Mini Normal 2294: Monkey Business (Endgame)

[geraintm]

I'm more confident in flipping gera today because skygazer saved him to hammer mena on d3.

i think i am being painted as scummy because of the way Sky hammered.
But if Sky is my partner, then why didn't they vote Menal here when they had every opportunity to do so and not make me look so bad.
The "evidence" against me is circumstantial at best - why not one player took any opportunity in the early game to check me when this always happens is annoying to say the least.

Vote Count 3.8

Menalque (4): geraintm, Comus, KawaiiKame, Enchant
KawaiiKame (3): Ausuka, Menalque, Gimli
Enchant (1): Skygazer

Not Voting (1): Klick

With 9 alive, it takes 5 votes to eliminate.

Deadline is April 4 at 3:00 PM PST, in (expired on 2023-04-04 18:00:00).

[Gimli]

seems like good evidence that kawa is a townie? which would also make you scum

[geraintm]

seems like good evidence that kawa is a townie? which would also make you scum

why is that evidence that they are town?
i don't know how to argue that i am town when what is being used against me is from other people and i don't know what their reasoning was at the time? i can't magic up something to prove i am town, no more than anyone else can.

[Gimli]

basically both skygazer and klick were fine being offwagon when the concurrent wagons were town!mena and kawa

your argument - that if skygazer was your team mate, she'd hammer menalque over kawa - doesn't really make sense. skygazer hammered mena not when kawa was the counterwagon, but when you were the counterwagon.

[geraintm]

but why would sky hammer to save me when it would implicate the pair of us, and not just sit there and let me go? they could have sacrificed me but instead they made sure that scum lost a player both the next nights?

[Gimli]

she played like potatoes

[Gimli]

I dont think "why would sky implicate herself and her partners as scum" is a decent enough defense when she outed herself last gameday for no reason

[geraintm]

as an aside, is kawaii getting replaced?

[geraintm]

she played like potatoes

doesnt mean i have

[Gimli]

kawa straight up gave up on this game

not sure if i should unclear him for it

[Klick]

You should!

I am legitimately town in this game

[Klick]

I've not felt super motivated to delve into a confbias-laced case on Kawaii being scum
Mostly because from my original unbiased perspective I read Kawaii as hard town

The problem is that Kawaii is a special case where they have relatively little time on the site and so they've got a wider range of like... *ways* of playing
And so any case on their behaviour requires a range of assumptions that you have no reason to accept without already knowing the answer

[Klick]

It feels significantly more effective to talk about this from the perspective that this is my town game in ways that correlate more strongly with town games I've played previously than 'Klick was very right before and was very wrong in this game'

[Klick]

It might help to know that I have a significant amount of precedent for forgetting to submit rather important deadlines for games, both Mafia and not Mafia

In Hollow Knight the main reason I didn't submit my secret public message role the first two nights was because I literally forgot, even though I intended to write a message

In the most recent Survivor game I played, I forgot to vote at the Final 6 AND I forgot to submit for the challenge at Final 5, making people assume I didn't care about the game at all when that was very far from the truth
(I managed to win in the end in spite of this, in a very close vote)

I'm just really really bad at deadlines

[Klick]

The examples don't stop there but I'd have to dig pretty far back
The point is that it's a problem that has a cause and precedent showing said cause

[geraintm]

kawa straight up gave up on this game

not sure if i should unclear him for it

a player flaking, so i am sitting her trying to defend myself and that slot is essentially given a free ride isn't helpful

[Gimli]

It might help to know that I have a significant amount of precedent for forgetting to submit rather important deadlines for games, both Mafia and not Mafia

In Hollow Knight the main reason I didn't submit my secret public message role the first two nights was because I literally forgot, even though I intended to write a message

In the most recent Survivor game I played, I forgot to vote at the Final 6 AND I forgot to submit for the challenge at Final 5, making people assume I didn't care about the game at all when that was very far from the truth
(I managed to win in the end in spite of this, in a very close vote)

I'm just really really bad at deadlines

yeah but this time it was extremely important that you'd submit your action

btw I asked you once this gameday and you didn't reply: why did you visit kawa on n3? walk me through it help me see it make sense

[Klick]

It has been important in other situations as well
In the Survivor game it was the reason I almost lost, people didn't want to vote for me because they thought I didn't care enough
This is something I'm genuinely horrible about

I had vague suspicions of Comus during D3. I wanted to test his role claim because I was skeptical of it. He made a plan that would produce a very specific result. I wanted to produce an unexpected result so that, if he were lying, he would reveal it by claiming that I visited you when I hadn't.

I chose Kawaii specifically because I thought they were unlikely to die and I didn't want to accidentally target the person who would eat the NK because that would not look very good.

[geraintm]

Klick's reasoning and avoidance is as bad as Sky's was. If they had posted this earlier in the game they would have been eliminated for it.
managed to not vote on Day 3
didn't vote for Sky yesterday
was only overlap between the 2 wagons day 1 on Elsa and Save the dragons - both green.

their voting record is re-markedly not red.

[Gimli]

you guys should really keep posting, this is good

anyway im probably gonna try to figure this out once im back from the gym in a little bit

[Gimli]

y'all not even trying lol

I'm still trying to be precise so let's see if the mechanics of this game can help with a decision

KawaiiKame - 2x hider
geraintm - vt
Gimli - vt
Ausuka - loud vis
Klick - compulsive visitor

deads
enchant - shield doc
sky - goon (I almost wrote informed detective lmao)
mena - vt
comus - simple watcher
magical girl - vt
elsa - vt
std - vt
koki - vt

there's two mafia in

KawaiiKame - 2x hider
geraintm - vt
Klick - compulsive visitor

so either 6 vts + visitor, watcher, shield doc and loud vis
vs 2 goon + whatever kawa is

or 7 vts + watcher, shield doc and loud vis
vs 1 goon 1 whatever klick is 1 whatever kawa is

or 6 vts + 2x hider, simple watcher, shield doc and loud vis
vs 1 or 2 goon and whatever klick is

[Gimli]

ausuka would you say that if gera is a vt then town is underpowered in this game? I really don't know the meta to evaluate.

[Klick]

y'all not even trying lol

I post on my lunch break m8
I got off work 10 minutes ago

[Ausuka]

I think a vt is probably better than compulsive visitor in this setup tbh

I think the town!kawaii world is probably the most likely setup wise, although the scum roles are obviously still ???

[Ausuka]

I have done some reading and I'm not sure if i have actually gotten anywhere tbh

I'm not going to pretend I know the entire scumteam on day 2

I'm not saying you should, I'm not even expecting you to, but having only one scumread out of at least 2 feels weird to me, especially when that one scumread is Comus who I townread
Feels you scumread Elsa now too but that can be in my own mind

I mean I have ppl I suspect more or less but I'm not going to call people a scumread if they're not in that mental category

I am leaning scum on elsa at this point yeah

Why do you scum lean Elsa at this point?
Me I'm realizing an epiphany- Comus might be right in Elsa being scum, i've spent so long defending her on the basis of claims, she feels town now tho, but she felt scum b4

In hindsight this feels bad and I'm not really a fan of his treatment of me although i admit to being biased on that?

I think there is some level of towniness in his iso tho in like, the way he seems to speak his mind without really filtering the thoughts for what looks good?