's null.

[DeasVail]

Regarding self-hammers, someone can correct me if I’m wrong but I believe Enchant as a player has a reputation for always hammering, even on himself

[Kop]

I'm fairly comfortable with kop, Tchill, Mitillos, T3 and redFF all being town.

Doctor Drew also seems to me possibly less likely to be scum? Staying on the Enchant wagon from Kawaii's vote whilst not actually saying anything about Enchant feels like a missed opportunity, and I feel that scum would be more likely to feel self-conscious about an unexplained vote on a buddy. More likely from someone that just... didn't know that Enchant was scum.

Mala, Dessew and Bristep all feel quite possible to me, and Mala's vote on Enchant feels like the most likely to be a bus vote from scum trying to be on the wagon.

Also Mala not realising that T3 could shoot N1 could possibly explain why scum chose to not kill T3, who would inevitably be confirmed as town after their shot? Is it bad of me to be thinking like that?

VOTE: Malakittens

I can see your point in regards to not realising that T3 could shoot N1 but it would mean that the other scum didn't realise it either.

Do you think that the other scum also not realised this either?

If scum kill N1 or N2 it doesn’t actually change the number of shots that I get off.

I can agree with your point, but a vig is almost as dangerous to scum as a cop is. Whilst the law of averages, vigs hit more town than scum in the early part of the game where the pool is bigger, they still have that chance that the vig shoots one of them, especially if they don't have any roles that prevent the vig shot.

[Tchill13]

@dessew the point is enchant restarting a push on you that had already had momentum would have been easier than voting militos and getting that through. The only reason that wouldnt be seen viable in enchants eyes is because you are enchants scum mate.