In post 1206, Frozen Angel wrote:I wanna believe I'm a good scum player. I would definitely try and appear solving when scum too
whats you're point?
Why do you keep pushing me to read your logical thought process that you spent hours crafting as a means of determining whether you're town or scum, when you know that's not actually an effective means of solving for your alignment?
I don't care about your read on me per say. If you wanted to engage with me and fix that read I was up for it and I proved it with how I approached you when you dropped the meta read.
but I wont let you say I don't believe my read on dragon eater/drixx or the rest as a way to discredit my efforts just so you can justify your lazy shitty vote on me.
I'm not interested in the person I suspect 'fixing' my read through careful crafting of logical arguments that they spend hours making sure they can justify. That doesn't correlate with your alignment. You could do that as town or as scum.
In post 1249, Thestatusquo wrote:
Part of the distinction to me is that caught scum emotion DOES frequently feel fake to me. In the sense that they know they are bad so everything is filtered through that lens. Even if a scum player is legitimately frustrated by being "caught for the wrong reasons" as people say there is always that in the background.
For what its worth I tend to think caught for the wrong reasons is kind of a bullshit thing in general.
In my experience town gets just as mad if not more mad when they are being scum read for reasons they think are illegitimate than scum does and in fact it happens more often because town is way more prone to think people scum reading them is illegitimate because they know they're town.
More generalities
These things can be applied to the person you're talking about
If i wanted to rage on town on my wagon for being lazy I would rage on titus who literally never dropped my name more than 3 times in entire game and none of them were actually about me and more about my wagon.
I don't give a shit if you just want to drop a random vote that you or no one else will get anything out of. I'm here to find scum and to respond to people who think I'm scum and fix their impression if they engage with me.
The reason I raged at you and thestatusqueue is the shining discredit of my efforts in such blatant way not cause you dropped a vote on me or scum read me and I stand by my justified rage till you actually decide to engage with my reads or take back your random shitty discrediting judgement of them
In post 1243, Pink Ball wrote:
I'm not shading you... Could you start reading my posts without being so defensive?
Yeah, but I'm usually going to get a little defensive when I feel like someone is misrepping me. You made it sound like I was trying to shut down all conversation about Dragon's activity when all I was doing was pointing out that his absence isn't AI. You bringing up the fact that he was here 8 hours before he siteflaked doesn't change anything to me and I'm curious if it does for you
It doesn't, I'm scumreading DragonEater before this was brought up, and I want discussion about DragonEater to keep going and yes, your post felt like you were trying to shut down discussion about DragonEater as a whole.
In post 1249, Thestatusquo wrote:
Part of the distinction to me is that caught scum emotion DOES frequently feel fake to me. In the sense that they know they are bad so everything is filtered through that lens. Even if a scum player is legitimately frustrated by being "caught for the wrong reasons" as people say there is always that in the background.
For what its worth I tend to think caught for the wrong reasons is kind of a bullshit thing in general.
In my experience town gets just as mad if not more mad when they are being scum read for reasons they think are illegitimate than scum does and in fact it happens more often because town is way more prone to think people scum reading them is illegitimate because they know they're town.
More generalities
These things can be applied to the person you're talking about
Ok but I'm trying to explain why I feel this way about a specific person? And why I think the emotion feeling real to me matters? Things that are generally true are not universally true that is a true statement but I do not think I am making that claim but generally trying to explain my background experience that is making me react in a certain way. Mafia is probabilistic and in fact you know this.
In post 1206, Frozen Angel wrote:I wanna believe I'm a good scum player. I would definitely try and appear solving when scum too
whats you're point?
Why do you keep pushing me to read your logical thought process that you spent hours crafting as a means of determining whether you're town or scum, when you know that's not actually an effective means of solving for your alignment?
I don't care about your read on me per say. If you wanted to engage with me and fix that read I was up for it and I proved it with how I approached you when you dropped the meta read.
but I wont let you say I don't believe my read on dragon eater/drixx or the rest as a way to discredit my efforts just so you can justify your lazy shitty vote on me.
I'm not interested in the person I suspect 'fixing' my read through careful crafting of logical arguments that they spend hours making sure they can justify. That doesn't correlate with your alignment. You could do that as town or as scum.
Is that wrong?
Yes from an uninformed mindset here, they can think I'm scum too. like every other slot in game. people can do stuff as town or scum. there is literally nothing in game a scum is not capable of doing too. NO action or reaction is town or scum only. they are either belonging to a town or a scum mindset when you see a pattern of behavior that make more sense in either side.
But you accused me of something here and you don't wanna talk about that at all and are dodging my questions about it
You said I don't believe in my reads. prove that or gtfo with your random shit.
and "I don't wanna engage with you about your reads cause they wont help me determine if you believe them or not" is not an acceptable out of this argument.
I wont let you discredit everything I do by just saying you don't believe them. and then everyone going to do their own thing and their happy place
In post 1252, Frozen Angel wrote:
If i wanted to rage on town on my wagon for being lazy I would rage on titus who literally never dropped my name more than 3 times in entire game and none of them were actually about me and more about my wagon.
I don't give a shit if you just want to drop a random vote that you or no one else will get anything out of. I'm here to find scum and to respond to people who think I'm scum and fix their impression if they engage with me.
The reason I raged at you and thestatusqueue is the shining discredit of my efforts in such blatant way not cause you dropped a vote on me or scum read me and I stand by my justified rage till you actually decide to engage with my reads or take back your random shitty discrediting judgement of them
What should I do if I want to get an accurate read on you?
Like what you are saying about what I'm saying can literally apply to anything, Klick. I could claim you saying the posting feels "soulless" is a generality in much the same way you are saying that I am saying that I think the emotion feels real to me and why that matters.
You keep tacitly acknowledging this when you say things like "this correlates or doesn't correlate to alignment."
I'm doing literally the exact same thing and trying to look at things that I think correlate to alignment and then explaining why I think they do.
You are then dismissing them in a way that feels incredibly hand waivy and shade-ing and I have a hard time figuring out why town you would do that? Do you not want me to correctly read FA for some reason?
In post 1253, Pink Ball wrote:
It doesn't, I'm scumreading DragonEater before this was brought up, and I want discussion about DragonEater to keep going and yes, your post felt like you were trying to shut down discussion about DragonEater as a whole.
I don't believe you believe this. I talked about Dragon a lot in my Fey Iso right before my siteflake post so I'm trying to understand why you interpreted this as me not wanting anyone to talk about the Dragon slot
In post 1249, Thestatusquo wrote:
Part of the distinction to me is that caught scum emotion DOES frequently feel fake to me. In the sense that they know they are bad so everything is filtered through that lens. Even if a scum player is legitimately frustrated by being "caught for the wrong reasons" as people say there is always that in the background.
For what its worth I tend to think caught for the wrong reasons is kind of a bullshit thing in general.
In my experience town gets just as mad if not more mad when they are being scum read for reasons they think are illegitimate than scum does and in fact it happens more often because town is way more prone to think people scum reading them is illegitimate because they know they're town.
More generalities
These things can be applied to the person you're talking about
Ok but I'm trying to explain why I feel this way about a specific person? And why I think the emotion feeling real to me matters? Things that are generally true are not universally true that is a true statement but I do not think I am making that claim but generally trying to explain my background experience that is making me react in a certain way. Mafia is probabilistic and in fact you know this.
So what the fuck is this shit?
I think Mafia CAN be probabilistic but it's much more effective to avoid most probabilistic conclusions and basically treat it as non-probabilistic
This is probably why I often get lots of townreads and few scumreads!
Anyway that's not the point
What about FA makes you think the emotions being real is relevant to her alignment? Because I came to basically the opposite conclusion
In post 1252, Frozen Angel wrote:
If i wanted to rage on town on my wagon for being lazy I would rage on titus who literally never dropped my name more than 3 times in entire game and none of them were actually about me and more about my wagon.
I don't give a shit if you just want to drop a random vote that you or no one else will get anything out of. I'm here to find scum and to respond to people who think I'm scum and fix their impression if they engage with me.
The reason I raged at you and thestatusqueue is the shining discredit of my efforts in such blatant way not cause you dropped a vote on me or scum read me and I stand by my justified rage till you actually decide to engage with my reads or take back your random shitty discrediting judgement of them
What should I do if I want to get an accurate read on you?
I don't know
I never tried sorting a frozen angel in my life.
But that is still you dodging my questions regarding what you accused me of.
what is me being soulless and how you determined it? what reads do you believe I posted and why you think I don't believe them?
In post 1257, Thestatusquo wrote:
Like what you are saying about what I'm saying can literally apply to anything, Klick. I could claim you saying the posting feels "soulless" is a generality in much the same way you are saying that I am saying that I think the emotion feels real to me and why that matters.
You keep tacitly acknowledging this when you say things like "this correlates or doesn't correlate to alignment."
I'm doing literally the exact same thing and trying to look at things that I think correlate to alignment and then explaining why I think they do.
You are then dismissing them in a way that feels incredibly hand waivy and shade-ing and I have a hard time figuring out why town you would do that? Do you not want me to correctly read FA for some reason?
I think my last post effectively responds to this post as well
If you think the general 'the emotion is real' talking points apply to FA specifically, why do you think that's the case?
In post 1249, Thestatusquo wrote:
Part of the distinction to me is that caught scum emotion DOES frequently feel fake to me. In the sense that they know they are bad so everything is filtered through that lens. Even if a scum player is legitimately frustrated by being "caught for the wrong reasons" as people say there is always that in the background.
For what its worth I tend to think caught for the wrong reasons is kind of a bullshit thing in general.
In my experience town gets just as mad if not more mad when they are being scum read for reasons they think are illegitimate than scum does and in fact it happens more often because town is way more prone to think people scum reading them is illegitimate because they know they're town.
More generalities
These things can be applied to the person you're talking about
Ok but I'm trying to explain why I feel this way about a specific person? And why I think the emotion feeling real to me matters? Things that are generally true are not universally true that is a true statement but I do not think I am making that claim but generally trying to explain my background experience that is making me react in a certain way. Mafia is probabilistic and in fact you know this.
So what the fuck is this shit?
I think Mafia CAN be probabilistic but it's much more effective to avoid most probabilistic conclusions and basically treat it as non-probabilistic
This is probably why I often get lots of townreads and few scumreads!
Anyway that's not the point
What about FA makes you think the emotions being real is relevant to her alignment? Because I came to basically the opposite conclusion
Because I think town is generally way more likely to react like this and feel real while doing so than scum is and I don't have any specific experience with FA to suggest they are a special case. You can call that a generality but that is how I scum hunt.
In post 1253, Pink Ball wrote:
It doesn't, I'm scumreading DragonEater before this was brought up, and I want discussion about DragonEater to keep going and yes, your post felt like you were trying to shut down discussion about DragonEater as a whole.
I don't believe you believe this. I talked about Dragon a lot in my Fey Iso right before my siteflake post so I'm trying to understand why you interpreted this as me not wanting anyone to talk about the Dragon slot
Let me rephrase, I think I understand what's happening:
I don't believe you did it on purpose, but with your post you could shut down a conversation that was worth having.
I'm not talking about you or your intentions in particular, sorry, I said that it felt like that you were trying to do that but that's not what I thought.
But you know better than anyone else the choices you make when you're town vs when you're scum. What do you do about making arguments that you KNOW aren't true when you're scum because you have to push falsehoods? What is authentic in your town game that you notice you're unable to replicate when you're scum? Etc. Etc.
Those things are way more relevant to sorting your alignment than getting into pointless arguments about the weeds.
But that is still you dodging my questions regarding what you accused me of.
what is me being soulless and how you determined it? what reads do you believe I posted and why you think I don't believe them?
I don't know it's a feeling I had reading your posts and I haven't deeply analysed it. When I read your analysis of your reads it is missing a level of *belief* that is observable in your posting, because it's all logical arguments and only logical arguments without your own assumptions or perspective. It's a holistic point that applies to all of your deeply-exained reads and not the nitty-gritty details that you want to discuss.
In post 1249, Thestatusquo wrote:
Part of the distinction to me is that caught scum emotion DOES frequently feel fake to me. In the sense that they know they are bad so everything is filtered through that lens. Even if a scum player is legitimately frustrated by being "caught for the wrong reasons" as people say there is always that in the background.
For what its worth I tend to think caught for the wrong reasons is kind of a bullshit thing in general.
In my experience town gets just as mad if not more mad when they are being scum read for reasons they think are illegitimate than scum does and in fact it happens more often because town is way more prone to think people scum reading them is illegitimate because they know they're town.
I always got around this by just working myself into a raw frenzy for real. That's why I hated when people would accuse me of "fake rage." Fake rage isn't a thing that usually happens, and it was never artificial with me. My *motivations* were sometimes illegitimate, but I would definitely crank myself up to eleven until I got to the point I couldn't return. Like I'd be full of shit about something, hand shaking while I screamed at somebody, then I'd be in the scum PT telling Katsuki how I was so pissed off I just wanted to replace out. Like, it didn't matter that the *initial* reason for the irritation wasn't town, I'd open up the floodgate and it'd just be thunderdome from there. And then there'd be the other times where it was personal fury instead of "lol kuribo mad" anger, which as mastina once pointed out were two very different things, the latter being cartoonish and comical, the former being an ugly toxic thing that made everyone uncomfortable.
In post 1249, Thestatusquo wrote:
Part of the distinction to me is that caught scum emotion DOES frequently feel fake to me. In the sense that they know they are bad so everything is filtered through that lens. Even if a scum player is legitimately frustrated by being "caught for the wrong reasons" as people say there is always that in the background.
For what its worth I tend to think caught for the wrong reasons is kind of a bullshit thing in general.
In my experience town gets just as mad if not more mad when they are being scum read for reasons they think are illegitimate than scum does and in fact it happens more often because town is way more prone to think people scum reading them is illegitimate because they know they're town.
I always got around this by just working myself into a raw frenzy for real. That's why I hated when people would accuse me of "fake rage." Fake rage isn't a thing that usually happens, and it was never artificial with me. My *motivations* were sometimes illegitimate, but I would definitely crank myself up to eleven until I got to the point I couldn't return. Like I'd be full of shit about something, hand shaking while I screamed at somebody, then I'd be in the scum PT telling Katsuki how I was so pissed off I just wanted to replace out. Like, it didn't matter that the *initial* reason for the irritation wasn't town, I'd open up the floodgate and it'd just be thunderdome from there. And then there'd be the other times where it was personal fury instead of "lol kuribo mad" anger, which as mastina once pointed out were two very different things, the latter being cartoonish and comical, the former being an ugly toxic thing that made everyone uncomfortable.
In post 1263, Thestatusquo wrote:Because I think town is generally way more likely to react like this and feel real while doing so than scum is and I don't have any specific experience with FA to suggest they are a special case. You can call that a generality but that is how I scum hunt.
My impression is that Frozen Angel starts reacting in a more emotionally-charged way when she feels like someone isn't engaging with her how she wants them to engage with her. I think she does this as either alignment.
In post 1263, Thestatusquo wrote:Because I think town is generally way more likely to react like this and feel real while doing so than scum is and I don't have any specific experience with FA to suggest they are a special case. You can call that a generality but that is how I scum hunt.
My impression is that Frozen Angel starts reacting in a more emotionally-charged way when she feels like someone isn't engaging with her how she wants them to engage with her. I think she does this as either alignment.
Ok but I play a lot by tone and I think there is usually a marked difference in tone between how town expresses emotion and how scum does.
