Amnesiac Mafia: The Movie! That's a Wrap!

[Pink Ball]

y'all just don't want the smoke and hassle of arguing with me on day 1

/in

[kuribo]

I do have at least one super secret scum read that I'm not willing to jump into on day one anyway just because holy shit it's not worth the hassle of trying to make fetch happen this early. Some people are just hard / annoying to elim, esp on day 1, so I get it. Esp since I recognize that people see me the same way.

Buuuuut if you think I'm talking about you, then I very well might be and you should just NK me tonight

[kuribo]

y'all just don't want the smoke and hassle of arguing with me on day 1

/in

been there, done that, you held up good even though I was right and you weren't town lol

[Pink Ball]

To be fair, I was trying to be scummier than I usually am to avoid getting night killed in that game

[Black]

This game is weird, Mala and I both feel there's this bizarre vibe in this game where it seems like people are sidestepping me like some of y'all just don't want the smoke and hassle of arguing with me on day 1. This isn't necessarily directed at anyone in particular, more of a "general feel" of the game.

Are you someone the wolves should be afraid of?

I'll ISO you here in a little and engage with you

[Black]

When I think of kuribo I can't think of a single post but that's a me problem

[kuribo]

To be fair, I was trying to be scummier than I usually am to avoid getting night killed in that game

I mean, I was right for the wrong reasons anyway.

Thought exercise. Pretend I'm handing you a gun. You can use it right now. Who do you shoot?

[Frozen Angel]

oo I forgot to respond to 516

So why did you not like him stating he hated not ranging mafia if you think it's truthful?

Firebringer is known for his trolling. When I saw that, my thought was pretty much "Ugh, is he actually scum and trolling us right now?" I did not actually know he liked playing as scum, only that he was capable of being bold when he was.

I did go back for another look, and on second reading it does not seem like taunting the town. Saying he did not get the role he wanted was more an offhand remark while talking about his role play, and he did not come out and say he was unhappy about not being scum until Dunnstral confronted him about it.

Do you usually mech spec and try to break setups right at start of games?

Just to be clear, you're asking me to provide meta on myself? One of the first lessons I learned on this site is that self-meta is fraught with peril. I have never lied about it, but have still gotten in trouble for it, because meta is often a matter of opinion and subjective.

With that out of the way, the short answer is I don't know. I have done something like that before, maybe at the start or later in game, but I don't remember all my games and I can't say how common it is. I also don't think it is worth delving deep into years old meta, so I'm just going to point you to three posts in three games as three alignments which I think are relevant, and give you a little context. Make of that what you will.

Spoiler: Self meta, aka rambling about the good old days

Wizards at the Sorcerers' Den #2515
I was a serial killer with a special win condition. Early in the game I had spoken of the need to organize the town, because I think everyone had damaging abilities, and I expected it to become a town-on-town bloodbath. It got so bad that third parties outnumbered the town. This was the post where I claimed, and offered to remove myself from the game by name-claiming, using a punishing game mechanic to my benefit. Ultimately I lived, because everyone left except the town had achieved their win conditions, and the mod did not want to drag it out.

Mini 1406: Sherlock Mafia #348
I started this by trying to bait people to talk about flavor, hoping to spot townslips. It was a major blunder. Later I figured out that we were actually playing assassin in the palace rather than regular mafia. I was a guard who did not know the identity of the king, and even some guards who were informed had not realized what the setup was. That remained my only achievement in game, though we did win.

Machina Mafia #150
I played this as an alt, and was scum. In this game power roles were divided in two pieces, with sensors and emitters needing receivers to target them. There was discussion about how we should play this, and I participated in that, offering my suggestions and calling out bad logic. I got executed, but ultimately Lady Lambdadelta carried the scum team to victory.

Like I can't be the only one who thinks that doesn't look like a genuine thought process. Why would they start mech specing assuming scum doesn't have fake claim and setup is breakable as town?

You want to know? I'll tell you why.

At Dawn, members of the town will receive their Amnesiac Role. There are a number of roles in rotation that will be randomly distributed each Dawn Phase. That means that even dead players will be assigned Amnesiac Roles at Dawn. (Though they will not be PMed, since they are dead) The Mafia Team will be assigned Amnesiac Roles in the same random manner, though the roles will not be granted to them.

In this game, scum do not have fake claims. They get real roles assigned to them from the same pool as town every morning. It says here that the roles are not granted to them though, and that left it ambiguous in my mind whether they would even be told what they were. I could just about imagine a game where scum would need to keep track of which roles town had claimed during previous days, maybe even making up a fake claim and pretending it had been assigned to a dead player on the days they did not claim it themselves. Getting ahead of that might have been beneficial, but as already stated, it does not work.

1 - so you still don't like it or are natural about it now on second read?

2 - self meta is totally fine. I don't like self meta about I would naturally townread/scumread this slot in such similar circumstances, but self meta about play style and how you dig the game is pretty fine.

why I asked you that question was, its very odd for a town player to start a game assuming

they can break the setup.

This is not really something that a town mind set thinks about in general at the very start of game at all. I do understand in which scenario game would break here and why you though mass claiming does it but why even thinking about breaking game in first place?

so this self meta you provided helps with that concern actually cause it seems you actually go for town slips or way to break things or do heavy mech spec before anything else in games at least sometimes.

but yes again I see how this game would be breakable and having a breakable game is not something I assume town-mindsets normally would think off.

regardless this is actually a very good post by feysal

[Pink Ball]

To be fair, I was trying to be scummier than I usually am to avoid getting night killed in that game

I mean, I was right for the wrong reasons anyway.

Thought exercise. Pretend I'm handing you a gun. You can use it right now. Who do you shoot?

Probably Klick

[Black]

What I mean is, "Pink Ball is not contributing, must be scum" is too superficial coming from a player that I expect more. Do you think the problem here is that my expectations are too high?

Well now that you've put it this way, I think the problem here is your interpretation of my read. Like obviously "Pink ball must be scum" is you paraphrasing me but I'm not convinced on your alignment at all. It's a slight scum lean that will likely correct itself if you start doing some townie stuff moving forward

[Frozen Angel]

how is that a reason for you to scum read me - or to describe it as discredit or something like that? Are you retracting that read of yours?

I don't scumread you, I'd say you're pretty close to null atm

can you write in two sentences why you scum read pink and blue? (color issues aside)

[Black]

I didn't say it directly before, but since we're both here right now: I think the player that is trying to pocket you is Titus.

What? She thinks I'm scum, isn't pocketing someone when you try to buddy them into thinking you're town? I'm not following

[Pink Ball]

What I mean is, "Pink Ball is not contributing, must be scum" is too superficial coming from a player that I expect more. Do you think the problem here is that my expectations are too high?

Well now that you've put it this way, I think the problem here is your interpretation of my read. Like obviously "Pink ball must be scum" is you paraphrasing me but I'm not convinced on your alignment at all. It's a slight scum lean that will likely correct itself if you start doing some townie stuff moving forward

Well this question is towards sorting you even when I said I wouldn’t focus on doing that initially:
Do you think that our interactions are consolidating said scumlean or are you starting to sway out of that read?

[kuribo]

This game is weird, Mala and I both feel there's this bizarre vibe in this game where it seems like people are sidestepping me like some of y'all just don't want the smoke and hassle of arguing with me on day 1. This isn't necessarily directed at anyone in particular, more of a "general feel" of the game.

Are you someone the wolves should be afraid of?

I'll ISO you here in a little and engage with you

Eh, I meant more along the lines of I'm a pain in the ass to argue with and I used to be... ummm, let's say really really toxic. I haven't been elim'd as town in over ten years now, so it's def a pain in the ass for scum to try and push me altogether. I don't play that way anymore, but you know how reputations go.

I did have a streak of a number of games a few years back where I tunneled on scum day one, but I'm also rusty. The last game I played, (the first in over a year, and my first non-hydra game in like, two or three) the one I mentioned to Pink just now, my reads were... I don't wanna say *bad*, but they were just left of center. But I got NK'd anyway, mostly because of the massclaim and the fact that I was a doctor.

[kuribo]

To be fair, I was trying to be scummier than I usually am to avoid getting night killed in that game

I mean, I was right for the wrong reasons anyway.

Thought exercise. Pretend I'm handing you a gun. You can use it right now. Who do you shoot?

Probably Klick

Sell it to me

[Black]

can you write in two sentences why you scum read pink and blue? (color issues aside)

I didn't like how they interacted with the thread this weekend. PB felt like he was posting surface thoughts and ideas to seem present, while Blue felt a little defensive in his exchange with Dunn. There was a post I missed that makes my Blue read a little less substantial though

[Black]

Do you think that our interactions are consolidating said scumlean or are you starting to sway out of that read?

I don't really think it has changed tbh. I can see both wolf and town coming in and immediately responding to the suspicions and criticisms directly involving them. I'm wondering why you only seem to care about how Shea and I feel about you and not about the rest of the game but I don't really think it's AI yet

[Pink Ball]

Do you think that our interactions are consolidating said scumlean or are you starting to sway out of that read?

I don't really think it has changed tbh. I can see both wolf and town coming in and immediately responding to the suspicions and criticisms directly involving them. I'm wondering why you only seem to care about how Shea and I feel about you and not about the rest of the game but I don't really think it's AI yet

Oh don't get me wrong, I don't care how either of you feel about me. It just so happened that both of you were active when I had some spare time

[Thestatusquo]

I don't think Pink is nearly as scummy as he was in the game we played together a few weeks back, which is really saying something because PB was a third party that game and I let the rest of the town talk me out of pushing him day 1.

This game is weird, Mala and I both feel there's this bizarre vibe in this game where it seems like people are sidestepping me like some of y'all just don't want the smoke and hassle of arguing with me on day 1. This isn't necessarily directed at anyone in particular, more of a "general feel" of the game.

In this game, scum do not have fake claims. They get real roles assigned to them from the same pool as town every morning. It says here that the roles are not granted to them though, and that left it ambiguous in my mind whether they would even be told what they were. I could just about imagine a game where scum would need to keep track of which roles town had claimed during previous days, maybe even making up a fake claim and pretending it had been assigned to a dead player on the days they did not claim it themselves. Getting ahead of that might have been beneficial, but as already stated, it does not work.

Right, so one thing to keep in mind is that if you, say, get a neighbor role with someone else and you both actually get the role, then you're essentially masons because you're confirmed town to one another.

I asked you a direct question about dragon that you haven't responded to.

[kuribo]

I don't think Pink is nearly as scummy as he was in the game we played together a few weeks back, which is really saying something because PB was a third party that game and I let the rest of the town talk me out of pushing him day 1.

This game is weird, Mala and I both feel there's this bizarre vibe in this game where it seems like people are sidestepping me like some of y'all just don't want the smoke and hassle of arguing with me on day 1. This isn't necessarily directed at anyone in particular, more of a "general feel" of the game.

In this game, scum do not have fake claims. They get real roles assigned to them from the same pool as town every morning. It says here that the roles are not granted to them though, and that left it ambiguous in my mind whether they would even be told what they were. I could just about imagine a game where scum would need to keep track of which roles town had claimed during previous days, maybe even making up a fake claim and pretending it had been assigned to a dead player on the days they did not claim it themselves. Getting ahead of that might have been beneficial, but as already stated, it does not work.

Right, so one thing to keep in mind is that if you, say, get a neighbor role with someone else and you both actually get the role, then you're essentially masons because you're confirmed town to one another.

I asked you a direct question about dragon that you haven't responded to.

I must have missed it, give me a sec and I'll find it

[Black]

Oh don't get me wrong, I don't care how either of you feel about me.

Can you explain this? I care about how people read me when I'm town

[kuribo]

Ugh god I really don't like dragon's response there

vote: Dragon

Not to reiterate the things that Shea just said, but I do agree with him on this. You never once questioned four people calling you town seemingly with no good reason. And then calling yourself limbait, ehhhhhhh

Just feels like a way to preliminary poo-poo a wagon on you

Read my completed games - I've been called limbait several times on D1, different games.

Other people calling you limbait is not mutually exclusive to you using that as an excuse for your actions / an attempt to minimize any votes against you.

And for that matter, only after being repeatedly called out for it have you finally decided to analyze the people who were calling you town at an extremely early point in the game.

I kinda liked that reaction from dragon tbh. It felt idk pretty genuine to like see my post not as an attack but rather as a suggestion and start down the path of looking through klicks posts.

This? I don't see this as a question at all?

[Thestatusquo]

I don't think Pink is nearly as scummy as he was in the game we played together a few weeks back, which is really saying something because PB was a third party that game and I let the rest of the town talk me out of pushing him day 1.

This game is weird, Mala and I both feel there's this bizarre vibe in this game where it seems like people are sidestepping me like some of y'all just don't want the smoke and hassle of arguing with me on day 1. This isn't necessarily directed at anyone in particular, more of a "general feel" of the game.

In this game, scum do not have fake claims. They get real roles assigned to them from the same pool as town every morning. It says here that the roles are not granted to them though, and that left it ambiguous in my mind whether they would even be told what they were. I could just about imagine a game where scum would need to keep track of which roles town had claimed during previous days, maybe even making up a fake claim and pretending it had been assigned to a dead player on the days they did not claim it themselves. Getting ahead of that might have been beneficial, but as already stated, it does not work.

Right, so one thing to keep in mind is that if you, say, get a neighbor role with someone else and you both actually get the role, then you're essentially masons because you're confirmed town to one another.

I asked you a direct question about dragon that you haven't responded to.

I must have missed it, give me a sec and I'll find it

I mean I also followed up about your post about dragon directly after disagreeing with you and you ignored that too.

To be its weird for you to characterize people as playing around you (and this is now the second time you've done this) when I'm directly trying to engage with you and you keep missing it.

[kuribo]

FAs takes all feel...uh. Bad. Extremely bad.

If someone who is sus of dragoneater could tell me why they think the interaction with me was more likely to come from scum I'd appreciate it. FA and Kuribo both expressed this view I think.

Oh, here it is.

More like to come from scum than town is kind of a loaded way of saying it. I'd say that my gut tells me in this case it's worth pursuing whether it does come from scum or town. It's a jumping off point.

PEdit: I'm not ignoring you, dude, there are a lot of posts, I missed one, relax

[Pink Ball]

Oh don't get me wrong, I don't care how either of you feel about me.

Can you explain this? I care about how people read me when I'm town

As you said, I haven't provided anything to thread yet. Why would I care if people are reading me for my lack of contribution when I know that's going to change in the near future