Amnesiac Mafia: The Movie! That's a Wrap!

[Firebringer]

Here are my most solid positions even though I wouldn't trust myself standing on these:

Dunn is probably my top TR. Originally I was a little skeptical of his entrance but I think his responses to pressure have been really good
Fey was also someone I was unsure about early because the way they danced around the massclaim and the slight overreaction to FB voting for Dunn. However I think Fey vs. FB looks a little TvT looking back over it and I lean town on them
Which means I also lean town on FB
I think Dragon has been pretty townie too. Add my name to the list
I liked FA's entrance and her thoughts felt like they were coming from a genuine solvey place, however I started to doubt that after reading some of what Klick put down about her. Klick has a couple of good points about why he thinks FA is scummy here even if they aren't very strong. Like they seem like things that would make Klick sus of FA but not necessarily things that could get others onboard. FA's whole reaction to the Klick push was to discredit it and then jump on Dragon for following it and I feel like this could be interpreted as her going for an easier target
I lean town with Klick. I think his posting always gives me town vibes though so I'm cautious here
I'm not sure how I feel about Shea or Titus
I need to read over kuribo, GiF, and Drixx because I can't recall anything off the top of my head about these slots
I think Pink Ball and Blue are the two players that are the scummiest to me atm. These are weak reads but I don't like what I've seen from them so far

Part of me feels like this was too strong of positions for Town Black this soon.

[Titus]

Is waffling on reads this early scummy really
Hollow Night Black struggled for so long and was very difficult to pin her down on most reads.

It's not waffling. It's hedging. For instance, Dunn is defensive is not a read. Black gave non descript responses when asked for reads and would let me know when updated when I was kissing ass. I suspect Black knew I had every intention of using her answer against her so she clammed.

[Titus]

Here are my most solid positions even though I wouldn't trust myself standing on these:

Dunn is probably my top TR. Originally I was a little skeptical of his entrance but I think his responses to pressure have been really good
Fey was also someone I was unsure about early because the way they danced around the massclaim and the slight overreaction to FB voting for Dunn. However I think Fey vs. FB looks a little TvT looking back over it and I lean town on them
Which means I also lean town on FB
I think Dragon has been pretty townie too. Add my name to the list
I liked FA's entrance and her thoughts felt like they were coming from a genuine solvey place, however I started to doubt that after reading some of what Klick put down about her. Klick has a couple of good points about why he thinks FA is scummy here even if they aren't very strong. Like they seem like things that would make Klick sus of FA but not necessarily things that could get others onboard. FA's whole reaction to the Klick push was to discredit it and then jump on Dragon for following it and I feel like this could be interpreted as her going for an easier target
I lean town with Klick. I think his posting always gives me town vibes though so I'm cautious here
I'm not sure how I feel about Shea or Titus
I need to read over kuribo, GiF, and Drixx because I can't recall anything off the top of my head about these slots
I think Pink Ball and Blue are the two players that are the scummiest to me atm. These are weak reads but I don't like what I've seen from them so far

Part of me feels like this was too strong of positions for Town Black this soon.

Disagree with the strong positions. Everything is a lean but for Dunn.

[Titus]

If someone has a town meta read on you, it's a compliment and you shouldn't be frustrated. It should be to either work together or sort genuineness.

[Firebringer]

Maybe strong is wrong word. I think the way in which that was formed was too...neat.
I don't think hedging is scummy for Black (or more like fence sitting)
I only have one meta game to compare so this is really unfair to Black.

It seems like Blacks head is all together and just less actual worried. Maybe thats cause she was high during weekend? The way she interacts with players feels too....unconcerned? Sure she is asking questions and looks like she is trying to figure it out but like to me it feels a bit artificial.

[Firebringer]

Having a team behind her giving possible thoughts might make her less worried/concerned day 1 too though.

[Dunnstral]

I liked FA's entrance and her thoughts felt like they were coming from a genuine solvey place, however I started to doubt that after reading some of what Klick put down about her. Klick has a couple of good points about why he thinks FA is scummy here even if they aren't very strong. Like they seem like things that would make Klick sus of FA but not necessarily things that could get others onboard. FA's whole reaction to the Klick push was to discredit it and then jump on Dragon for following it and I feel like this could be interpreted as her going for an easier target

"discredit"

where did I discredit klick's push on me I want you to specifically point out to what you mean when you use that word cause all I did was clarifying to him why what he sees is not scum indicative of me while completely acknowledging what he was seeing without any confrontation

also my vote/scumread on dragon eater is not because of

him agreeing with klick

its because I think he is not, in reality, agreeing with klick, I think he is actually faking reading/following what he wrote about me and just went on sheeping someone who expressed town reading him on their scum read.

why?

truthfully mostly

gut feeling

about how he jumped on that read. but also cause in my head klick made a link between my play here and what he saw before while dragon eater cant make such link in their head like them.

I really think he saw klick posting a meta read and without questioning "is this meta sufficient" or "is this even making sense" sheep it, while klick's doubting himself on forming the meta read before, suggests he is unlike dragon eater and was evaluating that link.

hence I think dragon eater is an opportunistic scum who is using the tr that was expressed on them to steer behind klick on this linked read

I think that this is a plausible theory, but is there any supporting evidence? Why do you think this?

LLD thinks that this FA post looks defensive and stilted, like FA is trying to get out from under something instead of arguing something she believes in. And FA fits in as the lurk mafia LLD was looking for.

I (Dunn) am in agreement after having the above framed to me like so, because I am not seeing why FA is thinking this way about Dragoneater so it looks like sowing doubt and trying to deflect. "Getting out from under something" is a good phrase that I'll use again here.

VOTE: Frozen Angel

LLD thinks that Titus might be voting FA thinking that FA can save themself so that Titus can swap their vote later, or worst case get bus cred. Because Titus' vote on FA feels like Titus got there with zero reasoning and is dissonant from their prior take. Giving up on Black and saying "meh" doesn't make sense.

If Titus wants to bus, we should let her bus and then dunk on her tomorrow.

I'm (Dunn) going to add that it is not clear why Titus decided to vote for FA over other options, which I feels lends merit to this being a bus that Titus is not expecting to take off.

[Firebringer]

I am like a waffle machine right now.

[Firebringer]

Dunn, did LLD tell you that this is the right time to buss?

[Black]

@Titus

Re: static hedges that do nothing - I disagree. They did stuff for me regardless of how they impacted you

Re: semantic fight over aggression - it wasn't semantics. I wanted Fey to comment on Dunn's attitude because I thought it was interesting that she shaded Dragon for being aggressive without mentioning Dunn's aggression

Re: organic resolution - what do you consider inorganic about the resolutions here?

Re: massclaim - I didn't want it and I expressed in my post about it that it's something that would benefit the wolves. Not being sure what the optimal play is doesn't equate to waffling

Re: reads - at this point I don't care how you feel about my reads. Nothing will please you here so I'm just going to keep doing my thing

[Titus]

Dunn, did LLD tell you that this is the right time to buss?

I'd do Dunn as well but my health can't take fighting with LLD.

[Black]

For instance, Dunn is defensive is not a read.

This was literally one of my first thoughts when I was first reading through the thread. It's a read even if you don't like it

[Black]

Part of me feels like this was too strong of positions for Town Black this soon

None of these positions are even that strong though

[Firebringer]

My reads:
{Pink Ball, Titus} -obv town
{GIF, Kuribo}
{DragonEater70, BlueSnek}
{TheStatusQuo} -Switch with Black if wrong
{Save the Dragons,Drixx} ---Null Line
{Dunnstral, Black} - scum lean
{Frozen Angel}
{Feysal}

[Titus]

For instance, Dunn is defensive is not a read.

This was literally one of my first thoughts when I was first reading through the thread. It's a read even if you don't like it

No. A read takes a stance.

[Black]

EBWOP: nvm FB I see your clarification

[Black]

No. A read takes a stance.

Then we have different definition of the word "read". I read Dunn's behavior. I didn't take a stance because it was the first thing I read from him. Would it seriously have been better if I said "I'm not sure how this makes me feel" ??

[Black]

What even is that argument Titus? Not all reads come with definitive stances. Like what

[Titus]

No. A read takes a stance.

Then we have different definition of the word "read". I read Dunn's behavior. I didn't take a stance because it was the first thing I read from him. Would it seriously have been better if I said "I'm not sure how this makes me feel" ??

No. And that alone isn't a problem. Almost all of your posting was "observations" rather than reads.

[BlueSnakelet]

My reads:
{Pink Ball, Titus} -obv town
{GIF, Kuribo}
{DragonEater70, BlueSnek}
{TheStatusQuo} -Switch with Black if wrong
{Save the Dragons,Drixx} ---Null Line
{Dunnstral, Black} - scum lean
{Frozen Angel}
{Feysal}

Any reason to not include Klick?

[Black]

No. A read takes a stance.

Then we have different definition of the word "read". I read Dunn's behavior. I didn't take a stance because it was the first thing I read from him. Would it seriously have been better if I said "I'm not sure how this makes me feel" ??

No. And that alone isn't a problem. Almost all of your posting was "observations" rather than reads.

Then maybe you were too busy calling my 298 a scummy over-explanation to even digest it?

[Firebringer]

My reads:
{Pink Ball, Titus} -obv town
{GIF, Kuribo}
{DragonEater70, BlueSnek}
{TheStatusQuo} -Switch with Black if wrong
{Save the Dragons,Drixx} ---Null Line
{Dunnstral, Black} - scum lean
{Frozen Angel}
{Feysal}

Any reason to not include Klick?

i forgot Klick.
Alisae says strong town, I am at null with klick.

[Black]

This is how I play the game. I make observations, interact with people, and push things when I see them

[Titus]

No. A read takes a stance.

Then we have different definition of the word "read". I read Dunn's behavior. I didn't take a stance because it was the first thing I read from him. Would it seriously have been better if I said "I'm not sure how this makes me feel" ??

No. And that alone isn't a problem. Almost all of your posting was "observations" rather than reads.

Then maybe you were too busy calling my 298 a scummy over-explanation to even digest it?

No. It's an overexplaination saying nothing

[Dunnstral]

Dunn, did LLD tell you that this is the right time to buss?

You are free to engage with the points we've made if you'd like.