Open 875 - The Kindgom of Zeal: The Queens Chosen - GAME OVER

[Lady Lambdadelta]

No.

Ranger is IC right now, yes. That does not mean she is infallible.

We should vote correctly today, whether Ranger agrees or doesn't. Her being confirmed makes her an incredibly valuable touchstone as a known good-faith source, and lowers the pool of elimination candidates increasing our odds of getting it right... but she is NOT an absolute authority that must be sheeped at all costs.

And as Town, you really shouldn't be advocating we follow her to your own death if she suggests it, seeing as we're in ELo and all...

Town needs to vote united in ELO and MELO.

That means Confirmed townies have precedence and control.

You're welcome to influence the confirmed townie's viewpoint but

Attempts at subverting their control (which this is, ftr) are anti-town. Only scum should want town to vote in a divided fashion.

Whatever Ranger votes, I will vote. If she seeks my council, I'll give it. If she wants to vote me, there's not much to do be done about it.

Any other stance is STRICTLY WRONG.

Influence and sway and say all you want but at the end of the day when Ranger votes, if you are town, you vote along side her.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

That is the LITERAL rule.

Going against a confirmed townie's vote plan in ELO or MELO as a townie is game throwing. Because you know they are town and by voting somewhre else you are giving scum a crack in.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

This isn't a judgement of your play, ftr. When I say gamethrowing I mean, mechanically speaking, townies who know someone else is town need to end on the same wagon at the end of the day with them in ELO without fail.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

the end point, the simple statement is this

if you're town in ELO/MELO and there is a confirmed townie present, unless it's 3P and you know who scum is 100% as a result it is STRICTLY WRONG to place a vote before the confirmed townie does and strictly game throwing to not vote with them.

So please do take the time to convince Ranger of anything you feel you need to.

But in the end, today, all townies vote united under Ranger's banner. That's it.

[Radical Rat]

Yeah, I'm not going to vote a townread and lose the game just because an IC says so. And I DEFINITELY won't be voting for myself.

It's true we need to vote unanimously to eliminate scum, but to that end we should be attempting to reach a conclusion Together, not swearing fealty to Ranger.

If Ranger makes a vote that I think is more likely scum than not? Yeah, I'll vote with her.

If she votes me, I'll do everything I can to change her mind.

If she votes Gimli or StD, I'll hear her arguments, and evaluate them against my own views, and either change my mind or attempt to change hers.

I will Not just roll over and let one player dictate the game.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Yeah, I'm not going to vote a townread and lose the game just because an IC says so. And I DEFINITELY won't be voting for myself.

It's true we need to vote unanimously to eliminate scum, but to that end we should be attempting to reach a conclusion Together, not swearing fealty to Ranger.

If Ranger makes a vote that I think is more likely scum than not? Yeah, I'll vote with her.

If she votes me, I'll do everything I can to change her mind.

If she votes Gimli or StD, I'll hear her arguments, and evaluate them against my own views, and either change my mind or attempt to change hers.

I will Not just roll over and let one player dictate the game.

You're welcome to make arguments, and obviously you won't vote yourself.

But if you're genuinely arguing, as town, that you won't follow the confirmed town's vote, you need to really reconsider.

Because the only alignment that makes this argument is scum. Town should understand why this is wrong.

No one is saying you don't reach a conclusion together but the person who makes that final call is Ranger.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

do you think i envy having to have Ranger be in control of this?

do you think i'm arguing this for my own fucking health?

there's a right way to play this and wrong way to play this as town.

and while certainly you don't have to follow me down the road of "idgaf", if you're town you DO have to vote united and you DO have to follow me down the road of "Ranger's vote is what we follow".

So if you're town here RR, my advice to you is to convince ranger of it. I don't need to know, I don't need to find you.

Ranger has to find you.

[Radical Rat]

As of right now, there are two scum left.

If they take the "Ranger has final say!" approach and sheep her on a Townie, that automatically puts the wagon at E-1. If it is indeed on a Townie, it is my job as Town to make sure that hammer doesn't happen.

Ideally that means convincing Ranger and the other remaining Town the vote is wrong, but if Ranger won't budge I'll settle for a no lim over a mislim. And other Townies should too.

And I'm aware that goes both ways. In which case it's just trusting everyone to make the right call. But it needs to be an active decision, not passively going with whatever someone else says.

[Radical Rat]

do you think i envy having to have Ranger be in control of this?

do you think i'm arguing this for my own fucking health?

there's a right way to play this and wrong way to play this as town.

and while certainly you don't have to follow me down the road of "idgaf", if you're town you DO have to vote united and you DO have to follow me down the road of "Ranger's vote is what we follow".

So if you're town here RR, my advice to you is to convince ranger of it. I don't need to know, I don't need to find you.

Ranger has to find you.

You're right. The purpose of this argument isn't for you to find me. It's to expose how what you profess to be objectively correct play is exactly what scum wants from us.

[LavosCore]

PROD!

KawaiiKame is being prodded and has (expired on 2023-04-06 20:46:56) to post game forwarding content.

[KawaiiKame]

Ranger is conftown since she survived the night kill, I'm with Ranger that scum is highly likely between LLD/RR, I'm inclined to believe RR is scum > LLD is scum, out the gate LLD went against Ranger guns blazing believing Ranger was scum with RR riding coat tails, using other's reads as a jumping off point is nai since it's used as town/scum but since we know Ranger is town this feels like setting up Ranger's miselimination in place of genuine scumhunting as town,

I really think you all should listen to what Radical Rat is saying about Ranger. I would reiterate it but they've already put it as well as it can be put. Nothing about her play today is pro-town.

nothing about it says "scum motivation" either whilst there are other players who play does and we're ignoring them soooooo....

Has Ranger been eliminated yet? Is her claim one of the major reasons she hasn't?

There's your scum motivation

It's important to note RR dissuaded Ranger,

What about the fact that LLD actually moved her vote away from you? Clearly she's willing to go elsewhere and not just blindly tunnel you into oblivion, so your argument that the game can't progress while you're alive just doesn't make sense

This gets town points in my eyes, the Ranger push ends in being neutral

Alright so. I lied, I'm not a Cop, but I had a good reason to.

I didn't know if we had more cops left or not, but I knew scum did know. So I thought an easy way to find out if there were enough Cops in the setup was to see if scum would believe there was another one. So I alluded to checking Ranger/Umlaut hoping scum would kill there and confirm something.

I wanted to keep it at that rather than claim outright, but when Gimli claimed trying to find a Cop to protect, I figured there PROBABLY wasn't another one I was stealing the protection from, which was a huge mistake on my part, but I was afraid that if I didn't fullclaim my fake Cop then, scum would do it instead, and it made more sense to have protection on Town than Scum, even if I wasn't really a Cop.

And I did learn from this actually. Scum did NOT believe my claim, because if they did, either Umlaut or Ranger would be dead. This means there are five Cops, not six, and Umlaut is lying.

VOTE: Umlaut

My actual role is N4 Doctor, pinky promise.

This is what my scumcase on RR predicates on, faking being the cop only to say they're the n4 doc, as town she saves Ranger n4, as scum RR doesn't kill Ranger indicating them as town, it works both ways. I was inclined to believe RR's fake claiming cop gambit, it made sense to me to draw out scum like this/prevent scum claiming cop, catching Umlaut in a lie meaning scum. This might be RR's own psychology though now that Umlaut flipped town, fakeclaim cop as scum to set up a potential push on Umlaut then give the appearance of saving Ranger n4, this is my initial impression of going back so the possibility exists that RR really is the n4 doc and did save Ranger, indicating LLD is scum, I need to read the IS0 again, initial reading is LLD feels genuine in emotion

[Radical Rat]

Have you read today yet Kawaii?

[KawaiiKame]

Have you read today yet Kawaii?

Yes and it's confusing, conflicting

[Radical Rat]

Do you have any specific questions?

[Gimli]

std still hasn't posted any content

kawa's post is ????? but idk if I was expecting much better than that

I just feel like it's not my fault that we're in this mess and I don't have any motivation to sort the slots so I'll just go with whatever ranger thinks in the end

[Save The Dragons]

gonna try to get to this today but i'm probably just going to go with what ranger says

[Save The Dragons]

Peng you have never played with me before and it shows lol.

I always look scummy. If that's your entire reason for wanting to kill me - get a better reason other than "Korina just looks scummy"

this post is really scummy, it's kind of like "I know i'm scum but your reason sucks"

i think korina's reads are a little lackluster, they want to sheep LLD onto now confirmed town ranger and suggests that furtive could be scum as well

[Save The Dragons]

kawaiikame has been pretty unimpressive. i think that's uncharacteristic for them

[Gimli]

im not sure that's ai atm

[Gimli]

korina's posts were super bad yeah

[Save The Dragons]

kawaii's "cephrir must be mafia" could be pretty forced too

[Gimli]

its the only conclusion he could make

[Radical Rat]

Solve is LLD/Kawaii, I'm like 90% sure of it at this point.

The only other maybe possible solve is StD/Kawaii but I really don't think they're scum together here, and LLD has been pushing what to my eyes looks like very scum motivated ideas here.

Ranger brought up the point that if we eliminate in StD/Kawaii we risk hitting an N5 Doc that could save us from ELo, and I do agree with that coming from the perspective of someone with me in the potential scum pool, so I'll abide by it.

And I'm rather tired of waiting around doing nothing so.

VOTE: Lady Lambdadelta

Let's get moving. One way or another.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Solve is LLD/Kawaii, I'm like 90% sure of it at this point.

The only other maybe possible solve is StD/Kawaii but I really don't think they're scum together here, and LLD has been pushing what to my eyes looks like very scum motivated ideas here.

Ranger brought up the point that if we eliminate in StD/Kawaii we risk hitting an N5 Doc that could save us from ELo, and I do agree with that coming from the perspective of someone with me in the potential scum pool, so I'll abide by it.

And I'm rather tired of waiting around doing nothing so.

VOTE: Lady Lambdadelta

Let's get moving. One way or another.

This is a straight up scumclaim, FYI.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Saying "I think it's LLD/Kawaii"

"the only other possible solve is STD/Kawaii"

And then voting me instead of

The person who is in both of those worlds

Is a straight up scumclaim