In post 66, SeeEmpty wrote:
@Delta, your initial intention of voting on Mafia make sense to me from the point of forming pressure and trying to generate a discussion. However, your current vote on Jason sounds to me like you're just dissatisfied with him calling what you did not very helpful and doesn't look town, to the point that you're fine with his lim today. Am I understanding the reason of your vote correctly?
*Snip*
Here is SeeEmpty's first main post, i have removed the E-2 discussion from it.
This is just a bad way to get info, as you are in your own post making a strawman for exactly what you think and then asking if the strawman is real, that's not actually getting information on intention, this is saying what you think the intention is.
In post 86, SeeEmpty wrote:
@Jason - Why do you think MafiaSSK is the most town person in your list?
@T3 - I'm interested to your thoughts on the current stage of the game. What's your opinion on Jason vs Delta? Why do you think Delta is town?
@Merlyn - Any reason you're not voting anyone now?
This is part of a reads post, but this is his questions for the town, but these also aren't great as scumhunting, for someone looking for intentions, these really don't strike me as useful questions (like seriously explain your reads at post 86 is a bit of a weird one), and honestly reading the content again, a lot of it has this filler vibe of trying to look like he is doing stuff, while not doing a whole lot of work.
In post 102, SeeEmpty wrote:
In post 101, T3 wrote:
I think Delta is town and Jason is scum. Scum want to win arguments, town want to find scum. I liked to way that Delta backed down in MafiaSSK. Jason is mischaracterizing Delta’s points and latching on to semantics. It doesn’t seem like Jason is truly trying to understand Delta’s mindset. Rather, Jason is attacking Delta because Delta doesn’t fully conform to the way that he believes town plays.
And you're not backing that up with a vote because?
And then there is this type of post, and his general thing of just harping on not voting immediately, this makes you look active, without having to actually have anything useful to say.
In post 103, SeeEmpty wrote:
@Delta - Other than Jason, what is your view on the rest of the players? Would like to hear your thoughts, since most of your posts are on practically the same subject matter.
Again asking for full read lists, this is weird to do so early, your not going to have anything super useful on every player this early, especially since at the time some people had barely posted (and 2 slots had just been replaced) which is why this reads as doing things for the sake of doing things, attempting to scumhunt without actually doing any scumhunting.
In post 137, SeeEmpty wrote:
In post 109, MafiaSSK wrote:
well i mean sure, why wouldn't i be concerned about the votes on me? Especially when it wasn't for town-aligned reasoning? also what does "too concerned" mean here? what don't you like about me often agreeing with jason?
It was in early game and 2 of the 3 votes were random. A vote early in game and be to create pressure and generate content, which is not indicative of anti-town. Instead of focusing on finding out more about others, you just pile on the same case by Jason and not providing anything more, or attempt to get more info from the rest of the player base. That doesn't feel right to me.
"Too concern" as in asking for others to take off their votes. As I said, I don't think quickhammer should ever be a concern so early in game, and effort should be to find out more about the players.
Also, not sure if you are friend with Jason out of game or something, but your post
31,
108 and
114 feels different from how you respond to others. May I know why?
Hell this is what was directed at the SSK/Alianna slot, this is not scumhunting, because simply put, if you had read the thread, we were agreeing with each other pretty consistently, so if your looking for intent, it was actually already there, questioning it seems odd, because there was no need for the question.
And all the wording of these posts sounds like someone building their strawman and going, are you doing exactly this?
In post 162, SeeEmpty wrote:
In post 141, Kowahbunga wrote:I don't consider D1 nearly as important as everyone likes to pretend and I'm not afraid to say it. People love to mention "oh we can see this or that and wagons and blah blah blah" then all of it's for nothing because by the end of the game no one even looks at it again. I like to get my sights set on someone and focus in on them on D1. I hunt for one scum and find it. From there, I begin using information that actually exists... Like the final wagon of each day, the night kill. I consider each game like an omelet, and you can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs. I believe playing D1 like you're going to find all the scum and it's just going to be scum lim after scum lim until game is over is a ridiculous concept to chase. But people love to pretend that is how it'll play out.
I'm not going to bother wasting my effort getting a read on everyone D1. I'll do my part in 1 or 2 people and let others interaction with others be the information I use in D2 and later if I'm around.
This is terrible if it is coming from town, and it is getting on my nerves a little. All I see is:
"y'all are not going to get much from me now because that's how I play",
"you guys go ahead, while I sit back and observe so that I can do more later",
"somebody is bound to be mislimmed, stop dreaming about D2 win, and the content is going to be here anyway, so what's the point of forming/sharing any thoughts now".
If everyone just goes "Yeah my guts say he's scum", where are we getting content for D2 analysis? Sharing reads helps other to pay attention to things that they might have missed. Why is that more important in D2 than in D1?
Also as a note as we go, you'll note the massive jumps in post numbers between these posts, because it really is a lot of nothing posts directed at one person at a time to seem like there is action, but if you read the actual questions, there is nothing here, like what even can i analyze in this post, this is just a question of why Kowah plays how he plays.
Also going to skip most of #177, because it continues this conversation with Kowah that basically goes into optimal play, which is just a weird thing to discuss if your trying to find scum.
In post 177, SeeEmpty wrote:
I'm getting more and more uncomfortable and dissatisfied of his point of view, but for now I'm not sure if it is just bad play or scum play just yet.
And wow, for someone asking for reads lists from everyone, this is a nothing burger isn't it, reminder he was asking for full reads list 80 posts before now, and this is his read on a single slot.
In post 206, SeeEmpty wrote:
In post 180, JasonWazza wrote:
As a note, this whole discussion on optimal play is pointless, Mafia on other sites is a very puzzle based game more then a game of deduction, that's just how it goes, and no liming is a standard practice (put into context, we have a 6/9 chance that at least one person is a Friendly neighbor, Cop, or Tracker, outting them is bad, no liming allows us to have info around to work with, at the cost of more then likely 1 VT), i agree this is optimal, i don't think it's fun, hence i stopped playing those sites, and honestly was the reason i dropped Mafia as a whole.
Focusing on this point is useless, as we are not discussing anything that is alignment indicative, it's opinion on what we should have done.
The discussion is not about finding out what optimal play is. It was me trying to understand where Kowah is coming from. I don't need to know what everyone's view on what the "optimal play" should be, but I want to know why he thinks what he did is good for us.
You have the tendency of deciding what is not a good discussion and they should stop, based on your impression that they are "just opinions" and "not alignment indicative" and just "bad town". At this stage, everything can be argued with: "I don't agree. Because that's just your opinion". Don't you agree that finding out how someone thinks (their opinion) is going to be helpful, if nothing else, help you set up a baseline of how that person is playing the game, and you'd have more things to look at in the future?
Then there is this post, this feels like someone got called out for discussing something that was useless, and got a little too defensive on this fact.
Because here is the fact, if you want to understand Kowah on a personal level as to every idea of what he thinks we should do in a game of Mafia, do it after the game, right now all you need to know is that is his opinion, this isn't a scumhunting method, this is a method to look active while doing nothing.
In post 209, SeeEmpty wrote:
In post 175, JasonWazza wrote:
Yeah not like i even told you to unvote and vote someone else so we can get content earlier is it?
In post 183, JasonWazza wrote:
I mean, this town has been focused on opinion based stuff the whole game, no one is actually generating useful content, honestly think we have a town full of bad town and scum capitalizing.
"You guys should vote someone else so that we can get content"
"Y'all suck for not generating content"
"Imma go back to my old vote"
On one hand, you're dissatisfied with the lack of useful content, and on the other hand, you're okay with going back to your earlier vote without any additional content. Really?
@bewolkt - In the group of Jason, Delta, Mafia, Kowah, if you have to pick the scummiest one, who would that be and why?
For someone making basically no useful content, me going back to a vote that i had already justified is bad? interesting take on it i guess.
Also this question to Bewolkt is so weird, like this doesn't actually generate usable info because it's such a dumb question "if you had to pick only from half the game who is scum, who would it be" like this isn't a useful line of questioning, how does this help you find who is scum?
In post 227, SeeEmpty wrote:
In post 221, JasonWazza wrote:
You don't magically make those numbers actually go up with the way you are playing, the only reason your lim is useful, is everyone has at least commented on our back and forth to at least get information of your flip.
What information would we gain if Delta flips town/scum?
By your definition, would you say we would be also getting the same amount of information if we flip you instead?
And again given his sparse posting on topics, these questions we get are really weird, this isn't scumhunting, this is trying to active post without being an actually active scumhunter.
I'm actually going to stop making this case here, as i'm a bit short on time right now and also because this shows a lot of what my issue is, there isn't any scumhunting (it's inactive posting that is posing as scumhunting) and also weirdly defensive posts over the weirdest of things.
